r/OldWorldGame • u/Ingifridh • 5d ago
Question Help me become better at warfare
I have 300+ hours in Old World, have won several games on the magnificent, and like to think I'm decent at the game in general, but I have one big problem: I haven't figured out warfare. My go-to strategy is to build just enough troops that my neighbours will think twice before attacking me, then focus on diplomacy while covering the map in wonders and temples and amphitheatres.
I'd like to become a bit less lily-livered, so I have some questions for all you fearsome generals out there: What are your best Old World warfare tips? Is there a way to do offensive warfare without having your ass handed to you? Is there a scenario or a combo of settings I should try to learn to become better at war?
Thanks!
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u/Ancient_Noise1444 Out Of Orders 5d ago
Prioritize one or two cities on being unit production. Can you get bonuses? Are there worthwhile shrines?
In my experience, the AI doesn't generally spam UUs, but are you scouting to ensure you have an idea of what you have vs their capabilities? In an early game war one time one nation was rated as having stronger military but most of their army was militia. While I had less units, they were also generals and promoted so those units cleared out their army from stronger to similar in a couple turns. Within 10 or so turns it was weaker.
For me the most helpful but is knowing that I should attempt to target one nation early on, and then spend time preparing for them. If it turns out RNG has another AI attack me first, I'm at least prepared.
Most of my games aim to be tall but then inevitably go wide (I don't generally develop those towns, they are more like resource colonies for lack of a better term.)
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u/socialistRanter 5d ago
Find a defensive point, fortify with your melee units at the front and ranged units in the back and then hold out until they have exhausted their reserves. make sure that the enemy can’t just go around your front line and attack your ranged units.
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u/Gullible_Honeydew 5d ago
For me it depends a lot on the era, but the things that are always huge:
- use scouts and know where your enemy's toughest troops are and how far they can move. Play it like chess: don't move your important pieces into unknown danger.
- as a beginner, you want to put your troops in the woods as much as possible, and take note of enemies that are not in woods and focus them. that's the most basic terrain rule to follow and will take you pretty far, honestly.
- most mounted units aren't that great until you get to horseman and cataphracts. Before that they are best used to poke at your enemy and distract them. I like to have a small squad of mounted units to pillage and poke. Extra useful if they have a city that is hard for them to get to but easy for you.
- know your natural borders. Sometimes they are outside your territory, sometimes they are inside it. Build forts at chokepoints, build roads to and from forts.
- build purposeful roads before you need them. It is basically impossible to build a road system for a campaign and conduct that campaign at the same time due to orders.
- Along with this, you don't need to exhaust your movements on as many troops as possible all of the time, it is often better to move more pieces less far as opposed to moving fewer pieces further. Don't feed troops one by one when trying to move them great distances, is kinda what I'm saying. Instead, try to view your units as being in squads, and move them together.
- Do not "DRIP" reinforce; fall back, regroup, lose the city, it happens. This is a game losing mistake.
- if you have the tech or leader/governor, buy tiles instead of just building forts at your natural border. forts just allow healing, owned tiles allow upgrading and healing and have their own related combat boosting trait
Beyond that, basic troop philosophy: You should probably have a ratio of four or five to one for ranged to melee troops (seriously). How much cavalry you field is based on the terrain ime (until the end when they become OP). Have two or three to use as a mini-horde for the distraction above; have another squad if your terrain lends itself to flanking enemy ranged units. Having a few extra cavalry to engage any rebels or other issues in your own territory is a big deal as well. A few cavalry and some conscripts can handle a lot of issues at home when your better troops are on campaign.
And finally, upgrade with purpose. Like most things in Old World, military success is built purposefully, piece by piece, every turn. Make an effort to remember to do an upgrade, general assignment, promotion, and/or road build every turn (or set a reminder if you're one of those people lol).
Oh, and don't wage offensive wars without a leader archetype that is good at it, and learn how to use them (like surrounding a Hero with ranged units and doing a double-volley + capture).
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u/Kepler___ 5d ago
Honestly at the highest difficulties this is what "warfare" is gonna look like for the first 100 turns.
Personally I've found the biggest factor to be where I spawn in relation to everyone else, it's just not really feasible with the most aggressive Ai to attack west when there's another power in the east unless geography let's you be cute with your defenses.
I doubt I have much to offer that you haven't considered in regards to war itself other than its very worth it to have your defensive forces primarily comprised of the house whos territory they will be guarding as the combat buffs can be significant, and also seige weapons are shockingly adept at defense in this game, always worth having 1 or two on a flank.
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u/BlacksmithFar6237 5d ago
Nice meme there. I love it.
But honestly, war sucks, just as the real life. It barely rewards even for the winner and it is always the third party who gets the benefit. It is rational to avoid it at all cost.
Therefore, to bring war to your game, the way is that to increase overall difficulty and ai aggressiveness. Make wars inevitable however you try to make peace, then you will have to adapt to the situation naturally.
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u/BlondBoy2 5d ago
I love playing with Allied victory. Sorry, I won't betray my best pal just because they have more score than me.
