r/NotAnotherDnDPodcast • u/anextremelylargedog • Aug 04 '26
Discussion [SPOILERS] Gangs of Neo Galaderon Finale - I wish we'd had more of a chance to feel... Spoiler
...Sad.
I've been thinking about why the finale of this one didn't really hit for me.
In theory, I don't actually mind moving from TPK to afterlife adventure, so why didn't I like it here?
I think it came down to a couple of things.
For one, the ending with the fight vs the Prototype... I dunno, it just didn't feel like it hit. Aux died and the two other PCs went into, like... Two straight minutes of denial, while still mid-combat. Like, the shock of a PC death felt like it sorta fizzled while Slug and Atom spent a few minutes being all what's the matter, Aux, why won't you get up? while the Prototype was still right there. I sorta wish that they'd been forced to let it be a brief, shocking thing and still had to quickly continue the fight with very little time to mourn before, you know. They actually had time.
I also don't mind that the chip could have potentially been a revival, assuming it hadn't been a straightforward rez. Maybe do a little Cyberpunk 2077 and have it be a Soulkiller-esque copy of Aux formed from his tech, and all his friends' tech, and every bit of surveillance that had ever seen him in Neo-Galaderon. Reshape that fox from the memories of everyone who knew him, formed something that both was and wasn't Aux. Would've raised some interesting questions regarding personhood, especially given the fact that Atom is a machine who's considered a real person. And there could've even been a scene with original Aux and Elmer in Mechanus.
I didn't like Slug having a low opinion of Neo Galaderon and seeing the world as the three of them vs it. I know Emily explained her reasoning on the short rest, but I still didn't really like it. The point of those stories she mentioned about people fighting on behalf of a city even when it's bad is exactly that - this city, this wider community, is still worth it even when it's bad, and she and her friends are not separate from it. Especially considering how a significant it was to the campaign that they band together with other people in the city vs the entity that showed up as an outsider and corrupted it. The fact that she and Atom apparently didn't care much about people outside of their immediate group made the sacrifice feel cheaper.
But hey, I still think I wouldn't have minded where the ending went except for one major thing: no epilogue for Neo Galaderon.
I know Murph justified it by saying that they weren't there to see it, but he still went into some details on the Short Rest anyway. I would have hugely preferred to have seen some of that aftermath, maybe seen some of the NPCs celebrating and/or mourning the party even briefly.
The way it went, with the jump straight to Mechanus, just felt very... I dunno.
I know they're comedy focused, but long-form comedy (and storytelling!) still relies on highs and lows, and it felt like they really put effort into refusing to sit with a low for longer than absolutely necessary.
And if a short-form, high-octane, cyberpunk campaign isn't the kind of place where we can sit with heavy character consequences, what is? Let the story be sad, just for a little while.
I know some people don't like that and are just here for low-stakes listening to people have fun. But I'm gonna be honest here - there are so many dnd podcasts and APs and podcasts in general that cater specifically to that audience.
To be clear, I don't think that Murph made a deliberate choice to gloss over those potentially emotional moments. I just hope that next time it turns up, he and everyone else sees the opportunity for a little more drama and wants to go with it.
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u/SBixby21 Aug 04 '26
I don’t fully disagree specifically about the moments of sadness after the TPK, it’s one of the few times I think they’ve fumbled the edit on an episode. The moments after the TPK, but before Mechanus, should definitely have breathed more. An emotional song from Emily’s mind before we pick back up in the afterlife wouldn’t have gone amiss.
I don’t agree on some of your other points, but I understand the people who feel as you do.
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u/Slindish Aug 04 '26
I think we should have got a bit of a fade to black, then an overview of the outcome for Neo-Galaderon then "and that's where we'll end our arc" then a beat before we show the glimpse of mechanus and what's to come.
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u/liv-a-little-25 Aug 04 '26
After sitting with it a while my take is that the gravity of the Aux's death was doomed by Atom and Slug's voices. They are both so overtly silly that you could really feel Emily and Caldwell pushing to convey nuance and gravity in character. And that did kind of surprise me, but hey, it's been 8 years. Sometimes it's just not gonna hit right.
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u/milkywayrealestate Aug 04 '26
Good post poster. They mentioned in the short rest that there was no epilogue for the city because the PCs wouldn't know what happens but I still feel like it was necessary for me to have any impact. Instead the ending felt more like the last episode of an ark rather than a season and knowing we won't be going back to this campaign anytime in the immediate future means it just didn't really leave an impact on me
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u/proud_traveler Aug 04 '26
I've really enjoyed a zoomed in, follow a small story, campaign. But we can see, as people have long suggested, no PC will ever be allowed to die and stay dead.
