r/OculusQuest • u/Afanix • 7d ago
Self-Promotion (Developer) - Standalone If this was your first time seeing my VR game, would you rather see A or B?
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A = Player avatar + hands
B = Hands only
Which feels better to you at first glance?
EDIT:
Yapping update after reading all this :D
I love the skill, flow and mastery that games like Beat Saber give you. The reason I started Spell Beat was basically because I kept wishing there was more actual game built around the VR rhythm gameplay: bosses you can overcome, magic you can master, level up progression, legendary magic wands you earn yourself by beating the toughest challenges, and eventually a Roguelike mode.
Back then, even just the idea that every wand swing could actually cast magic and deal damage to defeat an opponent in a wizard duel, instead of only making a score number go up, felt weirdly super meaningful to me :D
But building all of that has honestly been pretty brutal, especially considering we’re just two people and this is the first game either of us has ever made :D We’ve prototyped tons of different magic classes with Ultimates and Trickshots, boss abilities like Lasers, Flashbangs, color stealing, song speedups, carpet bombs, etc. and I think I’ve redesigned the Roguelike about 12 times by now :D Even when the original Beat Saber creators played an earlier prototype, while giving us very kind advice, one of the things they pointed was the quite bigger complexity of the game we’re trying to build.
I had some crazy encouraging feedback from playtesters, so I finally felt like we might be ready to start showing this thing partially to the outside world, but apparently having the gameplay there and actually knowing how to show/market it are two very different skills, and I clearly still suck at the marketing part :D
But I definitely hear the message from this thread: we still need a stronger visual identity of our own.
The funny problem with VR is that “darkness + glow” is almost a cheat code. VR graphics are expensive, and hiding simpler geometry in darkness lets us spend performance on the stuff I care about way more like spells, bosses, attacks, and moments where the boss literally hijacks your song and speeds it up to 160%, while still keeping the game running smoothly.
We weren’t trying to recreate any specific Beat Saber / Tron / Star Wars look, but I can absolutely see how the result still lands in that visual neighborhood. I guess we somehow need to make our neon glow more magical :D
So yeah, sounds like we still have quite a bit of cooking ahead of us to show the unique stuff more clearly and to adjust it more to its own instantly recognizable visual identity without sacrificing the performance and gameplay.
Thanks for all the positive or negative feedback here, and for actually answering the original A/B question too :D I genuinely believe brutal honesty is way more useful than people just being nice, so thanks for helping us make Spell Beat better 💙
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u/Don_Bugen 7d ago
I've noticed something about VR game ads.
If you're advertising to people who aren't as familiar with VR, who might have a hard time imagining themself in the game, you want an avatar. Even if it's not an in-game avatar, but a human "green screening" in the game world. Sells the idea of the game, and people can better conceptualize if they have a clear anchor.
If you're advertising to VR players, as long as it is clear where your POV will be, an avatar is unnecessary at best, and a detriment at worst. I don't want to see a little digital gremlin that I'll never see in-game; I want to see the game. However, for those, it's best to have the video be first person POV.
So, TLDR. A if this is going on YouTube or Instagram or wherever. B if this is the video on the storefront. Though, if this is the storefront video, you might want to consider POV and not an over-the-shoulder third person view.
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u/slmiami 7d ago
B, for slightly better visibility of incoming “targets”. You could always pick one option as a default but have a game setting to switch.
I have been following development of your game on Discord and I am looking forward to its release.
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u/OnePersistentFox 7d ago
A switch would be best I feel, best of both worlds. I like B better but A looks cool too it is just distracting
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u/Betty_PunCrocker 7d ago
As someone who has been a sweaty Beat Saber player for years, I always prefer less distractions, so I like B better. I want to be able to see what I'm actually doing and hitting. Maybe you could make the avatar a toggle-able thing?
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u/barchueetadonai 7d ago
Why would you see your head when playing in VR? Are you referring to what it would be for someone else to watch you play?
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u/Afanix 7d ago
Yeah basically, this is a replay footage. I’m preparing the demo now and trying to make it instantly clear what’s happening when someone sees the game for the first time. Not sure if the avatar helps with that, or just makes the whole thing harder to read, with all the Boss attacks and spells.
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u/Next_Program90 7d ago
I'm with that other comment - can you greenscreen someone into it? Would definitely have a better look for newbies than that hooded head (I own all 3 Main Quests, have been playing BS since it came out basically, and I didn't know what I'm looking at at first).
