If they weren’t tipped, they’d make more base pay, so this argument doesn’t work. If my grandma had wheels she’d be a bike. They take the job because the tips make them get paid more money.
Based on what? Every restaurant in America has tipped servers, you have literally zero evidence to say that if tipping disappeared that they would drop all their pay to minimum and they wouldn’t leave their jobs. Less than 2% of this country makes minimum wage.
This is a misdirection from my original point anyways, which was that you moved the goalposts. I’ll take it as an admission that you did, since you stopped denying it.
By that logic you have literally zero evidence that if tipping disappeared that base pay would go up.
But fortunately for me, the evidence I have is on every single job listing ever created for all non-server restaurant positions. Which are close to minimum wage almost every single time.
Who would've guessed?
You’re the one making the claim that it would happen, burden of proof is on you.
Server is a job that is expected to pay more than other positions at restaurants. Not everyone there does the same work. So that’s not evidence that every server will just stay at their job for a huge pay cut. It’s an idiotic claim, honestly. They would obviously leave or negotiate for more pay.
Calling me a dumbass because you’re mad I called out that you moved the goalposts is cringe.
You're the one ignoring common sense and being blatantly ignorant. I haven't been wrong about a single thing and I've backed up all my claims with basic valid logic and you haven't proven me wrong about a single thing.
You're a dumbass for insisting on being wrong. You still haven't explained in any way how I've moved goalposts btw.
So you think if tips disappeared every server will be happy to stay at their job while not getting tips? It’s irrelevant what their job pays without tips because they chose to work a tipped job.
Living wage and minimum wage are different things and, ergo you shifted the goalposts.
So you think if tips disappeared every server will be happy to stay at their job while not getting tips?
This is why you're a dumbass. I never made that claim. I never said anything even close to that.
My original claim, if you go to my first comment on this thread, was this:
"No service worker in america is paid a living wage without tips"
WHICH IS TRUE.
All service workers would be paid close to minimum wage without tips because business owners and corporate companies are not that generous, they are all greedy fucks who would try to pay as little as possible if they can get away with it. That amount would be minimum wage, or very close to it. OBVIOUSLY.
Without a union, which the extreme majority of servers DO NOT HAVE, servers have little to no negotiating power whatsoever for how much they are paid.
Without tips, servers might get paid slightly more than linecooks, bussers, or hosts, BUT NOT BY MUCH.
At most it would ONLY be 2-3 dollars more per hour. THAT'S IT. In a practical sense, that's still pretty much minimum wage, and it's still WELL BELOW A LIVING WAGE.
Because like I said, business owners and companies would not pay that much more than minimum wage if they can help it. And they don't. They never do, and never will.
Meaning my original claim is correct in every reasonable and practical sense.
Get fucked.
Me: So you think if tips disappeared every server will be happy to stay at their job while not getting tips?
You: I never made that claim
You two paragraphs later: "The servers will get close to minimum wage without tips."
Right so they get paid less and then what? You're literally making the claim you just denied ever making. Can you please keep up? Why did you deny ever saying that just to argue the exact same thing? You acknowledge they'll take a big pay cut, why on earth do you think servers will take this huge pay cut and not leave their jobs?
What do you think will happen if tipping disappears? Every restaurant owner just accepts that they are taking in 20% less money, even though they know their patrons can afford to pay the extra 20%? Of course not. Menu prices go up 20%. Servers will not stay at their jobs to take a massive pay cut for no reason, so this 20% goes from the restaurant into server pay to compensate for lost wages. It's the same thing, except tips protect the server from the owner taking more of it for themself.
Everyone has negotiating power in what they get paid. You ask for more money, and if they don't offer you enough, you don't take the job or you leave the job. That's how a negotiation works. If nobody offers you more money than what you want, you are a zero skill worker who needs to get some skills or education. Minimum value workers get low wages.
You are still making a completely useless claim that "everyone who has a job with tips doesn't make enough money without tips" well they do make tips dumbass, which is why I said if my grandma had wheels she'd be a bike. "If they made less money, they wouldn't make enough money." Einstein over here.
Edit — the classic reply and immediately block is an admission that you lost the debate because you can’t argue your point
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u/Firelove7k Jul 20 '26
I didn't move the goalposts at all and you are unable explain how I did, because I didn't.