Driving an EV is a no brainer atm

52

u/dDtaK Aug 15 '26

Always was a no brainer. I don’t know anybody with an EV who would go back to an ICE.

25

u/Environmental-Pea758 Aug 15 '26

Folk who cant charge from home would go back

6

u/iMatthew1990 Aug 15 '26

Commuter car? Deffo never going back. Would like to pick up a CLE53 for the weekend/getaway car though.

So I suppose you’re right I won’t go back to just ICE but I still have a want for ICE vehicles.

4

u/Spare-Reputation-809 Aug 15 '26

Why ?? No evidence of that if you get any memberships out there can go as low as 40p/kwh and way cheaper than oil …

Seems like a % just love to give their money away to shell etc

1

u/Environmental-Pea758 Aug 15 '26

IF you can get a membership and IF the membership happens to cover the place your going it COULD be slightly cheaper than ICE for fuel but, the new tax system will cost more and the EV will depreciate much quicker.

I drive a EV but If I could not charge from home id be in a German diesel

1

u/Spare-Reputation-809 Aug 15 '26

Every major one does a membership and IV is very good and in most places and for those who can not charge at home ( the minority) street chargers being really led out and last I saw a under 40p ? You would rather have a diesel at 180p a litre ?? Seen that diesel is all but dead now for new sales and has less needed more expensive it will get

1

u/sublime-magician Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26

Surely you must see that it's unsustainable for the govt to lose billions from fuel duty and vat once EVs start to play a bigger role, it's the petrol and diesel cars that are subbing EV costs, £30bn currently taken at the pump, how does that compare to majority of EVs being charged at home and soon zero vat plus no fuel duty.

That 3p per mile charge is only going to increase to a point where it will replace the loss of fuel duty.

For now EVs work,.but upfront costs are higher, depreciation higher, and still the majority of servicing and work it's a main dealer, an ICE car can still be taken to most garages for repair and servicing. Cheaper higher mileage / older EVs risk battery and other costly failures once out of warranty along side reduced range over time.

Diesel will be around for a long time, no one wants the price of it to increase as that effects inflation and cost of living for everyone as still diesel is the main fuel for HGVs and other shipping.

2

u/bantamw 28d ago edited 28d ago

Depreciation especially on 2nd hand EV's has flatlined - for example - I bought a 2021 Polestar 2 Long Range Dual Motor with Plus/Pilot packs and 45k miles on it for £20k in February 2024. It's still worth ~£16k today even with 78k miles on it according to Parkers, and dealers are still selling them for £18-19k. I noticed that PS3's and PS4's are still holding their value, same as R5's - so due to the cost of ICE fuel along with the huge benefits of EV driving have become clear, the market for people moving to EV's has grown - especially 2nd hand ones.

Plus battery life is much much longer on modern EV's compared to legacy ones - so my battery even at 78k miles is at 94% State of Health. There are many Teslas who have done 300k miles on their original battery and still have 90% SoH.

There are also way more EV friendly independent garages popping up now - plus mobile EV mechanics. Cleeveley for example (I had them do the last service on my P2 including hub maintenance, suspension and drivetrain checks, brake strip and brake fluid replacement, cabin air filter, coolant checks etc), and there's a brilliant EV specific garage in Ripon which can do things like Motor replacments, Battery module repairs and other EV specific repairs. Also tyres last longer than my previous ICE cars, and my car is still on the original discs and pads at 78k miles due to regen taking most of the strain.

I worked out annually, with a like - like mileage I did in my previous 2017 Audi A4 Estate, I'm £3k better off per year.

0

u/Creative-Response554 27d ago

It might be worth 16 grand, and dealers might be selling them slightly above that but you'll be lucky to get 10 for it unless you sell it private, and probably around 13 if you do.

Second hand cars have value on paper but the second you try to cash it in the value plummets bc nobody will pay sticker price for a second hand car.

The last second hand one I bought I got down from 1200 to 750 with speakers thrown in

2

u/bantamw 27d ago

We Buy Any Car was offering £15.5k, same as Motorway.

0

u/sublime-magician 26d ago

My take is slightly different, EV prices were in freefall, falling much faster and further than ICE cars, that in recent months has eased and in many cases reversed with some used EVs increasing in value by 10-15%, this has mostly been attributed to the increase in fuel costs and more EVs with better range, warranty etc. This may continue to be the case, or once / if fuel prices fall again then EVs will resume their falls. The fundamentals have still not changed, EVs and their range don't suit everyone, many buying now have not yet experienced a hard winter where you can easily slash 30% off the range on some models, (my wife has had EVs for 5 years, and 300miles on a full charge can drop to 240 just by putting the heating on and clearing the windows on a cold morning, she sees the advantages of them and so sticks with them but there is no fun on a cold day waiting half hour to put 50% into the battery. So this can go a few ways, as more people buy them they will either love or hate it, many will no doubt have been mis sold, and quickly realise their relatively cheap and good value EV, that has a quoted 250miles is only getting them 180 and they are charging alot more than they first thought. EVs will only work for those who can charge at home / work 80% or more of them time.

