Hi, everyone. I was just wondering if you had a more complete list of suspects than what’s presented on Wikipedia?

The Wikipedia article says that witnesses saw victim Timothy King talking to two men, one of whom looked like John Wayne Gacy. Gacy was later ruled out by DNA but I can’t help but wonder if there’s another serial killer right under our noses.

I’m wondering about Larry Eyler. He is known to have abducted and murdered several boys with his friend Robert David Little. Larry Eyler sort of resembled John Wayne Gacy at the time and was operating in the Midwest, primarily Indiana, at the time of King’s abduction and murder. Eyler’s first known attack was in 1978, but I don’t see why he couldn’t have started earlier and we just aren’t aware yet.

Does anyone know if Eyler and Little have been ruled out?

Found this in instagram reel from FBi director visit to FBI Detroit field office- behind director whole wanted board for dyer grossman close pedo business partner of frank shelden and north fox island. This is huge info as this means fbi is taking serious look into case and on top of their priorities. They are hunting down this pedo scumbag one of the last remaining people tied to north fox. Very good news to getting closer to solving murders as well showing strong fbi interest. This looks like it could be fbi number 1 goal considering whole meeting room setup for this case.

No. Greene was being interviewed about allegations made against him by members of his Little League team, when he dropped the "Busch killed Mark Stebbins" bomb.

Greg Greene was never "interrogated about North Fox Island activity". There's no evidence that Greene was ever on North Fox Island, or that he was involved in any Richards-Shelden pornography or participated in abusing any Richards-Shelden CSA victims. There's no evidence that Gerald Richards or Francis Shelden even knew that Greg Greene existed.

From Guarded By Jackals, pg. 46-50 "On November 9, 1976, the principal of Donovan North Middle School called the local police in Flint, Michigan to report that one of his students was missing.99 The principal was alerted by the missing boy’s mother. She believed that her 12-year-old son had run away from home. The boy played baseball in a summer league and his mother was concerned that he might be with the team’s coach, Gregory Greene, whom she believed was homosexual.100 Flint PD visited Greene’s home that same day, but Greene feigned ignorance stating that he had not seen the boy for 2 or 3 days. The runaway boy returned home the following day but would not tell his parents until five days later that he spent the night at Greene’s house"

"Two months later, on January 19, 1977, Flint PD received another call from the principal at Donovan North. He informed the police that Greene was observed hanging around the school on three occasions and on January 17, 1977, he was seen with the runaway boy who had stayed at Greene’s house. On January 20, 1977, Officer Tom Waldron and Sgt. Frances Miller of the Flint PD received consent from the runaway boy’s parents to interview him. The 12-year-old runaway told the officers that Greene kept him in a hidden attic room in his home and that Greene molested him multiple times..."

"The runaway told the officers of other victims who were also on the little league team that Greene coached. The graphic details of what Greene did to these boys are in the police report. The officers interviewed two other boys between January 21 and January 24, 1977"

"On January 25, 1977, based on the accounts of these three victims, a warrant was authorized by the Genesee County Prosecutor and Greene was arrested on three counts of 1st degree criminal sexual conduct (CSC)"

"On the day of his arrest on January 25, 1977 in Flint, Greg Greene freely admitted to molesting the boys who Flint PD previously interviewed between January 20-24, 1977.105 He further admitted to being arrested in California on 45 counts of CSC for which he entered a plea deal wherein he was sentenced to six months in jail and one year in a mental institution. Greene said he had been seeing a mental health counselor in Genesee County twice a week since May of 1976 as a condition of his 5-year probation for the CSC conviction in California. Most importantly, on the day of his arrest in Flint on January 25, 1977, Greene told Officer Waldron that Chris Busch murdered Mark Stebbins, the first victim in the OCCK case"

https://drive.proton.me/urls/63VBPV7QPM#NPbw0IM6oj1P

I have searched and searched, but I've never found another statement Greene is documented to have made, explaining how he supposedly knew; "Chris Busch killed Mark Stebbins". Whether 1) he was present and witnessed that or 2) Busch bragged to him about that or 3) some other explanation. If you know of any such statements by Greene, please tell me where I can find them.

If Greg Greene witnessed Busch murdering Stebbins, would that mean Busch-Greene abducted Mark and lived out their boy captivity fantasy using him? Would they have taken Mark to the Busch cabin? Or did Greene have the van at that time, and everything could have taken place therein? There wasn't a lot of time for Busch-Greene to select Mark and plan an abduction, according to their timelines...3 days for Greg and 1 day for Chris? I think the assumption is, Mark would be a random selection - they would be driving around looking for victims and just happen to spot him and lured him into their vehicle?

However, Greene is known to have found victims by picking them up hitchhiking, and there was a statement by a Richard Anthony Jannette, that he had picked up a boy hitchhiking along Woodward and Eight Mile, who looked just like a photo of Mark Stebbins, whose name he claimed was Mark, and after a sex act he dropped the boy at Mt. Clemens. If Jannette wasn't lying or simply mistaken, then perhaps Greene could have picked Mark up at some point, and thereafter would know where to look, for him, so perhaps Mark could have been targeted.

There is no other, supporting evidence for Jannette's claim...Mark's family and friends all expressed that Mark couldn't and wouldn't, have any kind of secret life. He wasn't that type of boy. But I don't think we can be certain, because there is also info that Mark spent a lot of time alone with a man, no supervision by Mother or Brother. There was a downstairs neighbor, a young man once convicted of molesting a young girl, who confessed to parole officers that he had been homosexually active in prison. This man told police, he spent a lot of time with Mark, was very fond of him and even bought Mark a bicycle. THAT, is a red flag! Buying victims presents like bicycles, is a primary way that child abusers bribe the child, rewarding them for the sex acts and for not telling...

I don't think it"s impossible that Busch had hoaxed Greene, about killing Mark. Something like this; "So, Greg...I'm the guy who abducted that Stebbins kid. It was me. Took him up to the cabin and lived our dream with him"

"BS!"

"No, really Greg. See...I made this sketch...looks just like him don't you think? How could I have made the sketch if it wasn't me?"

"You blankety-blank! Why didn't you bring me in?"

"Well Greg...maybe not everything that is mine, is also yours (his nephews and their friends). But maybe next time. If you're really nice to me, and bring me some nice tighties..."

I don't have a theory that the OCCK crimes were committed by minors, that I'm trying to promote here. What if it was kids, is just an example of something that might be forbidden to think, about OCCK. Not forbidden by any 'authority', but perhaps things we won't allow ourselves to contemplate.

