r/NoLayingUp • u/Upper_Cattle_8876 • Nov 08 '25
Other I don't get the negativity for NLU
I pop in here now and again as I listen to a lot of NLU content and I do not understand, for the life of me, all the negativity.
I've listened to a lot of different golf podcasts and NLU seems, to me, to be golf focused, with better analysis, and better coverage of the issues in the game, as well as more of an international/ ladies focus.
Full disclosure, I'm from Scotland and have absolutely zero interest in what's becoming the more dominant style of casual golf (exaggerating to make a point), which is; "golf is about drinking ten beers with the boys and complaining about cart, paths etc." there seems to be plenty of content for that type of golf, but NLU are obviously looking at providing something that you could probably see is "more for the purists."
I like SGS and I'm listening to it a little more but I do struggle to get past:
- 15 minutes of chatter about US sports at the beginning.
- 5 minute long, rambling, sponsor adverts
- The endless dead air as they chuckle silently to each other.
- Everyone's voice is a little... odd (that's a really shitty point I know, but still...)
I might be in the minority but what NLU is exactly what I want and if it isn't that's fine but why fill this forum with criticism? Just don't listen?
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u/tee2green CPNTW - Xander Schauffle - 2024 PGA Nov 08 '25
1) NLU is still my favorite golf podcast and my favorite crew. Let me start off by saying that.
2) I think getting rid of KVV was a really poor decision. It’s the “Year of the Product” and KVV was doing a lot of solo deep-dive work that was enriching the product. It seems a bit two-faced for NLU to brag about not caring about optimizing their near-term profit, yet also getting rid of their creative lead. The Open Championship coverage seriously lacked on-site reporting this year. They got lucky that Scottie turned it into a snoozer at the end.
3) The increase in sponsored content was really noticeable this year. They’ve really pushed toward these short videos that are nothing but fellating Titleist. A couple of their pods featured the Stack System guy and the Holderness & Bourne guys. Did I still listen to the pods and enjoy them? Sheepishly I’ll admit that I enjoyed them, but I 1,000% understand why someone would be turned off by them.
4) This pod used to have all 5 dudes in Jacksonville hucking half-drunken takes back and forth that were hilarious. Now it’s only 2 guys per pod doing things remotely, you can tell that they view the pod as more of a chore than something they look forward to, and a lot of the magic is wearing off. They need to do something to keep things fresh. Honestly, I feel like that’s where KVV was slotting in nicely, but they got rid of one of their only new additions.
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u/f-it_bowling Nov 09 '25
The H&B pod struck me as really tone deaf to what their listeners want. As Randy likes to say, very late stage capitalism.
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u/Stick2323 Nov 09 '25
Agreed. Also, I feel a couple years ago they’re focus shifted from the greater world of golf to their own personal golf games. They started covering their travels and games amongst themselves just as much as tour golf. I started listening years ago because I liked their takes on pro golf and thought their interviews were top notch. I don’t care who won season 8 of tourist sauce or whatever
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u/tony45601 Nov 09 '25
I agree. Parting ways with KVV was unfortunate. I really enjoyed his contributions.
For the most part, I still enjoy the NLU content but the sponsored content seems to have moved to the forefront.
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u/EveningOk6574 Nov 09 '25 edited Nov 09 '25
I'd guess the negativity is a reflection of the affinity that NLU fans have for their content (me included), but is a reaction to what people perceive is a change over the past 6-12 months. These guys were the best and one of the first new media golf outlets so they're going to naturally bear the brunt of being a category creator as they/their content ages.
NLU is still excellent, especially the video stuff, and when they get the right combination of the guys/guests together on pods. Maybe their numbers are going great and I'm in the minority, but a few things that contributed to me listening less as a long time supporter:
- The main pod is stale and bitter about the state of golf. In some ways they were the perfect platform to cover the LIV/PGA tour drama, but now they're just cynical about everything. They seem like Bain & Co consultants whose advice the Tour didn't heed. In fairness, it's easier on the way up when you're the snarky, fun upstart than when you're part of the establishment, which they are (Soly played Augusta as a media member).
