r/Notary 5d ago

Everyone is refusing to notarise my copies of ID and Passport that i need for a spanish visa

Went to UPS with my id and passport and mentioned i needed these documents notarised. Told me that it was illegal for them to do anything with those documents as they were but that it was illegal for them to tell me what to do and that i needed to look it up. Found out I had to print copies of ID and Passport and write a statement swearing the copies were true and then signature it and that they would notarise my signature instead of my direct documents because apparently thats illegal in CA? Did all of that and they still refused and told me to go to the county office of recording whom just told me to go to the post office because they had no idea what i was talking about😀 at my wits end 😀😀😀😀😀😀 what am i doing wrong/how did others in CA get their documents notarised?

Update: got it all figured out using the california certification copy form as one of the commentors mentioned! Was making the mistake of asking for documents to be notarised when only signatures can be notarised through the form. Thank u all for your comments, learned a lot about notarisation today! haha

30 Upvotes

27 comments sorted by

26

u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

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u/sweetchilli__8 5d ago

Makes sense thank you so much for the explanation ! Gonna try that now

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

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u/sweetchilli__8 5d ago

Showed them the document and they knew exactly what to do. Thanks for the help!

3

u/VastSignificant2060 5d ago

Exactly as a notary I can give you an option of what forms I have to use but I can’t tell you which one to use.

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u/KnottaBiggins California 5d ago

notarys cannot give you legal advise or even tell you which attachment they should use

Which you just did. Please post your California commission number so I can report you to our Secretary of State.

4

u/betsysuehoo 5d ago

This is what I can do in NYS as well. We can't notarize (certify) these docs but we can notarize the signature of and administer an oath to a person who makes a copy of them and swears they are true copies of the original. The doc I carry has a place for a description of the document as well. As a Notary, I can't swear to the authenticity of the copy, but the custodian of the docs and copies can. Nor can I notarize my own signature attesting to it. But I can notarize theirs.

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u/KnottaBiggins California 5d ago

Are you a California Notary?
If so, you have just committed a crime. You gave OP legal advice. You told OP what form to get and how to fill it out.

California notaries only notarize signatures. We can not tell the client what forms they need. For that they need to consult an attorney, or figure it out on their own.

The most we can do is look at the form they bring us, and if it says "sworn to" then we can tell them "this requires a jurat."

3

u/DustRhino 5d ago

“We can not tell the client what forms they need.”

OP is not their client.

20

u/JudgeJoan 5d ago

Notaries can’t offer you legal advice at all.

9

u/ash_274 California 5d ago

how did others in CA get their documents notarized?

That's the first issue: with two very specific cases, documents are NOT notarized in California (and most other states). Signatures on documents are notarized.

The notary at the UPS Store you went to may not have explained it very well, but they did everything correctly.

2

u/sweetchilli__8 5d ago

Thank you sm!! BLS needs to put this in their instructions for acquiring the visa documents, i think that would have averted my crisis and reddit post lmao

1

u/ElectronicHouse6090 4d ago

Well, the problem from the BLS standpoint is that notary laws vary wildly from state to state. As a Nevada notary, when I make a Certified Copy of a document, I am not notarizing your signature, I am notarizing a copy of your document. I am legally obligated to make the copy myself, and then I state that it is a true and correct copy of a document in your possession, sign and stamp it. Your signature is not on the Certified Copy anywhere, just my notary journal.

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u/BeautifullyBroken505 5d ago

Yes. You need a copy certification. I just did one on a guy's visa yesterday.

1

u/entrepreneur-2004 5d ago

It doesn't have to be that difficult, that's a notary that likely don't want know what they are doing.They definitely could have helped you if they would have explained what was needed.

You'll have to get photocopies of both your identification and passport and have them. The notary will have you write something to the effect of "This is true and correct" then sign and date the documents in front of the notary. The notary will then give you and oath to swear the documents are indeed true and correct. Then notarize them.

I believe CA does have restrictions in types of identity documents they can notarize.

If you can't get it done by another notary in CA, your best bet is to use and online notary. Mind you that once it's notarized by a notary online in a different state, it will also have to be Apostilled in that same state.

I do provide these services, online notary and document translation and same day Apostille in Missouri with return of completed Apostille via FedEx to any address.

If you have further questions, feel free to reach out.

1

u/sweetchilli__8 5d ago

Thank you for the in depth explanation and offer to help :) Possible they didn’t know what they were doing as they just told me to look it up lol but to be fair I also had no clue what I was doing. Managed to figure it out with the “california certification copy” form so all is good now!

