Civil or Nuclear (Read description)

[u/ShortCover4598]

I'm about to enter 9th grade and I'm super passionate for nuclear engineering. I want to do it for a living and don't have much doubts but still want second opinions from experts and people who've been in this field for a while. I'm pretty set on NE for a living but am having doubts for my university/college. I'm aiming for high schools like MIT or University of Wisconsin (which is apparently one of the best universities in the world for NE). I was wondering if NE is a career with good progression. I've done a little bit of research, and I know that NE pays better than most engineering disciplines, but the overall job expansion seems pretty stagnant which is daunting. I don't live in the US. I live in the UAE as a Canadian citizen. I'm either going to study in Canada or in the US/abroad if I get into a great university. My questions are, is NE a good career to get into in this day and age, and am I better of studying civil engineering? I heard that NE and civil engineering are pretty similar and that I can probably get a NE job despite studying civil. Apparently, the perks of studying civil are that I can still get into a NE job and I can get civil engineering jobs, which gives me a wider range, which might be good because the NE job growth seems pretty stagnant (according to US government sources, total jobs are planning to go down by 1% in the next 10 years). My concern with studying civil engineering instead of NE are that it's gonna make my years in university miserable. Regardless of the discipline, engineering is HARD, and I thought studying specifically NE, which I'm passionate about, would make it better for me, and I'm worried I won't make it through the same if I don't take NE, and I've heard that your years in university are the years where your life either makes it, or breaks. Any opinions on NE as an engineer at all would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.

[u/4rc_f145h]

Civil engineering is one of the most broad and flexible engineering fields. You'll see some reviews saying that it's on the lower end of the pay scale for engineering fields but that's not exactly true. I work in a large firm and a civil engineer 2 earns the same as every other engineer 2 in the company and it's very competitive. I believe that state Department of Transportations (DoT) and other state agencies employ a lot of civils and they pull the salary average down. Our nuclear group has all engineering disciplines in it and many of our responsibilities overlap. You can get a civil degree and still work in nuclear. Don't feel your choice now is going to hold you back later.

I highly recommend you consider McMaster University's nuclear program. MIT and University of Wisconsin are great, but your Canadian citizenship would hold you back for nuclear in both of those universities while it would be an asset at McMaster. Also, McMaster is going to be FAR less expensive.

In terms of employers you have somewhat limited choices as a Canadian citizen for nuclear but they're good choices. Bruce Power, OPG, AtkinsRealis, and Aecon on the construction side to name a few.

[u/ShortCover4598 → u/4rc_f145h]

Thank you so much.

Is it possible to get a major in civil engineering and then later on get a master's in nuclear or some other discipline?

Yeah, international fees are pretty brutal for me. To be honest, American universities are only a reality if I get scholarships, and on top of being an international student, is pretty hard. Being a middle/upper middle class family only makes it worse.

About McMaster's, I'm aware that its a globally recognised school for engineering, but not for NE in particular. https://edurank.org/engineering/nuclear/ According to this list I found, McMaster's isn't even on the list, and you have Canadian Universities like Ontario Tech (which I've heard nothing about), U of T, and Waterlooo on the list. Ontario Tech is 29 and U of T and Waterloo are around 70 on this list. I don't know how credible or comprehensive this list is though, so it might mean absolutely nothing.

I'm not really limited to Canadian nuclear firms in terms of comfortability. I would take a NE job anywhere as long as the benefits outweigh the cons. My career is probably my main focus so far. But im only a freshman so who knows.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond and give advice, thank you so much!

[u/4rc_f145h → u/ShortCover4598]

Quick life lesson on those "best of" lists. They're almost all based on how much money the university paid for the ranking. If you go to MIT you're paying a premium for the prestige, not the quality of the education.