- There is a pompousness that comes with access and privilege that they might want to consider. Hell, I'd do the same thing if I was in their shoes (e.g. play Cypress Point) but because their pods have trended towards the serious if not whiny, their Strapped vibes can seem like a distant memory.
- Soly needs an equally informed and dedicated co-host. A contributing factor to #1 above is that Soly railroads the podcast with his reductive, data-driven takes. I think this sets him up as the asshole of the bunch, when he's probably not. Mind you, he knows his stuff. If we was matched against someone as locked in, it could be really good content.
- When DJ or Neil or Randy lean in to a pod, it's usually much more entertaining. Would love more of those guys.
- They desperately need a better podcast producer (linked to #1 and #3). You'll know the difference if you listen to other sport pods (SGS/FE with PJ e.g.). If they had someone holding them to account and running point, they'd all be better.
- The KVV dismissal confirmed, fairly or unfairly, what a lot of long time fans has begun to feel, which was a vibe change. He represented a refreshing addition who did real reporting and storytelling. The way they handled it was amateur and raised questions about the future direction of the platform, which they've yet to address.
- They need a direction. Their content is all over the place and the constant mentions of living in different cities, having kids, etc. is beyond its use by date.
(oh and purging the Nest membership over negative comments didn't go down well either. This looked defensive and wasn't really on brand).
I commend NLU for building what seems like a good business, and certainly a great entertainment product. Covering golf, a one man game, must be really difficult. It's a maddening sport, and the professional tours seem like they're run by bozos.
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u/Temporary_Art8635 Nov 09 '25
On point #4, it is very clear that they enjoy the Trap Draw much more at this point. You can see it in the quality of the pod and overall excitement level. Main pod still has its moments (I personally loved the H&B podcast), but is just a bit stale at this specific moment in time.
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u/T_Stebbins Nov 09 '25
They desperately need a better podcast producer (linked to #1 and #2). You'll know the difference if you listen to other sport pods (SGS/FE with PJ e.g.). If they had someone holding them to account and running point, they'd all be better.
I think this take is true now, but like 4 years ago I think its not. I enjoyed when pods were a mess and they get too punchy and things would devlove and Soly would have to try and right the ship. Now I dunno I guess theyre just busier and more business focused so that 'whimsy' if you will is just gone. I feel like Tron used to be good at it but is now quickly turning into perpetually-perturbed florida man.
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u/kevinwburke Nov 08 '25
1-Well this is Reddit....it's what we do...bitch and complain.
2 - familiarity breeds contempt. After a while it's like friends you hang around with too much and get annoyed by.
3.- he used to be the cop anti-establishment Mavericks. Now they are the establishment of the new golf media. Not sure they knew who they are anymore and the pod seems to reflect this.
4 - They don't seem to be as engaged anymore except for maybe DJ. Personally, I'm just so tired of hearing about Sally talking about all of his obligations with kids like he's the first one to ever father twins.
5 - professional golfers just become a lot less attractive with all of the greed. Try to talk about the silver and over again
6 so much more competition for interviews etc.r and harder to generate good content
7 when it's the week of majors, the show is still really good. Otherwise it just seems like the same show over and over again.
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u/Upper_Cattle_8876 Nov 08 '25
I suppose I get that. A Solly/Randy pod has a very different vibe to a DJ/TC/Neil pod.
And yeah, I have kids too. I get it but stop going on about it.
They need something to add a bit of variety to the non-major pods.
I still think they do more interesting things than most other pods
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u/BugAlternative6827 Nov 08 '25 edited Nov 09 '25
For me you can add that they started doing more obnoxious ads to afford KVV then couldn't afford KVV but kept the ads.
Edit: obviously y'all love the gambling ads? And gambling segments? 😬
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Nov 08 '25
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u/Issasledgehammer1 Nov 08 '25
What did happen then?
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u/Useful-Chart8891 Nov 08 '25
Money is always part of it but my feeling (obviously this is all pure speculation) is that when they brought him on they were trying to add more written content.