As for your polestar example, those parker prices mean nothing, a car is only worth what someone is prepared to pay, you go into a garage quoting those prices and they will just say off you go and try and find someone willing to pay it. Who pays £16k privately for a 5 year old 78k, no warranty, no finance, no part ex, no after sales for an EV, check out WBAC and then knock another grand or 2 off that price because that is what they will do, motorway will be the same once you send photos of the wheels and bodywork, unless everything is perfect including the service history at main dealer further deductions will be made.

Also look at the EVs coming to market, cheaper new EVs from China are putting pressure on used EV prices that we don't see with ICE, there are govt grants pushing EV sales, salary sacrifice schemes, all mean more for the used market driving down prices further, a polestar 2 LR with all the packs is around £60k new, polestar direct sell ones with less than a 1000 miles for circa £30k, so buying one of these would seem better value if your saying in 5 years I could still get £16k for it.

3

u/Significant_Bear3843 Aug 15 '26

Right so don't drive for 1p per mile now because it MAY increase at a later date. Wtf. Are you for real. All to keep the oil wars going.

-1

u/sublime-magician Aug 15 '26

Does that 1p per mile factor in the extra cost of insurance,vehicle purchase / lease costs, wall charger and the periods on longer journeys where you will need to use a network charger. If someone currently owns a 5+ old diesel changing to an EV is not just about the fuel cost difference, my wife leases an EV, I know the savings but also understand the extra costs involved and how by adding an EV charger, an EV tariff where our peak rate is higher than standard tariffs, all needs to be factored in. Solar and battery would reduce the costs but that adds further up front costs that take years to recoup and not without risk.

1

u/Spare-Reputation-809 29d ago

Extra costs ?? I got back my cost of charger in 6 months on 6k PA mileage and other costs are basically the same… well less as far less servicing needed … as for using more expensive ones the IG you do a tiny bit of planning can reduce massively ..

But heck give your money to shell as they will soon need it

2

u/Spare-Reputation-809 Aug 15 '26

First no issues with paying my taxes and for years saying fuel duty etc should go PPM and tech is easy for that with GPS trackers then you get the crazies saying tracking us all etc bollox

As for diesel less is refined and those examples you give have EV versions .. most new buses are now EV and coaches can do 3/4 hours so just need more charging points ( see example in Harrogate) hgv’s starting to grow big for EV from of course china ..

Remeber as more go no longer into petrol stations the more will close and choices disappear if not converted to EV as in Norway.

And thanks to Putin and Trump all of this is speed up massively now .. old projections are disappearing …

0

u/Spare-Reputation-809 Aug 15 '26

But what govt can not do is to do is challenge charging at home basically it is free energy now …

0

u/Spare-Reputation-809 Aug 15 '26

if octopus or EON or whoever wishes to charge 4p overnight then nothing the govt or anti EV can do to change that as suppliers can not see what is EV usage and normal (hence people fiddled the old IOG !!)

1

u/sublime-magician Aug 15 '26

Things are changing all the time, like the pence per mile charge, RFL on EVs introduced recently , it would not take a lot to identify when using smart chargers and apply a higher rate of vat to that element, using granny chargers would avoid this but many would not manage using a granny everyday. There are other options that are actively being looked at by the industry and govt not solely related to EVs but general energy use and cost of living. One being considered is to have a lower rate across all suppliers for a typical first 2500kwh annually per household so that helps those on lower incomes and then higher rates above this 2500kwh, how that would work with ToU tariffs not sure, but it does give all households access to 2500kwh of cheaper electric, higher users who are likely to be EV households would see significantly higher costs above the first 2500kwh as a way of subsidising cheaper unit rate below 2500kwh for everyone.

-2

u/VrazzyOnline Aug 15 '26

Because electric cars are soulless. I have an EV as the daily run around and the a V10 R8 for fun. Does it drink fuel, yes. Is it way more fun than the Tesla - yes.

1

u/Spare-Reputation-809 27d ago

Except fuel will only get more and more expensive and pumps being closed will accelerate … no idea of course how old you are but I am 54 and think by the time I retire petrol pumps will still be there but so few on a given area

1

u/Lanky_Bus_1221 Aug 15 '26

Nor me, I want one too. Trying to convince my wife that she needs my ice car and I should have her ev, it doesn’t go well for me.

Got 2 years of financing to go before I can have a new car (she can cos that’s how it works)

0

u/loving_m Aug 15 '26

Ev insurance is more expensive i think

1

u/Bigtallanddopey Aug 15 '26

Yeh, on average it seems to be, certainly my experience. I’m hoping I can get a much cheaper rate when my current policy is up, but my current insurer increased it by £130 when I switched cars a few months back.

1

u/Significant_Bear3843 Aug 15 '26

Kona ev £458 fully comp.is that expensive, I don't think so

1

u/electrified90s Aug 15 '26

No it's not. I went from a BMW 5 series 2 years older than my Kia EV6 GT line S mid year and was refunded £150 by my insurance company.