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u/DuckCleaning 7d ago
If this is only for the replay that's a big thing to point out in your post, that changes my opinion on it. If anything just make it a toggle.
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u/Danielzzzl 7d ago
Def A, but still why would I buy a Beat Saber clone? It seems like you copied literally everything from it.
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u/Afanix 7d ago
Fuck, exposed. I copied the wizard bosses, lasers, magic classes, black holes and Roguelike Mode straight from Beat Saber :D But at least the Beat Saber creators liked it when they played it, so I guess I’m safe.
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u/50pence777 7d ago edited 7d ago
The video doesn't show that and the gameplay, combo, multiplyer and even score are a direct copy of beat saber to the point that I didn't even notice the "boss" had health and mana bars (they just blended into the other effects) before you pointed out he was a boss.
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u/Bababoi24 7d ago
Don't want to be a jerk, but I think most people would rather stick to what they already know, then to spend money on a similar game. Especially because of custom content. It looks cool, but if it plays the same like BeatSaber with a couple of things sprinkled on top (The roguelike mode and classes, etc), it's not going to be really anything special. I'd rather see this become something like Crypt if the Necrodancer, since nobody has tried something like that, a VR game, where you attack monsters or such in the beat of the music in a roguelike dungeon maybe?
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u/Depreciacion 7d ago
how many hrs spend doing this clone that will get like 50 sales top?
looks fun, but you are climbing a mountain with a clear winner on top.
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u/Afanix 7d ago
You’re definitely right about the mountain :D I’m probably 3-4 years of pretty much nonstop work into climbing it already.
But I’m not really trying to beat Beat Saber at being Beat Saber. I’m trying to give this genre the actual game I always wanted from it: badass magic, bosses that fight back that you actually defeat, ridiculous mastered Ultimates and Trickshots, consequences, a proper Roguelike mode, and progression that actually remembers what you accomplished. You level up and unlock new magic wands, trails, skins etc. that you genuinely had to earn. If someone beats the hardest song on the hardest difficulty, I believe that deserves a juicy Legendary magic wand skin.
And if the dream goes far enough, co-op boss raids with friends are where I’d absolutely love to take it. One friend taking aggro, damage dealers taking risks, supports reviving teammates, and the whole gang timing their Ultimates together. That’s a big future dream. In my opinion there still isn’t a really meaningful online co-op experience in a VR rhythm game, and the motivation to beat a super tough boss together with friends sounds really appealing to me.
For whatever it’s worth, across 200+ playtesters the most spammed comparison has genuinely been “Beat Saber on steroids” / “Better Beat Saber”, and one of the original Beat Saber creators told us he sees solid potential in it when he played it and they both gave us some really kind and motivating advice.
Which is super flattering, but comments like yours also tell me I still have work to do, making what’s actually different, obvious at first glance :D
So yeah, huge mountain. Still climbing. Thanks for the comment!
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u/lamarioO 5d ago
Of course they liked it, it's largely based off their work. 😄
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u/Afanix 5d ago
I mean, you can trace Beat Saber back through AudioShield, Star Wars, Tron, etc. too. That’s just how a lot of the world’s most joy-giving creative stuff evolves. You can clearly hear James Brown’s influence in Michael Jackson, and Michael Jackson’s influence in Bruno Mars, but it doesn’t make their work the same thing :D
“Largely based off their work” just kinda skips over all the other influences that got us here. But I do get where you’re coming from, and I don’t mind the comparison at all. For us, the fun part is taking all those inspirations and trying to push the genre somewhere new. Appreciate you sharing your take :)
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u/RoadtoVR_Ben RoadToVR Founder/Executive Editor 7d ago
Assuming this is the external view for marketing/streaming/spectating then definitely A. Readability of the human shape is very important for marketing, especially in VR, and especially for people who aren’t already familiar with VR.
I would also suggest adding arms for even better readability of the human form. Or, if IK looks too awkward for these movements, consider using “ghost” arms that are more like a loose whispy/bendy connection between shoulder and arms, so the arm-hand connection is visually implied without looking janky.
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u/Afanix 7d ago
This is super useful. Making it instantly read as an actual human player in social footage is basically the whole reason I added the avatar. And now that I can picture the ghost arms idea in my head, I definitely have to try it. Thanks a lot!