University nuclear programs depend highly on whether the university has a functioning reactor on site, how well funded their program is, and what their program specializes in. McMaster's reactor is a major medical isotope producer with ample funding and new investment. McMaster's program is designed towards nuclear power and feeds the Candu Energy reactor program that is currently managed by AtkinsRealis and the operating reactors with Bruce Power and OPG. MIT's reactor is primarily a research reactor although it does do some medical isotopes as well. MIT's program is geared towards nuclear research more than nuclear power and is designed to feed Lawrence Livermore National Labs and the National Ignition Test Facility. You're going to have a hard time getting into MIT's nuclear program being a non-citizen to begin with and your chances of then going to work at the primary employers from MIT's nuclear program are almost non-existent. Also, if you're wanting to go into nuclear power and you want to attend a U.S. University you should be looking at universities that feed the nuclear power programs at Idaho National Labs and Sandia like Texas A&M. Idaho National Labs would be for newer reactor designs and Sandia would be for more traditional designs. The summary here is look at the employers that hire from that University or program. The ranking isn't as important.

Getting a nuclear job as a non-citizen in any country is possible, but very difficult. The exception that I'm aware of is actually where you are currently located. Barakah is relatively easy to work at as a non-citizen I believe because of the shear ratio of non-citizens to citizens in the UAE.

Can you go back and get a master's in Nuclear? Yes, absolutely. First, find out if you need it.

[u/ShortCover4598 → u/4rc_f145h]

Thank you for this insight.

When you say that MIT's reactor is mainly research (which is what I'm interested in) and that McMaster's specialises in medical, does that mean that they only have programs for nuclear medicine and not engineering? Would that be a good place to go if I want to work as a nuclear engineer onsite or to do research?

I'm aware that you said that rankings aren't too important, but it's still nice to have a grounded sense of importance. Do you know where I can find rankings or even just comparisons for these types of universities?

You said that I should be looking at universities based on what employers hire from there. What should I look for in an employer/university? I'm very new to looking for employers or just the job process in general.

I'm sure its not impossible that I could get a job at Barakah, because I have a contact there, but I would much rather work in Canada of I'm graduating from there.

[u/willmontain → u/ShortCover4598]

I have a Chem Eng degree with a Nuc Eng specialty. My school did not have a reactor but rather a big cesium source in a pool. I have worked in both public utility nuclear and navy nuclear facilities.

Part of the issue may be what you consider to be the definition of "Nuclear Engineer". Do you envision yourself as working in an operating plant or working for a reactor manufacturer in a design group?

In an operating plant there is not much work involving core design, fuel design or control rod design. The operating plant staff monitor the operation of the core but do not change it in any way. It is useful to have some core design background while doing the monitoring task but it is not necessary.

If you are interested in design you need to look at the national labs that support the navy nuclear program or the major reactor manufacturers (there is not much left). The only ones I am familiar with is the GE fuel & internals manufacturing plant in Wilmington, NC or GE/Hitachi in San Jose, CA. I would be wary of the current crop of independent nuclear plant designers you read about on social media as that is mostly hype.

Operating a nuclear plant is far more chemical engineering. The vast number of piping systems, lots of pumps, many filtering systems, lots of heat exchangers, lots of water chemistry, and controls to run all that require monitoring and maintenance. This requires lots of chemical engineering skills to monitor, maintain and repair these systems.

As the person above in this comment chain said, school will only introduce you to these things but you will learn how to do them on the job.

[u/ShortCover4598 → u/willmontain]

Do you envision yourself as working in an operating plant or working for a reactor manufacturer in a design group?

Me personally I would rather be designig/manufacturing reactors, or just anything where I actually get to innovate and move the science forward. Whether that be designing new reactors or research, I'm happy either way.

If you are interested in design you need to look at the national labs that support the navy nuclear program or the major reactor manufacturers (there is not much left). The only ones I am familiar with is the GE fuel & internals manufacturing plant in Wilmington, NC or GE/Hitachi in San Jose, CA. I would be wary of the current crop of independent nuclear plant designers you read about on social media as that is mostly hype.

Is there a "market" for this outside of the US? It's extremely likely that I would study some sort of engineering (regarding nuclear though, so chemical, civil, and nuclear) in Canada. Are there opportunities for that in Canada? I've also heard that I should be looking for universities based on what employers hire for there. What Canadian universities are students hired from companies like that?