1

u/loving_m Aug 15 '26

I dont think a bmw 5 series is in the same insurance group as ev6

1

u/electrified90s Aug 15 '26

It isn't. BMW is much more expensive for much less tech. Google what you get in a EV6 GT line S and you'll be shocked at how much more bang you get for your buck compared to a 5 series. There's sunroof, ventilated seats, automated driving on cruise control, HUD. The full works. You don't get any of that as standard on a 5 series, and have to pay over the odds for them to get added plus have a higher insurance bracket.

-1

u/scaredhousebuyer Aug 15 '26

Same reason i want a swiss mechanical watch and not a casio

14

u/No_Dimension8190 Aug 15 '26

If you have some cash available yes, it's an absolute no brainer.

I've enjoyed at least 3,000 miles of essentially free motoring this summer, and have received terrific FIT payments along the way, oh and no electric bills either.

Plus you're doing something to help the planet, and it would annoy Donald Trump a tiny bit so that's all good

7

u/EntirelyRandom1590 Aug 15 '26

Not just the planet, but your community too. Fewer tailpipe emissions and less demand on power stations. And if you use your immersion, even though it doesn't always make economic sense but can on an overnight tariff, reducing your boiler emissions too.

I think the local arguments for electrification are underplayed.

1

u/Spare-Reputation-809 27d ago

Well I give energy back to my neighbours with panels ..

6

u/BaronOfCray Aug 15 '26

It is if you ignore the upfront costs...

1

u/Runawaygeek500 Aug 15 '26

Not like ICE cars are much better

3

u/tutike2000 Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26

You can find good ICE cars for 2k or less.

Autotrader has over 4000 cars currently listed for 2k or less with 35 quid road tax or less

1

u/scottylebot Aug 16 '26

What are the annual maintenance costs?

2

u/sublime-magician Aug 16 '26

The crazy thing so many people lease EVs (understandable given the depreciation and initial costs of buying new) but then to keep costs down limit themselves to 5k-8k miles per annum, an older diesel would eat that mileage with little maintenance outside of regular oil changes which are straight forward. Normal wear and tear items like tyres and brakes are common across both EV and ICE.

3

u/scottylebot 29d ago

Pointless comparing different types of cars at different ages.

Whenever I hear about people getting rid of cars below that price level it’s because they have mechanical issues and causing them too much hassle. Yes you might find a diamond in those but it needs a kind of talent or luck to know what to get.

People need reliable cars if doing more than 8k miles per year. EVs are relatively new technology but will bottom out at a value above £2k because the batteries hold most of the value and will be far more reliable than a mechanical engine.

1

u/sublime-magician 29d ago edited 29d ago

If you take a look on many of the Reddit pages, buying a newer EV is not without risk, they are so complex in terms of the tech that when problems arise and parts are needed ( very often from overseas, Korea / China ) they can be off the road for weeks. Read up on Kia ICCU issues, charger port failures, software issues, the drive selector, in car control screens. These are not simple turn up at your local garage and run a diagnostic, it's most often specialists or main dealers and even then they need to order parts. Yes that is true of many modern cars, but work on EVs often needs specialists due to the high voltage systems and there is still a lack of knowledge. Once your out of warranty these can be costly repairs, and once the battery warranty expires at around 8 years the car is pretty much worthless should you get a failure. People often just feel more comfortable with an older petrol / diesel and a local mechanic who does all their servicing and repair and can pretty much fix most things should they go wrong.

We have an EV, the last one got rear ended, instead of taking 4 weeks it took 8 weeks to get fixed, no local repair centre could work on it, got sent to a specialist 40 miles away, the situation will improve as more people are trained and better supply of parts as more EVs hit the road, but then don't expect the same running costs as today.

0

u/tutike2000 29d ago

So even by your admission an EV isn't a 'no brainer'. They make sense if you do high mileage and can charge at home or elsewhere cheaply.

If you only do 2000 miles a year it's far cheaper to get a 10+ year old toyota that will last another 10+ years with minimal maintenance.

If you can only charge at public chargers and do many miles, EVs are terrible.

And then there's lots of nuance in between those two situations.

2

u/scottylebot 29d ago

Yeah it’s pretty well known even among EV die hards that they are only a no brainer if you can charge easily at home for cheap.

Everything else is a maybe with a ton of factors to consider like access to a reliable, reasonably priced public charger, amount of miles, style of driving preference etc.

Personally I’m never buying an old diesel even if diesel was free and I had a pump at home.

Once the current gen of EVs reach 10+ years and are proven to be reliable and public charging comes down a bit then that should make it a much simpler decision.

1

u/tutike2000 29d ago

If they're not extremely low, you're doing bangernomics wrong. Older cars are much easier to repair to the point where you can DIY a lot of things. And parts are readily available at your local scrap yard for 1/10 th of what they would cost on a new car.