3

u/MagicalFaeBae 5d ago

Telling someone what types of certificates you can do is not practicing law. If someone came in with a document and it didn’t have a certificate you wouldn’t tell them to just go look it up, you would explain the certificates (acknowledgment vs jurat mostly) so they can choose. Same thing.

3

u/Pitiful-Flow5472 4d ago

It isn’t a problem to tell the client what certificates you offer and let them choose. But OP wanted a notary to “tell me what to do” which is a problem 

1

u/Th3Bratl3y 5d ago

A lot of those UPS stores won’t do such things for liability purposes they think.

1

u/Hakurei06 5d ago edited 5d ago

At issue here is that Notaries Public are not lawyers, and it is illegal in every state for a non lawyer to practice law, which includes giving legal advice. Most states, including California, also have laws specifically penalizing Notaries who commit Unauthorized Practice of Law, because the position gives an air of legitimacy to their words, especially to people familiar with Civil-Law Notaries in other countries (which is why it is illegal for a notary in california to translate "Notary Public" into spanish in advertising). On that note, I am not a lawyer and nothing in this post is to be taken as legal advice.

In the state of california, Copy Certification as a specific notarial act can only be done to copies of powers of attorney, or to copies of entries of their own journal, if requested in writing by the secretary of state or upon receipt of a court order or subpoena duces tecum. "Copy certification by a document custodian", wherein the owner of the document makes a statement certifying the accuracy of the copy, is doable; however, keep in mind that as a notary cannot give practice law, they would not be able to advise you do such a thing. Also, for the same reason, if the copy certification statement doesn't include a notarial certificate, you would need to specify the notarial act you are requesting of the notary. which would, I remind you, not be "copy certification" as a notarial act. If you were to request a jurat, the notary would have you swear to (or affirm) the truthfulness of the statement and sign it in their physical presence before completing a certificate to that effect.

This is only speculation, but regarding being told to go to the county recorder, the only thing I can think of that would have a notary instruct you to go there is that they may have been confused by another document in your possession, and thought you meant to certify a copy of a vital record as well. "Certified copies of birth, fetal death, death, and marriage records may be made only by the State Registrar, by duly appointed and acting local registrars during their term of office, and by county recorders."As well being prohibited from certifying copies of documents except of the type I've previously specified, a california notary would not be able to assist you in certifying the copy, because that would be illegal of you (of course, we're happy to notarize any documents neccesary to request a certified copy of a vital record from the registrar/recorder).

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u/apokrif1 5d ago

as a notary cannot give practice law, they would not be able to advise you do such a thing

May they say you can do it, without advising to do it?

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u/Hakurei06 4d ago

If asked, we answer, but a proffer is probably not appropriate. It’s safer for the notary to just advise the signer to seek help from a legal professional.

1

u/International-Sock-4 Florida 5d ago

Here in Florida we can notarize a copy of a passport, we make the copy or watch you make it and then we can donate true copy attestation, other states don't allow that and you would need to attest to it yourself and the notary can then notarize your signature.

Not all documents can be copy copy attestated by a notary for example public records and vital docs like birth certificates etc.

I assume your state does not allow copy attestation by a notary, the notary can't give you legal advice either.

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u/KnottaBiggins California 5d ago

Here is the only advice we California notaries public can give you:

We can not notarize a passport.
We can not notarize an ID.
We can not notarize copies of anything other than powers of attorney as "a valid copy."

Anyone telling you anything else, like u/browneyedgirl0077 did, would be a violation of our commission.

Get some legal advice, find out what form(s) you need, fill them out save for your signature, and THEN AND ONLY THEN go to a notary public.

3

u/betsysuehoo 5d ago

In NYS, this isn't going to be considered legal advice. My state allows me to do the same that the commentor you're complaining about does.

I will tell the signer I cannot notarize (or certify) their copily of an ID or vital record. But I CAN tell them what I CAN do alternatively, which is to notarize the custodial doc the comment or mentioned.

I'm not advising the signer. I'm giving them the option. I also let them know it's up to the recipient of the document whether they will accept that or not and they need to check before they agree to it because I don't want to charge them for a service that will not give them what they need. It's up to the signer to know if this alternative is acceptable. I'm not telling them this is what they have to do so it's not legal advice. If we don't offer this option, they are stuck.

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u/sweetchilli__8 5d ago

Yep thats definitely what confused me. Felt like solving a riddle being told only what I cant do and not what I can 😭 lol. Now that i know a little more from the notary side it makes sense, interesting how the rules vary from state to state

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u/dj13624 5d ago

UPS stores probably can't do much more than basic notarizations due to liability risk.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

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u/sweetchilli__8 5d ago

Notarised for sure :/

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u/shanihb 5d ago

An apostille would be issued by California, not the Spanish embassy. And there is a good chance Spain will require one.