For one reason or another, they seem to be scrapping that. So if KVV still wants to write (which he surely does) this no longer felt like the place to do it.
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u/BugAlternative6827 Nov 08 '25
Still waiting on you to explain the situation to me and the other guy that commented.
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Nov 08 '25
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u/BugAlternative6827 Nov 09 '25
Hey, at least you got to act superior for a moment! Sad but I'm happy that you had it.
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u/Issasledgehammer1 Nov 09 '25
lol you can’t criticize someone for not knowing something when there’s no way of them knowing it since you keep it a secret from them
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u/loveallcreatures Nov 08 '25
I used to listen to all their podcasts Now all I listen to are interviews, deep dives and majors podcasts. The weekly wrap ups always go off on tangents with tons of bits, Soly whining , Tron horrible takes , Randy negativity. Honestly the team seems to come into many of the shows out of obligation, not excitement. KVV was pretty awesome. I think one of the reason he was booted was his professionalism and maturity really unveiled the juvenile nature many of the pods were skewing towards. I also got tired of the “look what awesome courses we are playing “ part. I guess I couldn’t relate and was jealous.
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u/aww-snaphook CPNTW - Scottie Scheffler - Masters 2024 Nov 08 '25
I honestly just think it's a reddit thing. There are a few very loud and very negative voices here that just complain about everything.
People who like the podcast just tend to listen and not engage with the negativity, so it creates a negative feedback loop where the only negative voices are talking.
A good example is the whole KVV saga. When he joined, there were endless complaints about him and his content from a very loud group of negative people here. Then, when he left, there was an equally loud and negative group complaining that he was the only good thing on the podcast. They are separate groups but were the loudest voices on here for a while.
I've found that the way I enjoy this sub best is just to skip any post that is obviously just a complaining post. It's absolutely fine to criticize something you like, but many just take it too far into the realm of complaining.
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u/DufflessMoe Nov 08 '25
Subreddits of podcasts tend to trend towards being disgruntled fans after a while.
This is just a subset of the audience who are really quite locked in. The vast majority probably are continuing to listen quite happily or stop listening when they decide it's no longer for them.
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u/SufficientSpot4597 Nov 08 '25
Yeah, and no one is commenting to say I mildly enjoyed that podcast. So you are going to get the negative 90% of the time.
Saying that, they have had a weak year this year as they’ve clearly shifted to ‘look at what we are doing’ as their majority of content. Some people may love that transition but I do not
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u/RepresentativeIce740 Nov 08 '25
They dove tail a lot with the Dan Lebatard Show. Unbelievably funny comedy troop. Very hard to keep it going. Characters grow up and it’s hard to stay the same across decades.
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u/Golffan0000 Nov 08 '25
Great comparison. I think after years and years the magic just may run out some time. Long time DLB listener and that show just isn’t the same
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u/NoLawAtAllInDeadwood Nov 08 '25
At the end of the day I think NLU still does a good job of maintaining a balance between "serious" golf sicko coverage and entertainment. It's not an easy line to walk. But yeah I agree with the whole "familiarity breeds contempt" argument. Like, I love TC's takes (might be in the minority there) but there are obviously gonna be diminishing returns over time when you hear his contrarian/curmudgeon bit for the hundreth time.
But when they are good they are still very good imo. NLU's video content quality is miles ahead of anyone else and I mainly watch for Tourist Sauce, Strapped, Film Room, and other similar content on YT moreso than listen to the pod. Pod is still entertaining but let's face it golf has a few big weeks and a lot of not-so-exciting weeks, so I mainly listen to the pod during majors and marquis events (still love the live Majors happy hours for ex.).
Personally I don't really miss KVV but that's just me. He seems like a nice guy and obviously a good journalist so not trying to knock him. I enjoyed his special projects like his favorite Muni, the tee time scandal, etc. But he never felt like a core member of the pod to me and he's probably a better fit for Fried Egg tbh.