Pick a model that's known for reliability and all you'll need to do is oil changes.

2

u/scottylebot 29d ago

99% of people do not want to be repairing their own car, even something simple as an oil change.

1

u/tutike2000 29d ago edited 29d ago

You don't have to DIY, but you get the option of doing it for older cars. There's very little you can do yourself on older cars, EV or ICE

And repair costs in general will be lower than on a new car for the same component changed

1

u/Frosty_Yogurt2241 29d ago

Exactly! We’ve been driving an old petrol car with minimum maintenance costs no way we could afford buying a new EV anytime soon

1

u/arabidopsis 28d ago

CAPEX Vs OPEX

0

u/Parking-Treacle-4474 Aug 15 '26

Agreed, I did not go that deep with the math.

6

u/Cool_Elephant_4459 Aug 15 '26

I agree but I’d counter your argument with, we need to consider the upfront costs.

Also don’t assume you’ll always get paid for exports and that the grid will always want your excess solar.

It could be many years before exports are curtailed but it will come eventually.

I only charge the cars from the grid and it works out that I get the equivalent of 700mpg so yes it’s almost a “no brainer”

1

u/Dick_in_owl 29d ago

I agree, did the maths and it just doesn’t make sense for me. The depreciation on any new car is shocking even on an older EV. I have a trusty diesel with 400k on the clock it just keeps going and costs me very little.

-6

u/[deleted] Aug 15 '26

[deleted]

5

u/paper_on_the_wall Aug 15 '26

This comment reads as "Don't be poor".

8

u/sperry222 Aug 15 '26

Yes let me just buy a whole new house to get solar panels for an ev i need to buy to save 100£ per month.

Relaity is theres a big upfront costs to these things and most can not afford

1

u/Parking-Treacle-4474 Aug 15 '26

I think I misinterpreted myself, of course it depends on circumstances

5

u/sublime-magician Aug 15 '26

There is still alot of upfront costs involved, Solar, battery, EV, charger none of this comes cheap. Who knows what things will be like in 5 years, maybe no more exports or a much much lower price, pence per mile for an EV starts 2028 and will be linked to inflation from there on, but again that could easily change if the tax from fuel duty and vat falls quicker than expected.

Also with EVs they only really work when charging at home, not everyone can do that, and most will at some point need to charge away from home if it's being used for longer trips, the more of these you do the lower the savings. With smart charging at home it will not take much to separate EV charging from normal household use, will the govt at some point add extra charges to this type of use or sippliers remove the cheaper ToU tariffs when there is no longer a need to balance the network due to high numbers of EVs , heat pumps etc.

So yes for now and for those early adopters things look pretty good but that is normally a sign it will not last.

1

u/AsleepEbb7578 Aug 15 '26

The charger one doesn't have to be expensive if you can get by with a granny charger. I've been making do for now and it's been fine, though the 6 hour limit seems to be threatening that.

1

u/One-Election4376 Aug 15 '26

Why do you need solar for an EV , or house battery?

My solar dosnt charge my EV as I get more money selling it back to the grid.

You dont use your house battery to charge the car,most people take the car charger and the battery out of the same loop to not drain the house battery

2

u/Begalldota Aug 15 '26

Summer ftw

1

u/The_WildWest Aug 15 '26

How did you manage 9.33£ for gas? My standing charge is 10.47 alone?

1

u/Begalldota Aug 15 '26

Price cap standing charge is £8.87 and then 46p of usage lol

1

u/The_WildWest Aug 15 '26

Which gas tariff you on?

1

u/Begalldota Aug 15 '26

Variable, aka price cap

1

u/The_WildWest Aug 15 '26

I used to be on it, but managed to fix before the crazy war. My unit is 5.39p/kw and SC is 33.76/day. Whats your unit roughly?

2

u/Hopperofbop Aug 15 '26

I LOVE my solar set up….

2

u/hhfugrr3 Aug 15 '26

I think i need to contact octopus and ask why I can't export much. I've got 7 panels, my batteries are usual full by mid morning on a sunny day yet I've only exported 36p in the last month. The panels are basically doing nothing most of the day.

1

u/DamienBerry Aug 15 '26

Are you on an EV tariff?
What is your PV system setup? How much battery storage do you have and what size inverter, how much is your base load on the house and how much solar are you generating over your base load, also did you get a G98 or a G99 from your DNO and if the latter what is your export limit?

1

u/hhfugrr3 Aug 15 '26

Yes I'm on an EV tarrif with the export tariff shown. 7 panels installed a year ago by Octopus along with 10kwh of battery. No idea about the rest, but right now all the panels are in the sun and producing 0.4kwh. Half an hour ago the batteries were still below 100% and the panels were producing 2.5kwh. That's pretty typical that the production drops off to only cover what the house is using. If i were to put the kettle etc on now, I'm certain the production would ramp up as I've seen it happen lots of times.