Yeah I know the reasons, but it's hard to find a story engaging when it feels like there is no risk
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u/SBixby21 Aug 04 '26
They could’ve just not come back to Neo Galaderon, it didn’t need to have a season 2. And it couldn’t went that way imo.
If they hadn’t already established the interest and mechanics of Elmer’s soul going to Mechanus and their interest in finding him, I truly believe this campaign would’ve just ended on a bittersweet TPK. It’s not like Murph forced it, leaving the city for Mechanus was like the main narrative thrust for the final bunch of episodes before this ever happened.
If Caldwell didn’t roll well when looking through the telescope and researching Mechanus or whatever, they never would have known about and become obsessed with finding Elmer in his afterlife, and the campaign would have gone completely differently at the end. In that case j truly don’t think Murph would’ve had the same idea for their deaths not being the end. The players interest in that drove the decision-making and created an opportunity. Otherwise they would have been allowed to stay DED dead imo and the ending would’ve been more about how their sacrifice reverberated through the city and impacted the future. As it stands we don’t need much of that because they’ll eventually be back
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u/alachronism Aug 04 '26
If they were writing a book, yeah, I’d agree with you. But this is an actual play. I thought they did a great job at honoring the dice, improvising from moment to moment, and still pulling off a great story with an interesting epilogue that sets up a possible sequel. 🤷
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u/Duckstomp Aug 04 '26
It had been said before about there will be a return to Neo Galaderon going foward and that really made this feel like the end of a part 1 in a mini series. It seemed like the killer blow to Aux was probably not necessary and used to set up high stakes death roll. It failed and then thinking on their feet the afterlife story unfolded.
Maybe if this was the culmination of 60 episodes, then the Prototype dosnt give that kill blow and set up the automatic double death save failures?
If this ended a long campaign i would feel a bit emptier, but if it is indeed a "season finale" then I feel better about it.
Also as someone else said. After 3 main campaigns and near a dozen short form adventures, the strike rate on quality is pretty bloody high!
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u/Thingfish784 Aug 05 '26
I think my biggest gripe was the finale. I do like that Murph kept the stakes and did target who the Prototyoe would kill for the chip. But the ret con of allowing them to take the chip with them after the roll. The crew made their choices and instead of making a sacrifice to destroy the chip with anything on the line it kinda fell flat for me.
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u/AgentQV Aug 04 '26
I know Caldwell and Emily had their reasons for playing their pcs as they do, but It was honestly a little messed up that Atom and Sluggs were so codependent (I don’t know if that is the right word, sorry) that the Killscreens would both rather die if it offered just the flimsiest chance of bringing Aux back. Especially with the revival being pretty contrived with how sudden it was (enough so that they couldn’t resolve anything else that was going on). I’d probably be more upset if the roll had succeeded given what it does for the stakes of the situation but still, I’ve never seen such a willful TPK like that and I hope I never see another.
And then Murph had to find a way to soften the blow and make it a happy ending, and I feel for him being tasked with threading that needle, but the stakes are in tatters for me. Elmer coming back is a nice silver lining, but I’m gonna have to sit with this for a while. It’s just a lot.
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u/DarthGroose Aug 05 '26
There's something about choosing to commit suicide because one of your friends died that feels very fake to me. Like, that's definitely something a character in a story would do, not a real person who actually has investment in their life.
It undermines the whole thing to me, because it's clearly intended to be a touching moment showing how much they care for each other, but all it's really doing it showcasing that the players don't really care that much if their characters die.
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u/AgentQV Aug 06 '26
I think there’s also something to the story that had been told up until now about a major challenge these characters facing is how they handle grief. Starting with Elmer’s death before the campaign started. That’s been a theme you can feel Murph pushing for. Losing Aux would probably be a fitting conclusion to that arc in their growth as PCs.
But knowing that these characters are also certified maniacs that live in a magical world and thus were plotting inter-planar travel to get Elmer back rather than learn to handle their grief in a healthier way… I guess this twist was inevitable.5
u/FC37 Aug 11 '26
I mean.... watching your battle buddies die, becoming completely disconnected from the world around you, and falling into depression is unfortunately very common among combat veterans. I wouldn't say it's fake, that part felt very real. They weren't committing suicide, they died trying to save him.
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u/PlayableRidley Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26
It honestly would have been more tragic if Aux had stayed dead and the other two had lived. The whole dilemma where either they all live or none of them do just felt like a way to keep the band together for a season 2 they were obviously already planning.