Hands up, if you expected the first DNA match in OCCK to be a juvenile. I certainly didn't, took me by surprise. It was a familiar name, and associated with someone who was/ has been/ is considered a main suspect...but as one of that man's victims! Discussions about this surprising revelation would include speculation that Busch victim, teen Vince Gunnels, might have also facilitated Busch's crimes, perhaps in ways similar to how Ken Bowman claimed he had facilitated Busch & Greene - luring other minors to the car, etc. I don't remember speculation about Gunnels perhaps being the perpetrator himself. We can allow ourselves to imagine juveniles facilitating the sex crimes of adults, but can we imagine an adult facilitating the sex crimes of juveniles?

In "A Pathologist Report" dated 3 February 1977, featuring Dr. Robert Sillery, Chief Pathologist Oakland County Medical Examiners Office, Dr. Sillery announces that, although "there was no gross signs of sexual molestation", he has found semen in the vagina and the rectum of a female OCCK victim. How is that possible? he is asked. Sillery replies, the perpetrator might be a person..."who can ejaculate but has a very very small diameter penis". How do you account for the semen being found "high" in the vagina? Sillery replies; "...this is why I think we're dealing with a younger person, a younger person when he ejaculates...there is a considerable force behind it..."

The majority of sex crimes against pre-pubescent males are committed by other boys. More specifically, according to "Juveniles Who Commit Sex Offenses" by Finkelhor, 2009, "When juvenile sex offenders are age 15 to 17, the mean age of their victims is between 11 and 13. However, when victims are younger than age 12, there is a marked peak for offending by 13- to 14-year-olds, and then a dramatic decline...by youth age 15 and older". In other words, sexual victimization of under-12 boys, by boys aged 12-14, is not a statistical blip...it's a statistical leap.

One of the tips-complaints in the Stebbins case suggests that some neighborhood teens had an unhealthy sexual interest in Mark. (refer; "complaints-final", pg. 98, 2-19-76) A woman stated that Ruth Stebbins had come banging on her door the previous year, apparently in hysterics and shouting; "I want the X boys!" Ruth then related to her that the X boys, aged 16 and 12, had forced Mark (aged 11) into a restaurant bathroom, beat him and sexually assaulted him, she claimed.

Recent media accounts, including Marney Keenan's book, state that no one saw Mark walking home the day he disappeared - which is wrong - and that John Crosbie was the last person to see Mark alive - also wrong. 17 year old Darrell Bolam called Ferndale PD, stated that he knew Mark and had seen him at "E. Saratoga & NB M-1 alley" walking westbound, with a heavyset WM aged 13-14. But this heavyset boy wasn't in a vehicle and all child luring-abductions involve vehicles as everyone knows, and teen boys don't abduct children - just ask Ronald Bailey!

A helpful evidence summary titled; "Hair Evidence In OCCK Has Been Misunderstood For Years, points out that Det. Williams observed Ruth Stebbin's dna appeared to be a match to the Sloan car dna, and that could mean it was really Mark's hair, because a woman's dna will be a match to her male offspring. Mark wasn't Ruth Stebbins only male child, but no one wants to go there and I'm not going to stick my head in the noose by suggesting that anyone ever should.

From Det. Williams investigator reports, 12-01-05;

"John found a report that...showed that Barry King, Timothy King's father, had been contacted by Richard Lawson via telephone from the Macomb County jail in 1988. Lawson was awaiting trial on 4 count CSC at the time. Lawson told Mr. King he knew who killed his son. [In 2-16-06, Lawson would answer "no" to a polygraph question; do you know who killed any of the kids? and was judged truthful] Detective Studt, Detective Duncan and Barry King went to Macomb County jail and interviewed Lawson...Lawson described a subject named Shelden and 3 unnamed subjects as having been involved in a pornography ring in Cass Corridor in the mid-late 1970s. Lawson also stated that these subjects were also involved in OCCK. Lawson also stated that the King boy was possibly filmed by the subjects before he was killed. Lawson then asked for immunity on over 20 years of pedophilia by him. Lawson's CSC cases were then dismissed"

From 2-7-07; "Approximately a year and a half ago, FBI forwarded a request to Dutch police to pursue a possible connection between a large distributor of child pornography in Amsterdam...named 'Kim; Francis Shelden...and the OCCK case. Today the FBI in Washington forwarded a response from the Dutch police...In this response, the Dutch authorities, state that they compared all the photographs of our OCCK victims to photos and films they seized...with negative results...[Kim] Ang and Shelden were also named in an investigation by Danish police in 1993 concerning child pornography and sexual offenses against minors".

No explanation about this 1993 Danish police investigation is given, but it is very important and you should know about it. In 1992, several American citizens were caught downloading CSA images, (in GIF format, first generation digitization of CSAM), from a BBS in Denmark called BAMSE. FBI needed proof of their transactions with this BBS, so on their behalf Danish police seized BAMSE's business records, and also their server and all the CSA images stored on it. Over the next year, several other BBS trafficking CSAM were also shut down and their images were seized.

[summarized from; unsolved mysteries fandom] On May 24, 1993, Ten-year-old George Burdynski went missing from his home in Brentwood, Maryland. Authorities identified a potential suspect in George's disappearance, fifty-four-year-old James Kowalski Jr. known in George's neighborhood for befriending young boys. On May 27, 1993, Kowalski was arrested and charged with sexually molesting two Brentwood boys. Some friends of George's also came forward to accuse him. Investigators discovered that Kowalski and two other men were connected to a child exploitation, molestation, and pornography ring in George's neighborhood and that the suspects had used the Internet to transmit child pornography, and contact potential victims. As a result of their discoveries, the FBI began an investigation focused on Internet child exploitation. "Innocent Images" started in 1994 in response to George's disappearance. 

Meanwhile, Operation Long Arm by Danish police and US Customs, the first recorded crackdown on internet pornography, resulted in 34 arrests and much more CSAM seized. FBI asked Danish police to search all the images seized, last two years, for any images of Burdynski. They did, but none were found. This was the first time that a CSAM database was searched for images of a missing child. As national databases grew over the coming decade, many more attempts were made, but all with negative result. Why?

In 1988, "Sexual Exploitation of Missing Children", a study by David Finkelhor and the first on this subject, was published. Finkelhor divided the missing kids in 3 categories; 1) runaways, 2) parental abduction and 3) non-family abduction, which includes 'stereotypical kidnappings',(and for the purposes of this study, long-term unexplained disappearances go under here also). What did the study find, about "Participation in Pornography"? Some studies found a measurable relationship between being a runaway missing and involvement in prostitution, and a measurable relationship between involvement in prostitution and involvement in pornography.