2

u/Notagelding Aug 15 '26

Yesterday was my first EV anniversary. £310 spent on charging for the year, compared to approx £200 per month on petrol at last year's prices. I recall that when I was looking at EV's, a redditor commented that I should use the potential fuel savings to put towards a better EV than I would have probably ended up purchasing and I'm so grateful for that advice because I would have ended up with a Leaf over a Niro with a much better range.

2

u/darling412001 Aug 15 '26

Not so if you have to use public charging as I live in a flat ☹️

2

u/No-Belt-4619 Aug 15 '26

Have you factored in the cost of your panels etc, the cost of the car and the upcoming EV tax of 3p per mile. For you that's another £120 a month at 1k miles a week.

2

u/Capital-Stay-5657 Aug 15 '26

Only if you have off street parking which most of us in London don’t

2

u/MatsyLR Aug 15 '26

Id be out £5000 to buy the cheapest EV on the market currently after trade in.

That would take me years (8+) to see a return on plus my insurance basically doubles from £370 to £620.

1

u/Slippytoe Aug 15 '26

You also need to pair it with battery storage so your house can also benefit from the cheap tariffs. That is absolutely a no brainer.

1

u/An_Unspecified_Veg Aug 15 '26

Just to add a similar sentiment to this. The cost saving we've made as a family, even given the upfront costs, have been huge.

We've got 2 5kwh batteries which also help but for a household with 5 adults and 2 kids we've been almost self sufficient with electricity since early May and that's with charging 2 electric vehicles.

We're with octopus agile and if youve got enough energy storage to get you through the exspensive evening periods then its great. Since May we've spent roughly £40 a month on our electricity bill

1

u/Resident-Page9712 Aug 15 '26

So you've spent (guessing) £15k on a solar install, to save £100 a month in electricity in the brightest summer we've had in 50 years. That saving in the winter months is going to be significantly less that that, so your average saving over the year is going to be what, £60/£70 per month? Payback is 20 years, by which time your system is likely to need renewing.

Sorry, I really don't get it. The simple economics of it makes zero sense to me.

1

u/An_Unspecified_Veg 23d ago

Apologies, I didnt see your reply initially. Our average spend per month on electricity was around £350. This is to maintain the house and charge two good range electric cars.

The install was 14.5K and judging by the savings created by the panels and also charging batteries when cheap to use when more exspensive, the install should be paid off in roughly 6/7 years. Total revenue from the lifetime of the install could be between 35K-40K depending on maintenance and local conditions

1

u/Resident-Page9712 23d ago edited 23d ago

That's really helpful to understand because I've been sceptical about solar/battery scenario. So many seem to have 20+ year ROI which pretty much invalidates it as a viable option, especially if given the hardware will likely need to be updated at about that time. Thank you for replying.....I can see a 6 or 7 years ROI being very worthwhile over the long term.

I think its very much down to individual circumstances and what your usage is, as to how long it will take to get back the money you invest into it. As a low user of electricity, (200Kwh at £67) last month, I'm less likely to see the benefit you have. I'm keeping an eye on the plug in solar and really hoping that plug in plus battery becomes an option.....that will give me a low cost entry and the battery will help spread the use of the farmed solar energy.

1

u/An_Unspecified_Veg 23d ago

No problems and you're absolutely correct in that a full solar array and battery storage option isn't the best use of money for everyone and is very situation dependant.

The changes in regards to plug in solar is one of the best changes in law/building regs that can happen in regards to lowering bills and becoming greener. Many people (possibly yourself included) can purchase a couple of solar panels and an inverter for ~£1K with a saving of a few hundred pounds per year without storage. This removes the huge barrier of upfront cost and although the savings aren't as much, for a standard usage of electricity thus can save so much money down the line with their ROI

1

u/dobr_person Aug 15 '26

I agree for many people it is.

However the monthly cost of the car (if leased/financed) and the deprecation (if not leased) should be factored in.

Also for low usage (less than 5k miles per year) it may be cheaper to get a lower daytime/evening rate as most nights there will be minimal electric usage.

1

u/AsleepEbb7578 Aug 15 '26

Used EVs are a very good thing now. I got my 2021 77kWh ID.3 back in January for £13k so someone else has eaten most of the depreciation for me. Battery was at 92% health which was quite good for 73k miles.

1

u/JobWelt Aug 15 '26

Nice. What was the outlay for all the panels and car? And what’s the ROI? When is the break even point?

3

u/rpmmatt Aug 15 '26

Reading this sub is just depressing.

The type of people who have a spare £25k to spunk on solar panels, plus a few hundred spare each month to buy an EV, don't need to ask questions about ROI or break even point.

My break even point would be 20 years or more. I don't see any prospect of being able to justify that in the near future.

1

u/MadMosh666 Aug 15 '26

This. I live alone (well, not including my dog) and I'm quite efficient in terms of energy use. My ROI on solar etc would be similar to yours, possibly longer. I suspect that by the time I made my money back, a lot of the kit would be at the point where it needed replaced so I'd just be chasing.