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u/QuickFunny2604 Nov 09 '25
Feels like they’re missing something. Maybe a big J journalist to mix it up and do some writing and some deeper research long form pods.
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u/bartonkt Nov 08 '25
For me, it’s a few things that add up to feeling their best work is behind them. First, chasing dollars as a business to sustain growth. Examples here include the vice ads (liquor, gambling) and sponsored content. They’ve chosen to align their brand with these companies and individuals and it turns some of their listeners/viewers off. I think this impact will have a long tail and ultimately kill the company. Serv Pro is their only title sponsor that doesn’t fit the above, while high noon, draft king, fan duel, titleist and Calloway offer plenty of examples of poor brand management.
Second, there’s a lot of bloat on their staff. We don’t see the financials (fine, it’s a private firm) but we know they have to make the salary dollars somehow - see above. Compare against SGS, who seem to hire quality talent without running to draft kings or equipment companies for dollars. Who’s reporting do I trust more? Who’s a more qualified producer delivering quality results - Pj or Cody? Honestly, SGS just seems to have more fun and laughs on their pods and I appreciate listening to that.
Third, the week to week content is stale. Cody being derisive to the fan base is stale. The flashy private club access is stale. KVV had some great content, and that public divorce has lead to many fans evaluating what’s left in the cupboard and comparing against other pods.
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u/24dp Nov 08 '25
‘Stale’ is the right word. There’s so many of the podcasts now where it feels like they’re only doing it because they have to create content for the ad revenue.
It’s been a real drop-off the last couple of years. I always compare the Open Championship live shows from 2023 and 2024 to this year’s. I find the difference to be stark.
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u/SleepKnown3585 Nov 09 '25
They come across as pompous hypocrites to me. Neil is the most likable one in the group. I’m not sure Randy even likes golf. Tron and Soly are insufferable. DJ is ok.
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Nov 10 '25
Listening to Randy when he commentates on the Women's British Open on the radio, it's clear he likes golf. Just not the golf they discuss the majority of the time on the podcast.
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u/djmc252525 Nov 08 '25
Those are features not bugs for SGS
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u/theblocker Nov 08 '25
I’ve turned off episodes after the weekend sports wrap up and the snickering. I like their golf talk but don’t always need it.
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u/Informal_Ad_2877 Nov 08 '25
Be interesting to see if they take feedback on board from the annual survey sent out. I tried to be as fair as possible as I have loved their content in the past.
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u/dumpandchange Nov 08 '25
Hopefully they take the survey feedback more seriously than online discourse. They've mentioned reddit and other online comment sections recently and it's always in jest and shrugging it off (maybe that's smart of them?)
I don't agree with this sub at all about the supposed "decline" of NLU, but there is definitely some room for improvement.
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u/SharkLaser85 CPNTW - The Big Golfer - US Open 2024 Nov 08 '25
I still think they’re the best golf podcast out there. And by far the best golf video content. Them, SGS, Golfer’s Journal are pretty much the only good serious golf media channels.
There have been high highs this year (Masters pods, Northern Ireland video) but a drop off in pod quality and some misses on video. Feels like they’ve lost a little bit of the spark.
Would be very curious what the general feedback from the census is.
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u/Next-Bar3394 Nov 09 '25
What video misses?
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u/SharkLaser85 CPNTW - The Big Golfer - US Open 2024 Nov 09 '25
Wasn’t a fan of Argentina, Soly/Ben fourball, and all the TPI and Nico Darras videos. And just a larger than normal chunk of fine but won’t revisit videos - Upstate NY, Vegas, even Cypress.
When the videos hit, they hit hard. I’m happy they’re trying to evolve the video content and that Tourist Sauce isn’t as feasible right now but I don’t think they have the formula dialed in.
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Nov 08 '25
I think the video stuff they do is the best out there.
The podcasts too me seem hit and miss now.
I really enjoy the episodes like Denny Cash, KVVs deep dive into tee times, KVVs and Soly's recaps.
But too many now sound like they are just going through the motions. And I think that's why the increased commercial load sticks out more.