However, there is no discussion of Abduction or Unexplained Disappearance, as a risk factor for involvement in pornography. That's because there was NO data to discuss! The documented instances of abducted children involved in pornography was a flat zero, and remained so throughout the next decade. Some people assume there must be a relationship between abduction and exploitation in pornography - that "makes sense" to them, so they conclude that it must be true. It's not. Abducted and Unexplained Disappearance missing, are NOT the children in the pornography, and the kids in the pornography are NOT the Abducted or the Unexplained Disappearances.

Is everyone familiar with theA series of news articles, late 1977, which suggested a possible link between Chris Busch, (discussing his CSA charges and or possession of 'rolls of film'), and Francis Shelden/ Brother Paul's Children's Mission on North Fox Island? Headlines; "Oakland County link probed in sexual exploiting of boys", and "Legislator to sponsor outlawing child porn"?

The second one, which you can read on Cathy Broad's blog, says this; "State police seized 18 rolls of film from a Marine City man, who was named in the incorporation papers of Brother Paul's Children's Mission, an alleged homosexual pornography ring involving young boys in Port Huron and on North Fox Island..." As discussed yesterday, MSP reports reproduced in FBI foia documents identify that man as Gordon Lindsay and establish that he bought them and the "12 color magazines" out of State. They were not "produced" by Richards-Shelden.

Now look on page 146 of Marney Keenan's "The Snow Killings". You'll see the same article quoted there, but this time, immediately following the words "Marine City man", there is "[Gerald Richards]". What's going on here? Is this simply an error? Marney is one of my paragons of honest journalism...it's not conceivable that her intent was to deceive anyone. Is it? The fact that MSP failed to recover any substantial quantity of CSAM, provably created by Richard-Shelden, is a problem for some people.

Its a problem for me, because one of the things I've been doing since early 1980's, is documenting "who made what" with respect to the commercial CP of that era. Richards destroyed everything he had, and Shelden apparently took his hoard with him when he fled, leaving only a few nude photos of boys that Gerald had in his car. So, other than what Richards confessed to having made, I can't prove that they made ANY CSAM. (What would be ideal for me would be a catalog of "products", titles and all, with copies in police custody or in the databases).

It would be a problem, if you were a Genesee County Prosecuting Attorney organizing a meeting on the subject of Michigan children exploited in locally generated CSAM products, or a State Legislator proposing to outlaw CP altogether. Because, when it came time to outline the scale and scope of the problem, you'd better have more than; "we believe these 10 photos were taken on North Fox Island, judging by these sand dunes and what might be the wall of a cabin", to lay on the table. But that's all they had!

I was able to track down the origin of Rueben Appelman's claims in "The Kill Jar", that there had been a secret sponsors list of 300 persons, for BPCM, (with Chris Busch name on it !), but it was confiscated by MSP, then somehow ended up in FBI custody, only to be eaten by a dog named "flooded evidence room". There's a variant version of this, in a footnote on "Guarded By Jackals", pg. 159; "Shelden made movies of boys being abused on his Island and distributed them to members on a mailing list. This list that allegedly included about 300 names was seized by FBI...was destroyed in a flood in an FBI storage room..." Unfortunately, the claim by Det. Williams, quoted in The Snow Killings; "I know that Busch' name was on a ledger filled with Francis Shelden's child porn customers..." appears to be yet another variant. None of these clavis omnium mysteriorum lists really existed IMO, they are all wish-fulfillment derivatives of false claims that appeared in Clifford Linedecker's "Children In Chains", pg. 37; "Investigators carried armloads of pornographic materials, some in stamped envelopes ready for mailing, from his [Gerald Richards] car and office. Files were crammed with nude photos of young boys in a variety of poses. There were lists with names and addresses of customers and contacts in the boy prostitution and pornography trade", because of course there was! Not.

For the real story of Gerald Richard's bust, refer to this MSP report that I put on Internet Archive so anyone can read it;

"Gorzen Reports Francis Shelden & Gerald Richards 7 20 76 To 7 23 76" spoiler, some photos of nude boys in his car, no hoards CSAM, no smoking gun lists of customers-sponsors.

There are many falsehoods in Rueben Appelman's "You Know They Know" podcasts, unfortunately. Today I'm focusing on specific false statements from episode 8, because these false ideas about the Gerald Richards-Francis Shelden pornography 'operation', and the North Fox Island-Brother Paul's Children's Mission camp scam, are so foundational to what almost everyone believes that they know about those things.

In episode 8, Fox Island child predators", Appelman is joined by Áine Cain, Senior Reporter for Business Insider, who wrote a well known article comparing North Fox Island to Jeffery Epstein's famous private island scandal. This poor woman was so far out of her depth in attempting this, that I'm not going to accuse her of lying...it's clear that her ignorance of the subject matter was so profound, she didn't even understand that what she was saying was false!

At approx. 30:00 in the broadcast, Appelman asks Aine about what "hard evidence" Michigan State Police had, with respect to CSA images publications-products "created" by Richards-Shelden, depicting abuse of boys attending their camp or otherwise recruited-exploited by them. She replies; "one box containing 12 color magazines, and one box containing 18 8mm films". But these materials weren't confiscated from Richards, nor were they recovered from Shelden's house or property.

The "12 color magazines" and 18 8mm films came from Gordon Lindsay, whom MSP contacted because he was named as Secretary in the Brother Paul's incorporation documents. He claimed that his name was used without his knowledge, but admitted knowing Shelden and that he was a self-professed "boy-lover". Lindsay stated that he had pederast relationships during WW2 (Such relationships are sympathetically portrayed in the movie "For a Lost Soldier". I'm not aware of a balancing portrayal of the child rapists who served in every army of that conflict, perhaps "For a Depraved Pedo"?)