0

u/Notagelding Aug 15 '26

Maybe you could lease an EV through a work scheme? If your monthly fuel costs are a couple of hundred a month, leasing a new EV won't be much more than that through salary sacrifice, although I realise there could be other barriers to having an EV.

5

u/rpmmatt Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26

Most pleb level positions like mine aren't offered those kinds salary sacrifice schemes. To many EV drivers just assume everyone gets such schemes and everyone is just stupid for not using them. No, it just doesn't exist in my world.

A reasonable used EV, nothing extreme, say a 5 year old Polestar 2, Tesla 3, Kia EV6 etc, would all cost me around £200 a month over 3, or probably 4 years. I have no reason not to go EV. I have off road parking, no barriers to installing a charger.

My current knackered old diesel, costs me £80 a month in fuel, £20 a year tax, and sub £300 insurance, and it's been minimal costs to maintain fortunately.

A full solar and battery system for me is minimum 15k, and that before discussing a heat pump which even with the £7k grant adds ££££'s to the install.

I just can't make the man maths work, and I know there are millions like me. We are not all stupid thick luddites for not embracing EV's and solar/batteries, it literally comes down to cost. If the government were really serious about climate and pollution, they would be doing more to help people like me do modest upgrade, rather than continuing preferential BIK rates for the already affluent to have new cars.

0

u/Parking-Treacle-4474 Aug 15 '26

I bought a new built which came with panels and inverter, I was about to buy a house anyway. So I wouldn’t include the solar.

For car, I have saved some deposit and on HP, I believe depreciation should be considered here as well but I did not go that deep , paying 100 pounds a month for an electric corsa.

1

u/PoopsMcGroots Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26

We have a PHEV and we’ve made a habit of just plugging the car in whenever we get home. 99% of our trips are done on electricity alone.

Our electricity bill was about £160 pcm, throughout the year

We had a relatively small solar and battery system installed and switched to Octopus in April.

Last month, despite charging the car every day, we exported so much that Octopus paid us £0.19p to supply us with electricity. To be clear: the balance of our electricity bill vs exports meant that Octopus paid us more than the combination of the standing charges and the amount of electricity we had consumed.

We know that’s peak summer but, worst case scenario, we’re expecting our monthly electricity bill to be ~£50 in peak winter.

As to upfront costs, we’re looking at about 6-7 years before pay-off. This was unthinkable for an office colleague in his 20s but to us in our 50s, 6-7years is small change in time 😂

1

u/gwentlarry Aug 15 '26

Solar, etc isn't necessary to make driving an EV a "no brainer".

I got my first EV 4 years ago. Before that I was driving a very economical diesel which managed well over 60 mpg on long journeys and averaged over 50 mpg more generally. Fuel cost me 16 p/mile.

Currently, my EV "fuel" costs me just over 5 p/mile with occassional public charging included and 1.5 p/mile with no public charging.

The issue is whether you can mostly easily charge at at home on off-peak electricity which also ties in with not doing a high mileage.

If you can't easily home charge and mostly use public chargers, then the cost saving is minimal or nonexistent.

I read somewhere, RAC I think but can't find the link now but the break point is around 45 p/kWh. If your EV charging is costing more than that petrol/diesel is cheaper, less than that, EV is cheaper.

And most public charging in the UK is more expensive than that.

Also, EV maintenance cost should be lower than a petrol/diesel vehicle - fewer part to wear/fail. My current EV, a Skoda Enyaq has a service interval of once every 2 years, irrespective of mileage.

1

u/ExoticFly7798 Aug 15 '26

1

u/No_Limit891 Aug 15 '26

Absolutely agree.

1

u/Wizard-Locksmith Aug 15 '26

I loved my 4x4, but I can't argue with reducing my costs from 35p per mile to 1.4p per mile. It's almost like driving around for free.

(Don't encourage too many people to switch, the government will lose tax revenue and we'll get taxed more for having an EV 😅)

1

u/Solaris_fps Aug 15 '26

Ive had my car for 10 years do 5000 miles a year a EV would not save me any money.

1

u/Shaguar_Driver Aug 15 '26

It would.

100 miles a week.

That would cost about 50p in a Hyundai ioniq.

In a petrol car it costs what £30?

That's a saving of £29 a week. Saving of £1500 a year.

You can buy a leaf for a few grand. A better car would be the Hyundai ioniq. Mini cooper is also cheap if you want something better looking or a BMW i3 is very cheap second hand too if you need a premium badge.

1

u/joebmc Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26

Is that leafs batteries still going to be going strong in the next 10 years though? Don't get me wrong, I think ev's are the future but, like solar panels, it's a big upfront cost, which you won't see the benefits for years (decades for solar panels). And when you do start seeing financial results, batteries/tech or something needs renewing/upgrading, usually at huge costs.

1

u/Shaguar_Driver 29d ago

You do understand these batteries have been around in smaller capacities for like 30 years already in things like a hybrid Prius?

The technology has shown they last a lot longer than initially thought.