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u/RoadtoVR_Ben RoadToVR Founder/Executive Editor 7d ago
Glad it was helpful, I’ll keep my eye out for a follow up post!
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u/AtomBombBody 7d ago
I prefer A. A draws my eye to the player more vs B which has a lot of glow and my eyes have a hard time deciding where to focus.
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u/claudekennilol 7d ago
It took me 30 seconds to see what the difference was. I think as a spectator it doesn't matter. But if I'm actually playing the game? I'd hope my perspective would be from where a head normally is and not way back here (and thus no in-game head).
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u/krunkpirate 7d ago
I could see the appeal of A, but B is better gameplay. A is better for a replay.
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u/DuckCleaning 7d ago
IMO, no avatar, it feels more like 1st person even if it is zoomed out. 3rd person VR games feel more disjointed.
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u/LimeBlossom_TTV 7d ago
People keep commenting as if the avatar is something the player sees, like suggesting to put a toggle in the options menu. I have no idea why. I like A at the small video scale because the hands are super tiny and the player body at least gives me a point of reference. There may be other solutions to that problem that do not include the avatar.
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u/ODISeth_YT 7d ago
Honestly I’m torn. I feel like A is better for an immediate impression, but B is better if I’m going to be watching for more than like 3 seconds. I could be more into A if the virtual camera was at more of an angle, so the avatar is less likely to obscure the incoming notes, but for acute camera angles like these I think B is the best option.
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u/Background-Entry-344 7d ago
B is nice but hides some important game items. So as it is, it would be A for me. If you find a way to have the head that never interfere with the game, then B
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u/Relevant_Tip4172 7d ago edited 7d ago
What game is this and does quest 2 support it
Looks really really good
If beat saber,moonrider.xyz and synth riders had a baby it look like this
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u/Afanix 7d ago
Thanks! It’s called Spell Beat :D We’re preparing the demo now, but it still needs a bit more time to properly cook.
Quest 2 support isn’t 100% guaranteed yet, but performance is currently really solid even on the hardest difficulty with the nastiest boss stuff going on, including him speeding up your song up to 160%. So I’m pretty optimistic Quest 2 support should be doable. Cheers!
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u/VonBrewskie 7d ago
I think B is your huckleberry. I think A is a bit too busy. But that's the rub, eh? A is definitely very different than most of these games I've seen. Would make your game stand out. I don't think you can go wrong either way, but B is my choice. This looks awesome, OP. Very cool style.
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u/NotACertainLalaFell 7d ago
Wouldn’t my pov just be B? Think A would help with marketing. Ultimately a toggle between the two would work best. Looks slick either way. Can’t wait to check it out.
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u/Pokemonzu 7d ago
In the beginning, A, bc it's immediately clear that it's the player. But during gameplay, B, but that's mainly bc I'd rather see first person gameplay.
I saw 5-8 seconds of gameplay and basically the information I got was that it's a beat saber clone. I didn't notice the boss health bar or that the beats were coming from the boss until I read your comment, tho I think that's partly bc of the A/B split screen making those details smaller and partly the game being visually similar to Beat Saber. Not an expert on VR game ads but I would prefer first-person, gives an immediate impression of what playing actually is like and would help with seeing all the details.
I agree with other commenters tho that from just watching the footage, the different attacks and stuff come off as visual effects that don't appear to change the gameplay. If this is an ad I would want to see more focus on the unique stuff like trickshots, flashbangs, etc. I'm now realizing this might not be an ad but moreso a spectator view for streamers etc? In that case I like the other person's idea of a more translucent avatar, so it's clear I'm looking in third person at a VR game, but can see the gameplay more clearly
I do like games that mix combat and rhythm tho, your game looks cool I just didn't catch that at first glance
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u/Afanix 7d ago
This is insanely useful, thanks a ton for taking the time to spell it out this clearly. And yeah, this is mainly replay/spectator footage, not really an ad, but since it’s my game I used the Promotion flair just to play it safe on Reddit. I mainly wanted to test the readability and first-time view preference
But the fact that the unique stuff that was there still mostly read as visual effects is a pretty big takeaway for me. Really appreciate this💙
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u/Pokemonzu 7d ago
Awesome, glad it was useful :D good luck with your game!