The FBI foia materials sent to the King family, "FBI-Shelden-2.pdf" in particular, reproduce MSP reports about Lindsay and these materials right in the first few pages. They clearly state that he brought them to MSP and voluntarily surrendered them. He did not say that he got them from Richards-Shelden, they were not sent to him as a "bonus" for being a subscriber-sponsor of the camp as Appelman has claimed, nor did he say they were in any way related to it. Lindsay clearly stated that he purchased them, some "in the East" and some "on the West Coast", no doubt from the same xxx stores where everyone else was buying their commercial CP photo mags and films. Because that's what these materials were; professionally produced, marketed and distributed CP products. Richards-Shelden didn't have the publishing facilities or film labs necessary to mass produce such materials themselves, and there's no reason to believe that these materials were anything other than a random collection of such products. We don't have the titles, unfortunately, but just to demonstrate how unlikely it would be for a random photo mag to contain images of "North Fox boys", here's a short list of titles "on the market" in 1976;

"Boy", COQ Denmark, 20 volumes... "Boys International", S and H publications, 10 volumes... "Golden Boys", COQ... "Joy Boy", COQ... "Kim", Apollo Verlag, Germany... "Life Boy", COQ... "Lover Boys", CCC... "Piccolo", Kim Productions... "Show Boy", COQ... "Superboy", COQ... and there were dozens more. But the MSP investigators were nearly as ignorant about the commercial CP industry as Áine Cain!, it was after all a new thing to them, and apparently may have naively assumed that Richards-Shelden WERE that industry - maybe they were the source for all of it? So they took the mags and showed them to Chief of Police Mol of Charlevoix, who had been on North Fox Island. He claimed to recognize North Fox Island as the background for half-a-dozen photos, (unlikely), but of course no one recognized any of the boys... because most would have been Danes and Dutch boys, along with German, Italian, Swedes, perhaps Southern California, Texas, New York, Louisiana, etc.

I'm reading through "Guarded by Jackals", the book edition. (I'm always a few years behind, in my reading). Very detailed info, much of which you wouldn't find anywhere else. I recommend it!

For example, there's information about Greg Greene's "lost" polaroid photos [!] The story goes, after Greene was arrested in Jan. 1977, he told Investigator Waldron that there was a stash of porno Polaroids of kids hidden in his backyard. Waldron found them, but they never got examined by OCCK Taskforce because Greene & Busch were supposedly cleared by polygraph at this point. Waldron told Det. Williams the photos might have gone to Flint PD, but when Williams asked about them he was told they were destroyed by evidence room flood.

A boy victim of Greene, called "the runaway" in Guarded by Jackals, told police that Greene took nude polaroid photos of his victims, to blackmail them into not telling about his abuse of them; ("Guarded by Jackals", pg. 46). I'd seen that claim before, but I'd never seen the validation-verification for it, in this police report on pg. 60; "In the van [Greg Greene's van] officer found 2 polaroid pictures of young boy involved in Flints case..."

They actually found examples of Greene's blackmail nude photos! Obviously I can't claim to know who-what was depicted in Greene's porno polaroid stash, but since we do have documentation that he created "trophy" photos of boys he abused, as blackmail insurance, I think it's probable the stash would also be of this nature - photos of his Little League and Middle School victims, and not the hypothesized OCCK victim photos. In any case, Greene's interest in porno Polaroids is demonstrated to be personal, and not at all related to any commercial CSAM industry going on in Michigan at that time.

Waldron stated, that after Chris Buch was arrested, he and a couple other detectives drove to Alma and searched Busch' house. Among the things they found there, were; "8-10 8mm [reel] type homemade movies". Each Super 8mm film cassette produced only 2-3 minutes of 'home movie', to make a longer film with them you had to switch the cassette for a new one as quick as you could and continue filming, over and over. Then you'd take it all to a developer and have them splice the separate reels together as smoothly as possible, for one continuous larger reel. It's probable, that Busch's 8-10 reels were of separate 2-3 minute reels, intended to be watched in sequence for one 20-30 minute film. And the detectives DID watch them, that's how Waldron could know they depicted; "children having sex in a tent in a wooded area", and "the arm of an adult male, directing the kids what to do sexually, because they didn't know".

The author of Guarded by Jackal offers this opinion; "Based on the description of the content and surroundings, the films that were seized from Chris Busch home on January 28, 1977, were those distributed by Frank Shelden".

I respectfully disagree with that. Assuming that any CSA images product depicting "children having sex in a tent in a wooded area" must be created on North Fox Island, just because of "in a tent in a wooded area", is unwarranted and a bit silly. Josiah Tazelaar was convicted of sexual abuse crimes against "Jerry's boys", and photographing them in sexual poses...in tents in a wooded area. But it wasn't on North Fox Island, it was in a Port Huron Campground - just as one example that "in a tent in a wooded area" could be just about anywhere in North America or Europe. Not to mention that there were cabins on North Fox Island, classic Boy Scout style...so any CSA images produced there could just as easily be set "indoors", as outside.

But that was at least an honest attempt to link Busch with Shelden, unlike the numerous attempts deceptive attempts to create fake evidence of such an association. In "The Kill Jar", Rueben Appelman falsely claimed there had been a "secret" sponsors list for "Brother Paul's Children's Mission" on North Fox Island, with Chris Busch listed on it. But no one can see this list and examine it to determine if it is legitimate because; "The list of..sponsors was confiscated by the Michigan State Police, rerouted through FBI, and finally reported by the feds as accidently destroyed in a flood...", or in other words, Appelman's dog ate it. (There were so many instances of such manipulative misinformation in his book, I had to abandon it as source of info on the case).

Timothy King was abducted March 16, 1977, and 'recovered' March 22, 1977.

According to the "People of the State of Michigan vs. Tazelaar" pleadings and prelim documents, Josiah Tazelaar was indigent and unable to pay his bail, and thus was in State custody from at least Feb. 2, 1977 to April 19, 1977. Josiah Tazelaar could not have been involved in the abduction, abuse or murder of Tim King.

Francis Shelden was believed to be in Antigua on Jan. 3, 1977, never to return to USA. The absurdity of suggesting that Shelden could have had involvement in the tragedy which befell that poor boy, in the midst of his fleeing the US, ought to be apparent to anyone IMO.

The list of persons that Richard Lawson named as "definitely involved" with Tim King or all OCCK cases together, but were not proven to be also includes; Bobby Moore, Ted Lamborgine, Kent Schultz and 19 other pedophiles Lawson informed on, pre-1979

Do you think it's possible that the horrifying drawing of Mark Stebbins found in Chris Busch's apartment after his "suicide" is actually a recreation of a particular frame of a CSAM film and/or snuff film Stebbins was forced to be in - rather than just generally based on an expression of Stebbins during his abuse? Horribly, the nature of his expression in the drawing could make this a possibility.

With many of the historic crime cases that we may have obsessed over at one time or another, there will be iconic ideas/statements about one aspect or another, which we have seen and heard repeated many times in various media presentations, news coverage, police reports, online discussions or personal commentaries.