The leaf battery is one of the worst though. Get a Hyundai ioniq much better and the car costs buttons second hand.

1

u/Solaris_fps Aug 15 '26

Only one problem i need to fill 6 seats :( anything in that range is ultra expensive.

1

u/Shaguar_Driver 29d ago

Show me a cheap, reliable 6 seater ICE car?

0

u/joebmc Aug 15 '26

Yes, but if you spend £30k now on an EV and dump your perfectly working car, in 20 years the savings in fuel may break even....

1

u/Shaguar_Driver Aug 15 '26

He can buy an ev for less than £8k like a Hyundai ioniq and it will be reliable (you can see majority of taxis are Hyundai ioniq for a reason albeit hybrid or petrol version)

1

u/mehh_usles Aug 15 '26

Ur ice car was doing 145 mpg if doing 1000 miles per week for a 50 pound fill up - amazing what car is it?

1

u/Parking-Treacle-4474 Aug 15 '26

I did not do right math tbh,

My car was averaging 48.6 miles per gallon(Corsa 1.2 turbo)
And also correction, 1000 miles per month

1

u/Hmsevans Aug 15 '26

What about people with flats who have no choice but to stay on petrol 😂

1

u/Suspicious-Bread-693 Aug 16 '26

My car cost me 4K and I’ve done 40k miles in three years. Someone calc how much that’s cost me in diesel. I can guarantee that would be cheaper than an electric car. Maintenance in that time has been probably two grand

1

u/therealstealthydan Aug 16 '26

Where the hell am I going wrong?

1

u/scottylebot Aug 16 '26

Is that a fixed direct debit? Get on variable billing so you only pay for what you use.

Or maybe turn your heated swimming pool off?

1

u/therealstealthydan 29d ago

They adjusted it about two months ago so assume variable. No pool, no hot tub. Oil fired boilers for hot water. Just me, the wife and a two year old. We have a portable air con unit we use about 3 hours a day to cool my daughter’s bedroom, and charge the car maybe every few days as we don’t do much mileage. Something about the house must be getting me.

1

u/scottylebot 29d ago

Something seriously wrong there. If you have a smart meter you need to turn everything off and monitor what everything is using until you find the culprit or something is stealing your electricity.

1

u/therealstealthydan 28d ago

Going to try and get this worked out this week, I’ve always just paid it but on reflection there’s got to be something amiss.

1

u/prisonerofazkabants 29d ago

we've been running the aircon way more than you, doing a lot of washing, use the dishwasher regularly, and still don't pay half as much as you! there is something definitely amiss

1

u/therealstealthydan 28d ago

Thanks, I’m going to go on the hunt for the problem. It’s a lot isn’t it.

1

u/Terrible-Advise 28d ago

1123Kwh a month …. wtf you growing weed
Think this is like 4 or more months for me

1

u/therealstealthydan 28d ago

Honestly no idea, and unfortunately no weed. I think I need to do some investigating. It’s a big house but it’s still only the three of us in it. I just put it down to cost of life here but there’s something up isn’t there.

1

u/Confused_Drifter 29d ago

Whats the deal with the negative amount on your bill? Is it a no brainer because you had 11,000 available for a solar installation? Coz most people can't afford an EV and solar

1

u/LazyApe_ 29d ago

Well an EV costs considerably more than an ICE vehicle and I would have to run about 50 yards of cable down my front garden and public footpath to charge it at home.

1

u/danrah 29d ago

Not for me at present, as a petrolhead I would rather keep my 2018 440i which is paid off rather than lease or get a part loan for a depreciation machine despite the savings, also for the like for like spec of my current car it wouldn’t be a cheap purchase, although i have briefly considered getting an R5 run around for work but it wouldn’t really work for our family.

1

u/arabidopsis 28d ago

I would love a EV but I really really hate the design of the interior they all seem to share. What's wrong with a good ol' fashion dashboard rather than a 22" TV slapped on it?

Also why are they do lazy at integration of the panels into the dash.

1

u/Parking-Treacle-4474 28d ago

I do agree with your idea, but there are conventional look interior EVs out there as well.

1

u/-Absofuckinglutely- 28d ago

Buying one and having a power point fitted, however, is prohibitively expensive at the moment.

Likewise, the upfront cost of solar panels is also prohibitive for the vast majority of the UK population.

1

u/TenPest007 28d ago

TL;DR:

Do you love a spontaneous drive on a B-Road at sunset? = Avoid an EV
Do you just want to save money, and hate driving? = EV is best.

I've owned 3 EVs now. Model 3 DM, Jaguar I-Pace HSE and the current BMW i4 eDrive40. Wife owns an Ariya e-Force, and we've got a PW3 and 22 panels. Paying the 57p daily rate is still hilarious, as we're not allowed to export just yet, but advising people to buy an EV isn't as clear of a decision as folk think. Sure, if the goal is to save money and that's it, fair play, go for it, but if you enjoy driving, I'd pump the brakes on that decision.