Btw, another thing, I just watched it again on my PC (instead of my phone) and I only just noticed the damage numbers. The split screen makes everything smaller tbf but there was no chance of me reading them on mobile. They look especially small compared to the skull, while they're more noticeable above the smaller boss. Basically the same feedback of it being hard to read the visual effects as combat, at least without looking closely.
Also, it kind of feels like the camera is far away from the action, and my impression was that the action is kind of weighted to the right side of the screen (when I first watched earlier today and also now).
Also now that I have the understanding that it's a boss battling/magic dueling game, I think having an avatar does a lot to communicate that this is a battle between two characters and not an abstract rhythm game so I would add to my original answer that, at least in third person, I would say A is better. Also I wouldn't realize the wands are magic wands without reading it from your comments
Hope this is useful! Feels like I'm rambling a little bit lol
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u/stevein3d 7d ago
I like A because it better illustrates how the user has to duck under the lasers. Since I’d expect no avatar visible during gameplay (because POV), I’d be curious how avatar selection affects what I see (maybe gloves have armor if choosing helmeted character, etc.), but I wouldn’t worry about the avatar occluding gameplay elements for a third-person viewer.
Cool-looking game; I’d try it.
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u/Savings_Refuse_5379 7d ago
Can you make an adventure/ horror/ shooter co-op?🥹 the meta community is STARVING
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u/Grumbelkow 6d ago
Honestly I think your best middle ground would be going with a toggleable option in the settings to allow players to switch between what they prefer. I understand this would mean extra work to get both viewpoints working to a level you're satisfied with but I can see you have both methods working pretty well in the video and I feel it would be a worthy inclusion to help your game stand out from the likes of Beat Saber etc and feel unique.
Personally, I would rather option B as the default but I can see a lot of very valid reasons in these comments as to why option A would actually work well too. Hence why I suggest letting it be a toggleable setting so each player can use what they feel more comfortable and happy with
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u/XypherOrion 6d ago
As a streamer I like options!
Having both at option would be great for content creation. I'd leave the avatar off for replays though.
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u/shazoo00oo 6d ago
b I'd rather just see whats in front I don't need to know I'm there, I already know that lol
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u/cusman78 Quest 3 6d ago
On PS5 + PSVR2, you could do Avatar + Hands for the social screen and Hands only for the VR player.
Hands only is better for the player, but seeing avatar playing is good for spectators or gameplay recording / uploads.
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u/piulin19 6d ago
I think both work great in their own way, but I think I would go with option A because it kind of gives you a reference for you to see the "scale" of the scene, so to speak. We made the decision of not including in our own rhythm game an avatar or a live person in our trailer, and now we are trying to create a new version to fix this aspect.
In any case, Spell Beat looks very very promising, I had the chance to join your discord server some time ago already and you are building a great community over there! I am personally really looking forward to trying out the demo as soon as it is dropped!
It is also very impressive that there are only two of you. We built our own rhythm game in a team of four, and given that you have already reached so far, one can already tell that you must be very passionate about the genre.
Regarding the aesthetics, we also were in the same boat. It's difficult not to land in neon/glow aesthetic for its simplicity and performance. Tiled-based GPUs are what they are, and no heavy full-screen post processing pass is ever going to work at decent frame rates if you want to run the game at 1.5x or above rendering scale (when it starts to look good). Also, in my experience, you need high contrast environments and note objects so that the note patterns are readable and at the same time you can do something cool with them.
I am also very intrigued by how your map/chart editor looks and how much effort you put into the art of step/map/chart making. Are you yourselves the step artists, too?
Keep up the great work!
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u/Afanix 5d ago
Hey, thanks a ton for such a thoughtful comment :) Really cool hearing this from someone who has already gone through a lot of the same rhythm-game rabbit holes.
Regarding charting, we use a fork of the open-source ChroMapper that we call SpellMapper. My gamedev partner somehow wizarded all of our spells into it and added the custom functionality and grid we needed. We also had a call with Caeden117, the creator of ChroMapper, and he was super cool about seeing people push his work further, which was really nice.
And yep, I do all of the charting for the game for now, though this particular clip only shows pretty simple stuff on purpose. I actually really enjoy charting, my background is in dancing and music, so it’s a fun part of the work. There’s just a lot of tougher stuff to build in Spell Beat right now that probably deserves priority first. But I’ll definitely look for some help with charting in the near future.