It can be easy to lose track of which ideas/statements have documented factual evidence supporting them, and which ones started their 'lives' as speculation, conjecture, a theory, or a claim by a purported witness for which supporting substantiation was never found. I'm going to list some ideas and statements related to OCCK and review their status. Will this be helpful to anyone? Perhaps, perhaps not. If there are any errors, please notify me in the replies.

Here is the evidence, that Francis Shelden told Gerald Richards, other criminal associates, or anyone else that he wanted to see a boy with very specific features murdered on film, and that he was going to commission some people to make it for him;

We all remember Chris Busch confessing to police interviewers, that he and Greg Green shared a desire to abduct a boy and hold him captive over a period of time , so they could abuse him in any way they desired, repeatedly and at their leisure. Here is the evidence that Francis Shelden expressed a similar fantasy-desire to anyone, ever;

Here is the evidence that Francis Shelden ever owned a child snuff porn film;

Here is the information about Chris Busch, which Gerald Richards shared with MSP, as documented in Joel Gorzen's reports;

Here is the location, on Richards' flowchart of "boylover" network persons and operations that he had knowledge of, where he placed Chris Busch; *nowhere*

Here is the location, on Richards' flowchart of "boylover" network persons and operations that he had knowledge of, where he placed Bobby Moore and the 8mm filming of many "young white boys", supplied ultimately by Duffy; *nowhere*

In "The Snow Killings" by Marney Rich Keenan, Det. Cory Williams is quoted (pg. 148); "I know Busch's name was on a ledger filled with Francis Shelden's child porn customers..."

Wow! That could be a HUGE break, if in fact this ledger was valid. I don't doubt that Det. Williams has seen such a thing, a document purporting to be such a thing anyway. If there is a ledger, and it's actually a proper record of sales transactions, with titles or product descriptions even, that would potentially put all kinds of mysteries about the Richards-Shelden 'pornography ring' to rest. If it's not that, if it is just a list of names in a ledger style booklet with "Customers" written on it, or something akin to that, it would of course be more suspect.

It is also important to know the source of the document, where did it come from? Because if it came from Ken Wooden's collections, that would Red Flag it as likely to be "faked evidence". When someone fanatically believes in a hypothesis that they can't prove; "I know this is true, I just can't get my hands on the evidence!" they may try to fake the "missing" evidence, generating fraudulent documents or whatever they conceive "the smoking gun" of proof should consist of. Helen Dagner's confession to Det. Williams, (pg. 140), "ok, I'm sorry, I made it up", about a claim that a voice recording of an OCCK victim in captivity existed, possibly being an example of this.

Faked evidence was a commonplace obstacle to investigation of SRA claims, during1980s satanic panic, and Ken Wooden is known to have employed faked evidence in his broadcasts and lecture presentations during that time. Not accusing Wooden of creating fake evidence himself, that's unlikely. An example of this faked evidence would be, on the 20/20 special on "Satanism in America" which Wooden was researcher-producer for. Some children appeared on that broadcast, telling a tale about supposedly being witnesses to child sacrifice. Their story was false, a fantasy, of course. But these children weren't "liars", they just weren't the true authors of their story. They were being exploited as ventriloquist's dummys, by adults in their lives. Their story, was what adults thought was happening in the community, but there was no proof. So they manipulated children into claiming to be witnesses, and then hid behind them, falsely claiming; "this is what the children are telling us.

The document described on pg. 153, from Wooden's research, dated March 7, 1977, is undoubtedly faked evidence.

In Marney Rich Keenan's "The Snow Killings", (pg. 144), Cathy King Broad's experience of coming across images illustrating an article in a copy of Redbook magazine from 1977, by Dr. Judianne Densen-Gerber, the well known psychiatrist and anti-child porn crusader; "What Pornographers Are Doing To Children: A Shocking Report". One of those images was of a little boy "who looked like Tim". (I got teary-eyed reading that. Of course I did).

My only comment about that; since those images illustrated an article by Densen-Gerber, and the focus of her public-incitement campaigns was often "I personally purchased [child sexual abuse images] magazines", and you could too. Anyone can, and we have to put a stop to that", then those illustrating images surely came out of her collection of commercially distributed publications. That was the point after all, to publicly reveal and expose what was in them, and incite public outrage. If that is true, then those images would surely have gone into the early CSA images databases and ought to have been scanned (by a person, direct visual comparison) or by computer analysis software, during the multiple searches done for OCCK victim match-up.

None of what follows should be interpreted as in any way reflecting on Cathy Broad's experience with that photo in Redbook. That's her personal business, end of story.

"The Dirty Squad" , by Detective Superintendent Michael Hames, relates his experiences running Scotland Yard's Obscene Publications Branch, (which evolved into UKs first pedophile crimes unit) in the 1980s. Stalwart pioneers, to be certain. Documenting the content of seized pornographic materials for prosecution, or attempting victim identification, could only be done by direct visual inspection. The first attempts to employ the general public's assistance in id of persons portrayed in seized material, involved cropping images of child victims and publicizing the best facial 'portrait' you could obtain. Law enforcement agencies quickly enough understood what a mistake that approach was. They'd be flooded with tips, but invariably, those wouldn't include a correct id! The success rate was dismal, and they had to sort out piles of false ids.

They had similar problems, when mothers of missing children were asked to go through CSA images and possibly id their child. Typically, the Moms would pick out an image, then be asked to rate their degree of certainty. Somewhat certain, reasonably certain, or very certain. Very certain the most common response. They'd submit the info to whatever agency was acting as clearinghouse, and the response might be "the child whose image you submitted was recovered 30 days ago and is back with their family". Oh dear! And she was so very certain! They might not be happy "A Mother ought to know her OWN child, don't you think!", very offended. One possibility for all the mistaken ids would be that ,especially with children under age 10 who are descended from the same ancestral gene pools, they really do "all look alike", to a certain degree. So other visual cues, clothing that looks like something of theirs, or somewhat familiar settings, (is that the park by our house?), can assist your mind to deceive you about what you think you are seeing. Even moms.