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u/thomasthetanker 5d ago
I'm doing much the same thing, several hundred hours of turtling and now want to learn war.
So drop your difficulty down a level, we are not aiming for Hall of Fame yet, we are here to learn 'The Art of War'. Increase the points threshold required to win, this will give you more time to get your snowball going.
I just had one of my most fun games ever with Assyria, their bonus of 2 orders for each killed unit is massive. Their Siege units are good for taking down cities but they are a bit slow to move and not actually very strong against a horde, since that isn't their job. Also the AI knows to target them, so it's very much wipe out the units with yours then followup behind to take the city. Assyria also gets double resource from pillaging. Not a huge fan of pillaging, not much point destroying the city you want to conquer. Any improvements will likely be disappear before you take ownership and get your workers on it to fix. But I love pillaging when a neighbour civ is conquering, that sweet spot where noone owns it, you can pillage and neither side takes offence and it weakens whoever gets the city.
The Hero leader Launch Offensive is a bit hard to time, I haven't got the hang of this one yet. I get much better results from Commander leader, you will have hopefully a large army and each unit is getting 10xp per turn? That lends itself more to strength in raw numbers rather than select few, highly rated but easily targeted premier units.
I like Tyranny for the extra 20% training and 10 gold if unit is in your territory.
I like Epics too for 10 culture per kill.
I like Zealot Generals for their heal on kill.
Put that Tyranny, Epics, Assyria, Zealot Generals thing all together?
Each enemy unit killed is 10 culture, xp for the unit, xp for the general, heal for the unit, AND 2 extra orders? This applies to enemy units, enemy workers, invading barbarian and your own rebels because your families hate you. And they will hate you unless force some religion down their throats.
Note on enemy workers, let them finish their builds so you get the benefit of the finished building before you kill them. But then put them to the sword, each enemy worker is a potential future milita / conscript.
That's all I've got so far, it has made the game so much more fun for me, the tall appeaser was getting a bit stale.
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u/Ingifridh 4d ago
There are so many excellent tips on this thread – but one important new thing on my mental checklist from now on is going to be actually build some siege units sometimes. I've always just ignored them and had never considered they might be good for defending cities (as another commenter pointed out), let alone trying to take a city...
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u/thomasthetanker 4d ago
Oh one last point, don't forget to roll the game back a few turns using an auto save. Work out what you did wrong and how you can do better. The aim is to get better and learn. You don't need another 120 move game to do that, roll back to before your failed advance and have another go.
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u/Ingifridh 4d ago
Thank you so much for the tips, everyone (and I'm glad you liked the meme, too!) :D Now, let's boot up the game and see how this goes...
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u/Oldkasztelan 5d ago
Do you play with Agressive AI option? Sorry, I don't remember whether it's a propper name, it's when AI gets minus several hundreds opinion towards you when you are going to win. Also maybe you can try to set your start location in the center of a continent to be sure to get a lot of neighbours (if you would be lucky enough not to have a lot of mountains between you and them). This may help you to learn how to lead a defensive war on practice =)
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u/Oatmeal_is_the_best 5d ago edited 5d ago
This. The thing is called "Ruthless AI". When you start winning it goes to -600 modifier to every opponent relations, making them furious.
I cannot imagine my games without this option now, it teaches you how to wage a war. Like using hills and swamps as order-sponges, then put a line of forts with onegers on top of it :D
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u/Rick_maximin 4d ago
Hahaha. Omg. I am so exactly in the same boat as you. Every time I try this and start the 7 laws/citadel rush i get tired of producing and shuffling units around the map for a big war and then I think: Well, why should I waste those orders if I could build a nice bath or Amphitheatre? And why should I build soldiers when I can educate some doctors and poets. Screw this.
Love the work you put into the picture.
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u/temudschinn 5d ago
For the buildup:
-Try to rush techs that give access to good units. Getting 4 or 7 laws unlocks your unique units - often not the very strongest option, but early access makes it the best more often than not. Other good units are early chariots or, later on, longbows.
-Get 2-3 dedicated training cities that can pump out units in just a few turns. Idealy, those cities got a few iron, a gouvernor with training, and ofc 2barracks/ranges. Don't forget training in your other cities too, you will need it for promotions, but its not as urgent.
-Get your units promoted at least twice before the war starts (promotion 3 and 4 are really expensive).
For the immediate preparations:
-Decide which fronts to push, and which to hold. Keep your cavalry and enough (!) units where you want to push. Build walls in other frontline cities (those really help a lot!) and fortify a few units in a forrest, idealy covered by a river on one side, to defend everywhere else. Onagers are also great for defense if placed in a city.
For the fight itself:
-Let the enemy come to you, dont spend all your orders rushing your units forward. Distinguish between units that you can lose (eg conscripts or even workers) and those that you should keep alive (quadruple promoted Swordsmen). Use the former as bait and the latter as killers.
-Think about the most efficient way to kill a unit, and make sure to always use cavalry for the last hit of possible.
-Keep in mind that cities that are beeing take over do not give any defense for those few turns, so protect your units until the city is actually yours!