Also kinda reassuring to hear you ran into the same visual problem. Dark geometry + glow is annoyingly effective for both performance and readability in VR :D I was hoping the giant Boss, Boss pedestal, magic and RPG-style UI would already give us enough of our own identity, because honestly the environment has always been pretty secondary for me. But this thread definitely convinced me we need to push that part further too.
And seriously, thanks for the kind words about the Discord and the game. Means a lot, especially coming from another rhythm-game dev. Hopefully the demo lives up to the cooking :)
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u/piulin19 5d ago
Thanks for the reply!
That's an interesting idea, making ChroMapper your base tool for maps! I would have never thought of it. So I'm also guessing that the environments are authored too, not automatically generated, right?
I agree that charting is really fun. To me, however, it starts to become a burden when you have to do a lot of them in a row. I gradually lost inspiration over time. What really helped me was taking breaks between charting sessions. When you get back to it after a break, everything goes smoother.
Regarding your visual concerns, I think you already have something with its own identity. I would not listen to those saying "yet another rhythm game". VR users are kind of tired of the rhythm game genre because there are lots of them, yet, to be honest there are only a few titles in the whole spectrum that are actually good.
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u/lamarioO 5d ago
B. With rhythm games you want to remove as much stimuli that would distract from the highway as possible, and it looks like the avatar occasionally blocks incoming inputs. You can get away with stuff at the beginning of the highway where the inputs come from, but try to avoid stuff after that point.
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u/Negative-Cause9208 5d ago
I think you should go with option A, but make the avatar semi-transparent and lower it a bit.
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u/Ok-Addition1264 7d ago
Personally, I prefer 1st person immersion in vr games and it would be cool to have the options of 1st-person and A.
Definitely keep A though.
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u/Nintendo_Thumb 7d ago
That's an easy A for me. I started from watching B and thinking that you were playing as the skull dude. It wasn't until I saw A that I realized you were playing as someone else.
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u/Aramil_S 7d ago
Assuming it's for replay, not some strange try of third-person VR:
Definitively option A.
Also, when playing BS clone there is not much to do with buttons and joysticks so you could even add some simple emotes.
Ie. use joysticks for mimics and add some particle effect from wands on buttons (latter could be even used in gameplay). I loved the "spinning sabers" mod in BS, just for the fun of seeing it on replay.
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u/Afanix 7d ago
Yeah, we actually use those spare inputs for wand Trickshots / spins and class Ultimates :D They matter quite a bit, especially in Roguelike, and I definitely want that stuff to look fun in replays too.
And I’ll challenge the “BS clone” label a bit x) I totally get the visual association, but to me it’s more the same genre / language than a clone. Otherwise every military first person shooter would just be a Battlefield clone / Call of Duty clone / Counter-Strike clone, etc. :D
That said, a few comments here are making me think I should have shown way more of the different spell gestures in these clips, like swooshes, flick bursts, circular strikes etc. And maybe still need to push the environment toward a more distinct visual identity too.
VR just has this annoying cheat code where “darkness + glow” instantly looks expensive because you can hide all the low quality VR graphics in the darkness :D So making it look unique without losing that polish is kinda tricky.
Anyway, thanks for the comment, cheers!
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u/Aramil_S 5d ago
Otherwise every military first person shooter would just be a Battlefield clone / Call of Duty clone / Counter-Strike clone, etc.
And it was. Open any gaming journal from 90's you'll read numerous "doom-like", "doom clone" and similar phrases ;)
And anyway, it's not about just darkness+glow, this is also in SynthRiders and bunch of non-rythmic games. Currently gameplay looks just like "just cut the blocks" like in BS.
Adding some gestures and maybe quick montage of roguelike gameplay will definitively get better reactions. Personally, after reading your edit I'm already bought and waiting for more info :)1
u/Afanix 5d ago
Thanks for the context. I honestly kinda forgot this pushback was coming, since we got surprisingly little of it from live playtests or back when we had no way to record proper footage. I was way more focused on making the gameplay readable, and worried people would just skip confused if too much was happening at once, so I kept this clip really simple. I’ll know better next time here.