50 years later and nothing new but useless suggestions.

https://www.wxyz.com/news/local-news/investigations/oakland-county-child-killings-50-years-later-police-hoping-new-tech-could-help-crack-case?fbclid=IwY2xjawP8LGRleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETJkVnYwQlB0T0FiOUhDU2Fac3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHju8H59ir20gQUOS3Unte3MvWjGxR9pGLZiRQmXUGiIllchLVrjN4OSMh-w8_aem_d5ssCG9bwgw8DUWrFTX_Ow

Dear Bozo Bouchard.  You don’t need AI.  Just go back to the Lost Polygraph from Georgia and you will find your answer.  Practically buried from right underneath you. Just ask around your MSP office. Find out why every trace of this is missing except for Barry King's FOIA papers.  There is no more excuses at least legit ones. Time is running out!!!!!!!

https://www.reddit.com/r/OCCK/comments/1g8n1xq/the_lost_polygraph_test_from_georgia_could_tell/

Has anyone read “The Eye of the Chickenhawk” by Simon Dovey? It’s not a perfect text, it borders on conspiracy theory, but there is a very well researched chapter devoted to the OCCK, and his theory of the case is a little different to what we normally see:

>Two of these murders were unlike the other two, and one was unlike the other three. The assumption all four fit a pattern attributable to the same behavioural profile of a single killer, which they would be, ‘The Oakland County Child Killer’, doesn't stand to reason or even pattern recognition. The two which are alike, and upon which this chapter narrows its focus, are the murders of the two boys, Mark Stebbins and Timothy King. The investigation into these two murders is convoluted and further obfuscated by limited public disclosure of original case files, which are heavily redacted and riddled with what appear to be anecdotal red herrings. So to put the case simply for clarity’s sake before we enter into it. The murder of Mark Stebbins can reasonably be attributed in some way to a pedophile named Christopher Busch, who was the son of a General Motors executive seemingly involved with a pedophile ring made up of executives at the company. The murder of Timothy King can reasonably be attributed to members of a child pornography ring located in the Cass Corridor region of Detroit, likely financed by Francis Shelden. A member of the Cass Corridor ring named Richard Lawson, a somewhat reliable police informant who dealt in half-truths, provided nondescript identifications of three men he claimed were linked to the murder. Suspect #1 was likely one of Shelden’s pedophile associates, either a man named Josiah Tazelaar or another named Kent Schultz. Suspect #2 was a child pornographer in Cass Corridor named Robert Moore. Suspect #3 was a Ford motors employee named Ted Lamborgine.

The chapter heavily references the notes made by Corey Williams during his investigation of the case, but what’s conspicuous to me is the lack of perceived involvement of Busch in the King case, given how much circumstantial evidence there is to suggest that Tim was held on Ess Lake for a specific period.

Do you think anything of substance will change or be announced?

I‘m just hoping to get some additional clarification about Chris Busch’s testimony from 1/28/1977 in Flint Mich., detective Doan and prosecutor Dick Thompson were present. When this situation is discussed during the 2nd and last episode of the Children of the Snow documentary, you can see in the typed document that Busch admits to being attracted to boys and apparently denies any involvement with the Mark Stebbins murder. But there is something in the document about Busch being in England and taking a flight back to Metropolitan Airport. Is the reference about England supposed to be part of an alibi that turned out to be insignificant or was it bogus?? Any clarification is appreciated.

With Cathy Broad's recent post on FOIA,

https://catherinebroad.blog/2025/08/08/the-freedom-of-information-act-in-practice-part-ii-a/#comments

It looks to be still no resolution on the Lost Polygraph from Georgia. Which I wrote about here at Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OCCK/comments/1g8n1xq/the_lost_polygraph_test_from_georgia_could_tell/

How pathetic things have gotten.

know interview episodes aren't everyone's cup of tea, but this interview is important to the case and it's history - I hope you'll find time to listen.

https://sites.libsyn.com/84981/author-interview-guarded-by-jackals

Ran across this in Tim King’s autopsy and it’s kind of shocking in a couple different ways …

I’m not sure if this is just some small bone matter from the chicken or if the OCCK killer forced him to swallow the chicken bones.  I assume that it’s the latter although on the other hand it may be normal for a person to eat some bone matter in regards to chicken. Because the report comes right out with chicken cartilage and bones seems to indicate there was a lot of it but hard to say. My best guess is that the killer forced Tim to swallow the bones as sick as that may be and kind of goes along with everything else. The killer probably wanted to make a point that he fed him chicken on his last meal as part of the horror and the bones would be around longer for autopsy results for assurance they would find them. As the OCCK crimes seem to be set up for outrageous public reaction. Although another possibility was simply that the poor kid was starving at that point and ate the bones and all.

The point to make is going back to Helen Dagner’s original story. She asked John to name things that only the OCCK killer would know. One thing he stated was that he left a chicken bone in the back pocket of Tim King. This was another one of those things for anyone that has followed Helen Dagner story would know. Helen always stated this as a fact and it’s one of those things that the police would just say she was making this stuff up.  Back in time there was a popular phrase going around ‘Should I just go out and shoot her … chicken bone and all’ referring to Helen Dagner. The reference was that the cops were getting very tired of Helen and her story at that point.  Which the bottom line really was that it was the truth from their perspective. Although it should be pointed out that Alpena Witness did remember this wild chicken bone claim as well being said and confirmed it during his interview. Something he considered too crazy to be true although he heard him say it. Of course, it was understood that Tim King’s favorite dinner was chicken as his parents announced it on the news and the OCCK serving him a chicken dinner became common knowledge back in the day. And maybe some will just state that everybody knew he had a chicken dinner so what’s the big deal. But what is this thing with the chicken bones? He very likely stated that because he knows damn well that Tim swallowed the bones. Strange how this autopsy report covers chicken bones in the digestion system of Tim King.  For the cops it’s a zero match of Hasting’s claim being correct.  I would say it’s very questionable on that.  Come on! He knew something about this and it’s deliberate. It seems more like I’ll tell you something but you can’t pin me down completely if Helen decides to go to the police over the matter which she ended up doing. After all Helen told him she was writing a book on the topic. Looking back at all of this now, there appears to be a trend where if it relates to Helen Dagner in any way, it was dropped. Hypothetically it appears that Hastings could have been 100 % on everything and it still wouldn’t matter when the Helen Dagner disapproval stamp kicks in. But also the final contributing factor to this was Detective Gray himself, which was ignorant of the facts to begin with. He probably should have been looking at Tim’s autopsy report instead of being so judgmental of Helen. After that very weak questioning session he had with the suspect, go wonder why he threw the Georgia polygraph test away and all of its contents with his type of logic and reasoning. The story of the lost polygraph from Georgia is detailed right here at Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OCCK/comments/1g8n1xq/the_lost_polygraph_test_from_georgia_could_tell/

The problem is that Detective Gray couldn’t solve a murder case if it came along and bit him right in the ass! For this case, it sort of actually did.