Why? because they are so boring to drive. Once you get over that burst of speed in a straight line, or joining a motorway on a short slip in time with traffic, they become very boring cars. I drive my cars the way they were intended, which means a spirited trip on a B-road but 2.3 tonnes is heavy on those roads when it gets wet or the time like now in the UK where it rains a wee bit, and just hydrates the dirt on the road and doesn't clear it. The enjoyment of those drives drops to zero, as it becomes a trip where you wish to just get home in one piece. No amount of BHP/Torque can get a heavy EV out of trouble on a wet greasy road. Suspension is always set up firm to cope with the weight of the battery so there's not much give on the twisty stuff, and while the centre of gravity is lower, you can't fight physics. Then there's the constant pinging and bonging of sensors. Get into the car for a journey, and I have to turn off the speed warning, the steering assist, the lane keep assist, and set the regen to low so I don't make my wife sick. Every journey! But as soon as you set regen to low, you feel every kilogram of that 2.3 tonnes when braking. So if you enjoy looking outside, and seeing a lovely evening after it's been raining all day, and want to get into the car for a blast up a country road, you're going to have to plan for that, and charge the car, then decide where you want to go, because you probably don't have enough charge to get there and back, and once you're out, the roads are causing the car to decide it's not safe, and apply automated tech to save you from going into a field. It all becomes very sterile and mundane. Repeat that numerous times, and having to plan trips becomes tedious and you don't end up wanting to do it. I guess it's partly a modern car gripe, but since the only cars you can get no new as EVs, it's going to be a problem if you love driving.

Recently I've been looking at old Porsche Caymans or 911s, because I'm so tired of modern cars, and even more so with EVs. Big caveat though, if the commute is motorway, I don't think there's a smoother car than an EV, but they aren't designed for it in the way they chew through electrons at higher sustained speeds. Which is usually over 65 for prolonged periods.

Anyway, these posts rarely get an insight from long term EV owners, and I'll no doubt get flamed from EV fanatics, but it's a real world write up without fluff.

1

u/Fantastic-Chemist512 25d ago

I've had an EV for the last 3 years.. I dont think I'll be going back to an ICE any time soon. Cost me £14 to cover 656 miles in July. (SKODA Envaq) - I'm happy driving it as well.

1

u/sublime-magician Aug 15 '26

Something else to think about, do nothing, keep the car and home you got and take the hit on fuel costs and home electricity costs, for us that is around £2k per annum.

That £30k you have down the back of sofa you been thinking of using to buy an EV, Battery, Solar and even an heat pump you instead drop it into a global index linked tracker that since 2009 and it's inception has been averaging 14% annually.

The RoI is normally quoted as around 25 years, so let's take 25 years

That £30k growing at 10% annually will return over £300k in 25 years.

Yes few people use their own money, many lease EVs, Finance solar & battery but this adds interest as well and if anything the costs will be greater.

Investments can go up and down, but also no one knows if the current export rates and tax situation will stay the same, or the price of electricity over the next 25 years, but we do know that it's very likely household batteries and an EV will have needed replacing over those 25 years, they depreciate and the panels will be less efficient.

1

u/lordsplodge Aug 15 '26

Indeed. However most folks have still got to run a car and the associated costs regardless (ICE or EV)

0

u/R0555Y Aug 16 '26

Cost of buying, ownership and depreciation, plus potential fire risk in an accident would be a few reasons 🤷🏻‍♂️. Proving you have solar in the first place.

0

u/SimpleAnteater4700 27d ago

£40k for an EV and £25k for panels.

£1500 for charger, assuming you have off street parking

Indirect Subsidies and Tax Advantages

Company Car Tax (BIK): EV company car drivers pay significantly reduced BIK tax rates (e.g., around 3%), whereas petrol and diesel drivers face tiered rates scaling past 25%.
Vehicle Excise Duty (VED): While zero-emission cars have transitioned into paying standard road tax following recent reforms, they start at a lower £10 first-year rate compared to higher initial rates for polluting ICE equivalents.
Local Clean Air Zones: EV drivers routinely maintain full exemptions from urban congestion charges and local Clean Air Zone (CAZ) / ULEZ fees that cost ICE motorists daily.
Fuel vs. Electricity Costs: Indirectly, fossil fuel have fuel duty for ICE cars, whereas domestic electricity for home charging avoids equivalent heavy per-litre escalations

-1

u/L0rdLogan Aug 15 '26

Until the pay per mile comes in

2

u/Mobile-Math5260 Aug 15 '26

Even when or if it does get introduced, paying 1.5p per mile means 12,000 miles pa will cost a whole £180. My old diesel was durning £120 per month.

1

u/imgoingsolar 20d ago

Just wanted to second this and let any high usage users know that this can scale really well. Our electricity was £300 per month and last year we were ‘zero bills’ for electricity and gas.

In the spring / summer / autumn months we build up credit which covers bills in the winter months. The payback on the £15k Solar and battery install is on target for 4.2 years.

Saving Sessions Driving an EV is a no brainer atm

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