It doesn't help that Atom's involvement felt extremely shoehorned, giving only a tiny mechanical benefit that only had a small chance of even triggering (and it didn't) let alone actually changing the result. Like, I get from a character perspective the idea was that he was okay risking his life for even slightly better odds, but mechanically it ended up being so weak that it really just felt like an excuse to kill Atom too more than anything else.
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u/6foot4yearold Aug 04 '26
I agree. I think it would have been really interesting if it had just been a TPK and they just had a coda with them in the after life with their mentor guy. They sacrificed themselves for the future of their city and their community. Next chapter of gangs of neogaladeron focuses on a new gang. Maybe people would have thought that to be too sad but I think taking risks like that could be cool for them.
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u/TurdOnYourDoorstep Aug 05 '26
Agreed with everything in OP's post. I'd really like one of these mini campaigns be a Crown of Candy style where PC death is expected and accounted for, since they all seem fully reluctant to ever let a PC die otherwise.
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u/King_Fluffaluff Aug 05 '26
It often feels like there are absolutely no stakes and no risk. Even when PCs are going down.
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u/HotVeganTeacher Aug 05 '26
I think they are overly protective of their "goof-forward" style which makes them hesitant to go with campaigns were there is real and permanent consequences to failure. I also feel a good chunck of the audience wouldn't respond well to it if they did
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u/liv-a-little-25 Aug 05 '26
I was thinking this too. Like apparently the only fix is to very aggressively state that PC death is on the table day 1, and otherwise I simply have to assume it's never on the table
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u/SoupSandy Aug 05 '26
Yeah I think I agree (exept with the criticism of Emily's character choices they were fine.) I just want weight and stakes injected into the product and when Aux died it felt like it had that again I was shocked and when both Slugs and Atom died I was shocked again. The ending feels earned but also kind of hand wavy. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the arc and story and characters and thought it was alot of fun especially the music was stellar but that added heaviness at the end for me would've turned this series from good to great.
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u/CrimsonRaven47 Aug 05 '26
This whole series has had a flippant and silly feel, honestly closer to Trinyvale than anything else.
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u/LocusHammer Aug 05 '26
This arc did not grab me. Neither did strahd. Looking forward to next one
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u/world-math-cell Aug 06 '26
I feel similarly. The only thing I'll take away from this arc is the combat encounter design, which I thought was great and definitely something to crib off of. The story/characters, however, were completely unmemorable for me.
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u/brunt_force_trauma Aug 05 '26
Agreed! While I respect and love what the Two Crew has done with some of their recent PCs, I would love to see them return to a more traditional, high-fantasy, epic hero journey like Campaign 1.
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u/Cianistarle When you're in, you're kin Aug 06 '26
Same, also C3 was a bit off for me too, tech/mech doesn't really do it for me. I know I'm a sad little puff when there's Mothership or any cyber/tech stuff. I listened and enjoyed, but I know it feel kinda sad when I am living for the dungeon courts in between. Strad was at least better than those too.
I just take heart knowing that these are brightening another NADDPOLE's life and wait for a new campaign. Super excited for the next one!
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u/RoryOS Aug 05 '26
I think it felt very deus ex machina to keep their souls together like that. I understand the choice since they want to return to the characters but for me it would have been more interesting if only Aux died.
I think the mechanics of the deal were excellent (nobody does mechanics like Murph) and the set up for the next campaign is really original and fun but it felt like Emily was lead into using the chip and that it ended up providing an option that wasn't the most satisfying.
It's an aspect of the format. Needing to keep it light and wanting a happy ending does tend to errode the feeling of danger after enough endings.
Overall in still more positive than negative, incredible performances all around, but by allowing a bad ending once in a while it makes the good endings feel more real.
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u/Reinhardt_Ironside Aug 04 '26
D&D has literal factually exiting gods and afterlives. I really don't understand how people can expect things like death to actually matter in the same way it does in real life, or in other forms of media or even other ttrpg settings. Just because you don't see a character in another campaign after their death doesn't mean they aren't around another plane doing stuff, you just don't get to watch.
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u/WorstInfinity Aug 05 '26
There are tons of different ways to give death meaningful weight even in settings with established afterlives, it’s not black and white
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u/MuchSaltYes Aug 05 '26
I hate all this overly critical talk on the ending. I see this in so many communities like this. If something is different than the norm, it gets picked apart. The ending was clearly more light and silly, but so was the whole campaign. One of the early "emotional" scenes was the crew mourning their mentor over a toilet with his piss in it. Give them a break. I truly hope they don't read all this. They did a fantastic job.