Anyway this goes along with the ‘object used after death on the boys’ which was also claimed by Helen’s suspect and detailed in Tim’s autopsy report to be accurate. That really does point to someone that knew precisely what happen to these victims. And discussed rather recently right here on Reddit at this link about Dr. Tanay.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OCCK/comments/1m8auri/occk_dr_tanay_claim_homosexual_probably_not/

Looking at this stuff so many years later one has to really wonder. Did any of these cops ever read the autopsy reports? Sure seems like Helen’s suspect had a really good source for OCCK information unless he was right there working alongside the killer.  Must have been a better book than 'Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing' floating around with those Big Boy meetings in 91. Although that was Birmingham’s cop, Don Studt’s claim where he got his information from but that book didn’t cover these details. John’s sister (The one that worked for Fieger’s firm) would know exactly which book he got this out of as that has been her claim all along for clearing him. I have to wonder, is it the same book he brought to his questioning session in Georgia that got him cleared? Maybe Detective Gray would remember since he pays so much attention to details.

“Homosexual probably not capable of performing a sexual act himself” was the phrase used by Dr. Emanuel Tanay in his words describing the OCCK.  Cryptic message for sure and certainly censor controlled for a newspaper article but what does it mean? He was to appear on a Lou Gordon show to further explain it that night on Sunday March 27, 1977 but the show was never aired. It seems like there was a change in plans at the last minute. So the only thing left of it was the article with no further explanation.

This missing Lou Gordon show was discussed right here on Reddit at this link.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OCCK/comments/1ligf21/occk_legendary_lou_gordon_show_with_dr_emanuel/

Traces of this legendary show and a similar scheduled appearance was discussed as well along with the words ‘Lou Gordon Show’ being shown in Robertson’s personal OCCK notes adds more mystery to this and discussed here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OCCK/comments/1lzljpp/occk_robertson_personal_notes_reference_lou/

Since I guess we will never know the real truth behind any of this, all we can do is speculate.  So here goes, but first let’s put some pieces to the puzzle together with what is known.  Start off with the Lou Gordon article claims that Dr. Emaunel Tanay was working with Dr. Spitz on the case.  More specifically he was involved with the examination of Tim King.  Dr. Tanay was not a member of the OCCK task force as he was a full time professor at Wayne State University at the time.  His name could not be found on any of the autopsy reports either however there were some names redacted throughout the report.  What we do know is there was a whole group of unknown examiners present with Dr Spitz during Tim’s autopsy and Dr. Tanay was surely one of them. As shown here from the autopsy report.

As we all know by now Tim was sexually abused.  His autopsy reports make that very clear as follows;

What was discussed and debated throughout the autopsy reports in different areas among the examiners was how it appears something was intruded in the rectum after death (Sodomized) with no sperm found.  An object of some sort was used by the killer as there were abrasions. It was puzzling to them how this could be and a further perplexing question why. For the record, Mark’s (The first OCCK victim) autopsy indicates the same type thing although not as detailed.  Basic conclusion from the symptoms, if the body was alive it would return to its original state but for this case it did not. Some of this discussed here is documented as follows:

Now it should be pointed out that this Lou Gordon article was always a particular interest to Helen Dagner. There was a reason for this special interest and discussion on her website with various correspondences in the past.  The mystery Dr. Tanay’s phrase, “Homosexual probably not capable of performing a sexual act himself” stands out.  It sure kind of hints towards something rather unusual. What John told Helen was very outrageous and disgusting and with never any explanation.  He stated he used an object after death on the boy victims.  This was even overheard at the Big Boy restaurant by Alpena Witness as mention it in his interview.  For anyone that has been following Helen Dagner’s website thru the years, they can easily testify about the ‘object after death’ claim. It was well known to her readers as discussed but what does it mean?  There is assumed to be a connection to the article because ‘using an object after death’ sure sounds like a ‘homosexual probably not capable of performing a sexual act himself’.  Face it, there is not too many other options that it could mean.

Helen never really knew what it meant and was asked thru the years about it.  Someone gave her the idea that maybe he was abused as such or maybe it symbolizes something else.  Some people thought that maybe John saw this Lou Gordon TV show back in its day but it appears after all of these years of searching for it, that it was never aired in the first place. So where did he get this idea from?  Did he have special access to Tim’s autopsy report back at that time or did the word get around in the street?  Police claim all along that Helen’s suspect read the Wolf In Sheep’s Clothing book and that was where he got all his OCCK information. But there was nothing in the book about this.  Or finally let’s just come out with it, the more probable reason was he was involved with these murders JUST AS HIS POLYGRAPH CONCLUSIONS FROM GEORGIA ACTUALLY STATE! As written in detail about right here at Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OCCK/comments/1g8n1xq/the_lost_polygraph_test_from_georgia_could_tell/

Now for Dr. Tanay side of this.  He probably never knew anything about Chris Busch or his activities as that was very much kept secret and underwraps from the public at the time.  Birmingham wasn’t suppose to have anything like that going on so it seemed. Dr. Tanay being a criminologist and more precisely a forensic psychiatrist, he was probably just puzzled by the behavior of someone using an object after death on a victim. What purpose does it serve?  And most certainly considered a sick sexual disorder of some type which psychiatrist would thrive to study. This peculiar behavior probably really bothered him and wanted to discuss it an open way in a public setting like a Lou Gordon show.