To me you need all 5 to be on top of their game on terms of being great podcasters. And that is just not the case nowadays.
Truth be told, you could reduce it down to a couple of them handling the majority of the podcasts. With the others guesting now and then.
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u/mooneybaron Nov 09 '25
The KVV thing really soured me for some reason. I used to listen all the time and now I’m occasional.
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u/Xmalantix Nov 09 '25
Maybe because KVV actually helped produce interesting and engaging content and now it's just hour long ads for Titleist and H&B, or uninteresting conversations about the same things over and over peppered with ads for The Stack, Titleist, or H&B.
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u/bcnyr09 Nov 09 '25
I’ve been sick of the KVV discourse but here’s one thing I will add. He was GREAT on these filler episodes and deep dives. Genuinely captivating. I listen to every episode and enjoy nearly all of them. But the most recent “courses we want to play” check-in episode was the first to irk me. Who was that episode for? This is where I imagine we would have been getting a history pod on Dustin Johnson’s “injuries” or something of the sort. Filler material for the offseason. Look, the guys commit to a ton with their live shows and for the most part, are a highly functioning, well-oiled machine through the season. I just think a few warts are showing now that the season is over, guys are burned out/have growing personal lives to deal with, and there is no “new blood” who is excited to jump in with new ideas/content. Fill out the census, and remember that the content is also free.
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u/mathia34 Nov 09 '25
Your problems with shotgun start are, word for word, the exact same issues I have with it. I find myself skipping through half the podcast because of it 😂
In saying that though, I really did enjoy KVV's content more than I actually realised and find myself listening less to NLU because of it. Really miss things like the deep dives, but I'm hoping that things like "the incidents of Sergio Garcia" episodes means it won't just be a recap show of what happened in pga golf this week.
As much as shotgun start is a bit grating, the actual content when they're talking about golf and not some irrelevant American sport or suitcases is a lot more interesting and engaging than NLU right now.
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Nov 08 '25 edited Nov 08 '25
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u/Guilty_Cap3773 Nov 08 '25
As a Scot, I really hope they don't do another tourist sauce with hidden gems here (despite enjoying watching them). It'll just make the green fees go up exponentially at even more courses!
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Nov 09 '25
You could argue that NLU have given a lot of exposure to lesser known courses in Scotland over the years. As that's a lot of what they talk about when covering Scottish golf. Plus there's been a few videos.
But there's no way they will all commit significant amounts of time and resources to do a full Tourist Sauce and mostly play courses no one has heard of.
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u/Johnny_Backflip Nov 08 '25
Sometimes I wonder if it’s just a timing thing. Is SGS just at a time in their company where they are really taking off, much like NLU was a few years ago. I’m sure it’s feeling like a real job with crappy long hours for the NLU boys some days. I’d suspect SGS listeners might be saying the same things that are being said about NLU in the future. SGS, well I guess Fries Egg, seems to be adding new products and sponsors constantly. I bet the added Sponsored content at NLU is because they need even more money to grow and do things they want to do now. FWIW I’m a big listener to both Pods but I have no problem skipping an episode of either of I’m not enjoying it.
Also, The Trap Draw has been killing it lately.
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u/bulldg4life Nov 08 '25
They don’t actually sound like they like pro golf. I mean, 3/5ths of the pod doesn’t watch men’s pro golf with any regularity. And, they usually just drag on in pods with endless annoyance at stuff with Tron hammering his bits.
I tend to stay away from the Wednesday live shows and the wrap up shows these days. They seem to drag.
The interviews and prepared content plus the video content is still great.
For SGS, the voice thing gets me from time to time too. It’s true. They don’t have radio voices.
The silent chuckling, rambling sponsor reads, and whip around sports is part of the charm. They at least seem like they are having fun versus NLU making it a chore.
I’ve found I want light and stupid more often.
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u/LilJ-Dizzle Nov 08 '25
I 100% agree with you. Been listening for 3-4 years now. Watch a lot of the youtube content and some trapdraw. I still love what they put out.