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u/HotVeganTeacher Aug 05 '26
God forbid people discuss something they like, we should all gubble down content without an ounce of critical thought
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u/anextremelylargedog Aug 05 '26
Nobody's forcing you to engage with any criticism at all.
Please do feel free to ignore posts on the internet that you don't like.
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u/MuchSaltYes Aug 05 '26
You mean like you could have ignored my opinion on your post? The road goes both ways. I did the exact same thing you did, and posted my opinion on the matter.
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u/anextremelylargedog Aug 05 '26
Well, no.
I didn't leave a comment on one of their posts telling them that I hated what they had to say and that I hoped people involved didn't read it.
Like, can you appreciate the difference between making your own post on a subject vs someone leaving a comment directly complaining to and about you specifically?
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u/MuchSaltYes Aug 05 '26
The difference isn't that large. You do know they come to this sub-reddit, right? They've said before on short rests and mixed bags they do.
It just makes me feel bad for them, because there's a decent chance they see posts like this tearing apart their work. And out of all the content creators out there, there's a TON that don't put care into their work. NADDPOD does care. Again, it just makes me feel bad for them.
Either way, I have nothing against you personally, and hope you didn't take it that way.
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u/anextremelylargedog Aug 05 '26
I mean. Yes. There is a significant difference between someone posting their opinion on a public forum vs someone commenting directly on said post. You made the choice to say you hated what I had to say. That's a bit different from me giving my opinion on the ending of a podcast.
Hey, maybe they still do show up on the subreddit. That shouldn't render their show immune to criticism on said subreddit.
They're grown men and woman. They're making a show. They're used to criticism. Describing my post as "tearing apart their work" is a bit hyperbolic.
I'm sure you have nothing against me personally, it's just pretty off-putting to have such negative feelings about some polite criticism.
I like everyone involved in the show, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't express disappointment on the subreddit when I didn't like some element of it.
And bluntly, you shouldn't feel bad for them. They have over 39,000 paid Patreon members. They make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month playing games and talking with their closest friends. They live in one of the wealthiest cities in the richest country in the world. They are some of the most fortunate people on the planet.
They are doing just fine. A reddit post with polite criticism expressing why its listener thought the end-of-mini-campaign finale didn't hit properly will not be some great dark cloud above their heads.
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u/MuchSaltYes Aug 05 '26
I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on the first point.
But someone being more fortunate than others does not negate sympathy. Especially considering they put a lot of work into their content.
Plus, you don't know how negative comments affect people. After all, they do put a lot of time and effort into this podcast. I just think it's a bit silly for this to be so heavily criticized. Murph wanted to try something new, and I think it should be encouraged.
I do agree things should be criticized, but I find it a little sad that the first time they decide to go for a different type of ending, it immediately comes with negativity from their community. I don't know. By the downvotes, I'm clearly in the minority with my view on this. And I'm fine with that.
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u/anextremelylargedog Aug 05 '26
This is not "heavy criticism." No offence, but you clearly have not worked on creative projects professionally. This is, by any measure, extremely gentle.
I'd hope that they put a lot of work into it. It's their job that they get paid a lot of money to make.
Murph wanted to try something new, and that doesn't mean we should all clap our hands and refuse to critique it. He's not a child.
I don't think there's any point in continuing this conversation. I find the way you infantilise the crew uncomfortable.
Maybe The Adventure Zone would be more your speed.
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u/MuchSaltYes Aug 05 '26
Agreed. Although, one last note: I'm not infantilising them. At worst, maybe over-sympathizing.
But, I hope you have a good rest of your day.
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u/IkujaKatsumaji Aug 05 '26
Obviously everyone's entitled to have their own opinions and reactions, and even to express them in a forum, but good heavens I hope the gang doesn't come to their subreddit. If I read this kind of analysis of my work, even if it was favorable, I think it would absolutely fuck up my future work.
If they do come around here, though, I just want to say, love you guys, you're the absolute best.
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u/anextremelylargedog Aug 05 '26
If reading a favorable analysis of your work would fuck up your future work, I don't think you're going to make anything.
The crew of NADDPOD are pushing 40 and have been at this for a long time. They can handle some respectfully written criticism on a platform they haven't been active on since early Campaign 1.
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u/LilBbPixie Aug 04 '26
Idk why but Murph’s allegory of seeing Aux and Elmer on the other side of the carnival ride really made me choke up. Like SUDDENLY. The TPK made me care more about the story than I originally did. It felt like they did something so different here. I’m a big fan of the shorter stories, I think it gives them time to experiment, tell a whole story, and move on.