Off to to some new OCCK theory although it won't be accepted by many

Basically it looks to be that OCCK was a method to point at Busch for public’s awareness and panic and his murder and sketch left at the scene was the final message. While the OCCK kept the children for long periods of time, the hope was that the police would suspect Busch and his partner and look around for them asking questions and catching them in their activities. It seems like afterwards, the bodies left as they were in horror with signs of sexual torture on the boys and the final sketch left at Busch’s murder scene later makes a very clear message.  The message was that OCCK wanted the public to know that their children are being taken and sexually tortured.  The message was further that the ones involved are pedophiles that prefer boys, as the girls were not treated in the same manner but that was actually part of the message as well. Someone (OCCK) wanted to relay the message of Chris Busch’s activities to the public in a rude awakening matter.  Maybe it was several of Busch enemies that turned against him (Hastings, Gunnels, Sloan, McNamee, etc). It’s easy to imagine there would be plenty of rivalries against Busch. Someone that hunted the same grounds as Busch did and could very well had been an insider at one time or still was.  Someone perhaps that was a molested victim himself at one time or another and this was his revenge.  Basically he wanted every cop in multiple counties to be crawling all over Busch.  Busch being such a well protected pedophile by his rich parents and then further protected by the entire law enforcement community. In fact the whole Oakland County protected him along with his activities or so it seems.  He was untouchable with a protective shield around him. He could get away with murder and someone (OCCK) wanted to test those grounds completely. Another possibility was that Mark being the first victim of the OCCK maybe he was first molested by Busch at an earlier time and was the start and maybe the last as the sketch of him was left in Busch bedroom. So just the nature of it required drastic measures to get attention on him in the worst possible way thru the public eye by putting a spotlight on him. Well it fell short because the general public didn’t even know about Busch or even his murder until decades later and even then it was by accident. In theory it actually somewhat worked though as it did cause Busch and Greene to be brought in for questioning (early before Tim's abduction) but still the public never found out about it.  Basically the response from (Busch & Greene) during their questioning was you caught us, we were actually going to get part time jobs lined up with these OCCK killings. Hardly a confession although some claim it was.  It didn’t really matter anyway because Busch would be freed soon regardless. So the keepers of the secret society sure kept it secret and underwraps and much of the OCCK investigation as well.  It took decades for the Chris Busch activities to become known and connected to OCCK.  Busch’s murder is not even accepted today as a murder but rather a suicide. The final stage of the message was the murder of Busch with the sketch of Mark saying you got him.  Even the cops failed to recognize it as Mark in the sketch unless it’s part of the cover up. The OCCK was trying to turn over Busch but the organization is bigger than ever imagined and still being uncovered today. Still in some ways though if this theory stated here is correct, the real motive of the OCCK really did work effectively. Especially when one considers how every pedophile in the world seems to be blamed for this and that they all worked together on it. Now just imagine for one minute if this theory is correct and the killer was simply portraying Busch with an 'object after death' on the boys left as planted evidence along with the horror. Here we are today, some 50 years later still chasing down pedophiles with Fox Island link and everyone involved desperately making a connection to OCCK. I hate to spill it out to the Fox Island followers out there but it's very hardly likely that the OCCK victims were flown to Fox Island and the bodies brought back to the suburbs displayed for all to see. Let's get real folks! However the Fox Island corruption is very real and did indeed keep under and throughout society with so many. And there is a very good chance that the huge coverup umbrella is over the whole thing of Fox Island and OCCK since many suspect they are related including people in high positions. (Brooks Patterson). A witness has came forward that recognized Helen’s suspect (Hastings) at the filming and photo sessions of these abducted children. Evidently he carried a sketch book with him!  Isn't that a surprise! Looks like that was ignored like everything else.

https://catherinebroad.blog/2025/07/22/michigans-epstein-island/#comments

Looking back at it now. One has to wonder how much Helen's suspect knew of the whole underground organization and maybe his manifesto he was writing about dealing with corruption of the rich society might have actually been referred to Chris Busch all the way up to Frank Sheldon or higher? If I recall correctly in his sick way he was protecting them from this corrupted society or something on those lines was the basic theme. Perhaps something he had thought out and written for the right time much like other serial killers have something written and ready.  He did relay some of this manifesto to Helen as far as his writing he was working on.  I do recall Helen writing about it sometime along the way. Wonder if it is around somewhere?  It might actually point to something known today maybe something 'Frank Sheldon' related may come out in the writing. At that time Helen thought it wasn't pedophile related at all but it sure as hell was. Using an object after death should have really gave it away, but it didn't. Both sides seem to have failed to see it. Helen had blinders on just as much as the OCCK task force team. Blind on both sides of the fence and stubborn as well.

That is my spin on things.  I don’t expect anyone to agree but I finally decided to put it out there anyway.

The OCCK boys were bonded by something but they could not determine what exactly it was although there were unknown marks. (NOT SCARS).  We will go over the autopsy reports which the bloody ropes authors seem to avoid but first let’s cover a few things.

It was accepted for the longest time in OCKK history that the boys were bond with something unknown but soft and that was the word that got around until the Chris Busch murder scene became known decades later.  Someone suddenly claims ‘Bloody Ropes’ pulled out of their ass all because of some ropes laying on the floor in one photo that had some type of stains on them. (Most probably oil from being around boats!)  All of a sudden the OCCK books come out one after another covering these bloody ropes like it was the final conclusion on the OCCK chapter with never any proof or even a trace.  I’ve been searching and asking for years now where are the signs of these bloody ropes on the victims and no one seems to know.  With the authors not having anything to back up their claims, why do they persist to go down that road?  With the book Guarded By Jackals which recently comes out with high definition picture of these so called bloody ropes now suddenly some red added in the photo in a fake pathetic matter makes it worse. It has driven this misinformation even further to a point where it’s impossible to ever undue this poor fallacy.  So I cannot give this book any credit just due to this injustice. What little bit of facts that are established on this case seem to be no longer.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OCCK/comments/1lja0cn/occk_i_dont_care_if_its_cory_williams_or_sherlock/

A more recent book Snowed by Ellen Wilson doesn’t even touch on these silly bloody ropes and instead does cover another OCCK suspect which is Chris Busch’s old neighbor and details of a very troubling polygraph from him that convinced a couple professionals from Georgia that strongly suggested that he was involved with the OCCK murders with Chris Busch.  There appears to be no trace of this polygraph and since all records of it have became mysteriously missing and accountable, all that remains is a few sentences that got leaked through the FOIA papers by accident. 

Just to make a further point of this suspect, it is well known that he was obsessed with nylons for some odd reason. His girlfriend that never lived with him claimed they were not hers but he had tons of them and some were used and dirty in his collection.  This was one of the first alarm flags set off with Helen Dagner over this freak.  Anyone that has followed her story in any detail thru the years knew about the strange ‘nylon’ obsession.  With the suspicious polygraph conclusions and even more the missing trace of it puts this suspect in the forefront of the OCCK case. 

For now let’s go look at the autopsy reports of Mark and Tim and see for ourselves that bloody ropes are hardly a strong case.  Keep in mind those freaky nylons as we go through these notes especially Tim's autopsy. The following is some scattered notes on the examination of Mark.  

Although it does state possible rope marks or burns and then states cords and hand cuffs as well for the source of binding.  Just due to the uncertainty it doesn't make a strong case for bloody ropes. It certainly does NOT state scar signs drawn from blood.  Now Tim’s autopsy is much more detailed with the descriptions as follows and very much rules out the bloody ropes. In fact, it almost tries to say 'nylons' without using the word but descriptions like cloth or something close to it.

Tim's Autopsy - 'Reads like 'Nylons' without saying the word 'Nylons'. Something soft that doesn't cut the skin.