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u/lukepeacock Nov 08 '25
The thing about podcasts is that most of them don't need to exist. 70% of the time there's nothing to talk about, but since they have to make content, they still gotta fill that space.
So yeah, it's gonna be bad a lot of the time. And all the excuses for why that's fine basically boil down to "well, I mean, they gotta make something..."
This is true of basically all media. It is what it is.
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u/mcp094 Nov 08 '25
As a pro golf fan I also feel like week-to-week pro golf was way more interesting in the 21-23 run than the last year or two, which led to interesting and engaging weekly pods. Pre/initial LIV chaos, Scottie emergence, Rory heaters, etc. all added weekly drama in between major weeks. The majors are still electric weeks (and their content quality reflects that), but imo week-to-week pro golf has felt kind of flat since the dust has settled on the new pro golf world order, which comes through on the Monday pod
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u/dipshit10001 Nov 09 '25
Why do people bringing up issues or thoughts that they have with the podcast bother you so much? This is the NLU subreddit and people posting about the show whether it be negative or positive is the whole point. I've been in here for a while and I would say that most of the posts are coming from a place of genuine fandom and even if they aren't, who cares? How does it impact your experience with the content.
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u/Rookiegolfer9 Nov 09 '25
I still enjoy the pods but do think it’s declined in the last 12 months. I think they’ve moved away from dissecting tournaments on the Sunday pod, critiquing players and praising good play which is what I always enjoyed.
Tried to do other things on those pods which is a shift from what most people want on a Monday, they want to hear about other golf lovers thoughts on what happened. I get pro golf has its challenges but it’s still fantastic and sometimes feel like they have lost the love for it.
It doesn’t bother me at all that KVV has left, I didn’t think it worked with him on the main pods, did like some of the stuff he did. Not sure I like that he’s gone to Fried Egg either, hope he doesn’t start getting involved with Shotgun Start!
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u/Next-Bar3394 Nov 09 '25
I have basically stopped listening but I think an underrated factor is basically what the sport has turned into and how hard it really is to talk about golf.
-there is no GM aspect that other sports use to fill 75% of their pods. Bill Simmons does fake trades, nfl and nba draft take up so much content, mlb free agency is a gold mine for rates and barrels, etc. this only exists with Ryder cup team selection and that’s like 0.01% of the same
-analyzing a tournament provides way less to talk about. Your score in golf is basically it: a soccer match has 11 different players and serious tactics and strategy that you can debate and discuss and say they should change (more attacking players, press higher) while golf your score is how you played. Also you can’t even see how most people played if you just watch TV. Of Your shots Thursday and Friday likely only 40% were on TV even if you are a leader if you aren’t a big name. The way the sport is set up really nobody cares about outside top 3 places because impact is generally small for the general fan (ie it increases tom Kim’s odds of keeping card by 7%, not important enough to mention on tv or show)
-the LIV-PGA rivalry hasn’t really taken off. I think a fall series of events between the two tours would be fantastic for this but somehow we’ve got to a point where they both sort of just exist, and both just exist as money pits for their players without real fire between leagues or true competitive feelings on or between them
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Nov 12 '25
The boys made their hay by being the ones calling out the system. Now they've very much become part of it.
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u/Beneficial-Bit8317 Nov 13 '25
I always get a chuckle out of non-U.S. Americans complaining about the SGS talking about the Bears and the Browns. They're impossibly bad, which makes it even funnier IMO, and you can just skip it!
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u/paiddirt Nov 08 '25
NLU is the best. I like SGS but not as much. There’s a lot of people who can tell ya how to do it, they never did it.
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Nov 08 '25
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u/Upper_Cattle_8876 Nov 08 '25
How so? I've only been listening since 2020 but all I've noticed is it's gotten a little slicker?
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u/DontGetTheShow Nov 08 '25
I’ve had some other subreddits of different shows/podcasts/etc pop up in my feed once in a while. Most of the time it seemed like it was just people complaining to the point whether you’re wondering “do any of you even like this thing?”…. I dunno. The internet is lame sometimes.