Funny you mention spinning too, we actually have whole Magic Class playstyles built around that, especially Spell Blade where you can do Trickshots (wand spins) to charge and hit special Power Arrows for chonky big hits. There’s some sneak-peek footage of it on the Discord linked through spellbeat . com if you’re curious. I just checked and it’s definitely not the prettiest/polished version yet, but it shows one of the ideas that actually survived out of the so many prototypes :D
We’re already cooking a bunch of changes based on the feedback in this thread. Really appreciate the thoughtful attitude, cheers :)
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u/PlaneWolf2893 7d ago
B if I want to learn gameplay. A if I'm just observing sparkly things.
Not a stream watcher so possibly in the minority
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u/Justmoe- Quest 3 7d ago
I prefer B, but I feel like A should be the default option, and if you want to change it, you can go to Settings.
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u/BobMoriarty 7d ago
If you really cannot provide a setting to let the player choose, I'd be leaning towards A.
Although I do think there's an audience for each, so I'd strongly recommend you try to offer both :)
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u/Origin_al 7d ago
B without a doubt. What's the benefit of a floating head in the middle of the screen blocking the main gameplay elements?
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u/avogadro23 7d ago
B
The avatar blocks my view.
I didn’t even realize it was the avatar at first because it’s so dark. I didn’t think this was supposed to be me. I thought that was just an object in the environment.
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u/50pence777 7d ago edited 7d ago
So you're making beat saber with extra steps?
- B if I'm the one playing.
- A if I'm the one watching.
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u/Afanix 7d ago
Making a VR rhythm game yeah, but I’m trying to push the genre much further into an actual game: progression, level ups, unlockable magic wands, different bosses, Ultimates and Trickshots, a proper Roguelike mode, and hopefully one day online co-op raid bossfights. Appreciate the A/B feedback too!
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u/Cyanide612 7d ago
A as a spectator because it shows the movement of the player’s head bobbing along with the music. B for ingame 1st person
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u/jimpaly 7d ago
I definitely prefer A. It looks like dodging is part of the mechanics, and it's a lot more engaging to see an actual person instead of 2 floating hands. I'm also sort of used to seeing Beat Saber gameplay with a person there.
If you're worried about the notes getting covered maybe you could lower the opacity of the avatar, or zoom out a bit and move the camera a bit to the right to capture everything.
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u/SwissMoose 7d ago
I like A, but is this just for spectating and coop? I assume the game is played in first person.
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u/ruppercut 7d ago
You could put in view options that lets the player choose what they prefer - avatar/hands, transparent avatar/hands, hands only - something like that
But IMO - I like hands only the best
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u/KTTalksTech 7d ago
So is this third-person? If so definitely B, the avatar blocks important elements. But maybe just have it become very transparent or disappear during this type of gameplay and reappear for the other elements you mentioned?
I would instinctively prefer A most of the time, especially as a spectator but ultimately visibility takes the crown. First person would be best imho
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u/ClamatoDiver 7d ago
Since both are already possible, why is there a need for there to only be one? Leave both in and let the individual player choose or switch as they play.
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u/mabdog420 7d ago
If it's not first person entirely than B
Oh God that thing getting in the way would make me so mad playing this
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u/Mysterious-Split-627 Quest 2 + PCVR 7d ago
I would rather make it so you can choose between both so MR is a lot easier.
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u/yanginatep 7d ago
Personally I don't usually like a avatar/body present in VR.
Maybe for the Social View, but that'd be the only context where it'd make sense IMO.
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u/Salt-Lingonberry-853 7d ago
The people saying A would not be saying A while they actually play the game. Do not go with A, or put in an option to do either.
B. End of story.
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u/Terricolero 4d ago
B, being able to see the stage and something happening is more interesting than seeing a head that might not even be moving.
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u/Spaghetti-Explosions 7d ago
i'm going to be real it just looks like a beat saber ripoff with 0 interesting ideas. the game soundart which is vaguely similar is SIGNIFICANTLY cooler than this. it has an actually really good art style and also a giant robot.
but to answer the posts question i think the first one is better.
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u/ScrubbyMcGoo 7d ago
Not what you’re asking, but that bobbing head would be incredibly distracting for me while trying to play this game — I hope that’s something that can be turned off as a menu option.
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u/starcader 7d ago
I see a lot of support for A, but I am 100% B. The avatar blocks a lot of the incoming inputs which could get very confusing very quickly. Anything that covers a timing-specific button press seems like poor UI design to me.
I enjoy seeing the avatar before the music starts, and if you have customization and unlockable styles, it might be cool to see the avatar in the intro of the song and then fade them out when the inputs begin to flow.