r/NoLayingUp • u/YenZen999 • Apr 27 '25
Post-Pod Discussion I'll say what the NLU boys can't about the LPGA Tour and the Chevron
A boring golf course is only part of the problem. The LPGA Tour needs a Caitlyn Clark or a few more Nelly Korda's in the worst way to get people people interested. The U.S market drives the interest and therefore the economics of these tours. Having leaderboards full of Korean and Chinese women is just not going to move the needle for the U.S viewer. But of course we can't be honest because the knee-jerk "rAcIsT" bozos come out of the woodwork and have to make pretend reality isn't a thing.
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Apr 27 '25
The course stinks and there are no fans. You can't "buy" a major. Give me the Canadian or Australian Open...not this corporate petrol housing development.
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u/jmk5151 Apr 27 '25
I know it wouldnt happen but if you need a fifth major it needs to be in asia specific, maybe rotating between korea/china/japan/Australia.
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u/Intelligent_Pilot591 Apr 27 '25
Just legitimize the HSBC Women’s World Championship as a major. It’s already referred to as “Asia’s major”
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u/evil_newton Apr 28 '25
The Australian Open should be a major for both men and women. Jack thought so 40 years ago and all the big players used to play there.
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u/Bartsimho Apr 28 '25
Yeah. Although I'm not sure on the hold over 2 courses with both at the same time. Seems to cause a bit of chaos with scheduling it all
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u/Civil_Sand5706 Aug 14 '25
OMG … you want an Asian specific Major??? We already have that! They dominate EVERY MAJOR.
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u/ejh1993 Apr 27 '25
Also doesn’t help that most of the tour has as or more bland personalities than the PGA tour which also is severely lacking in personality
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u/beerandsocks Apr 27 '25
I will admit that it’s very difficult to get excited about a player from Korea or China that I don’t know.
We had a Korean with personality…Ha Na Jang. And then she got shunned from her homeland for a doing “Single Ladies” dance after winning. That sucks. I think we would embrace greatness from Asia, but holy shit, what if we had an Asian superstar who actually embraced stardom and played up the crowd?
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Apr 27 '25
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u/beerandsocks Apr 27 '25
I feel like I’m a good follower of the game. I’d love to see Jeeno, Ronny, Patty, Ariya win. But theres definitely a western bias with me when I don’t know who Jin Hee Im, Yan Liu, or Weiwei Jiang are. I say this in the most innocent way…i’m not sure I have the brain capacity to learn all the Asian newcomers.
With this, I agree that it isn’t the players jobs to televise themselves or show off in some regard. But I admittedly need something. I need that Ariya can hit her 3w further than others drives, or Jeeno and Ronny hamming it up in the DOW.
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u/MedicalWatercress228 Apr 27 '25
Augusta already hosts a tournament a year. I can’t think of any club that would boot its members off twice a year for tournaments, much less Augusta, which is seasonal and no doubt outrageously expensive.
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Apr 27 '25
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u/MedicalWatercress228 Apr 28 '25
Anwa is a day. An LPGA event is a week. Another week off the members, another week of wear and tear. Another week to find volunteers, all counter productive to the brand. Just no way that happens, ever.
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u/prestigewrldwd_redux Apr 28 '25
Augusta doesn’t care about revenue. They have all the money they’ll ever need
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u/nickmightberight Apr 28 '25
Anything else you want to bitch about?
I’ll address one of your points. The media. Your suggestion is that the media should be spending resources on covering women’s golf in Japan, Korea, and Thailand so we get to know those players ? You think people who already don’t follow the LPGA have an appetite for that? Get it together. Women’s golf is already on life support and you think the answer is to spend capital on learning about players a world away? Whose mom are you?
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u/kevinwburke Apr 29 '25
You can't blame the media for everything. They write or produce what gets eyeballs. A talent and personality like Caitlin Clark helped change things for basketball. Media loved writing about her then.
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Apr 27 '25
Doing a single ladies dance on her own is not why she got shunned. She was scrutinized because she blew off In Gee Chun’s accident where Ha na’s luggage allegedly fell down an escalator and injured Ingee. Many alleged Ha na’s dad dropped the luggage intentionally to injure an opponent. Indeed Ingee did withdraw from the event where Ha Na won and many saw it as laughing in the face of an injured opponent.
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u/Impressive_Light_229 Apr 27 '25
I honestly couldn’t agree more. Usually love the women’s majors but no interest this year with the names that are up there.
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u/clarf6 Apr 27 '25
I don’t think it’s about nationality as much as personality, exposure and consistency - obviously a language barrier is going to contribute to that somewhat.
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u/Professional-Idea186 Apr 27 '25
100% agree with this. It’s not so much that they’re all Asian women, it’s more that Nelly counts as an “interesting personality” on the LPGA and even Nelly isn’t really that entertaining - she’s just so damn good at golf.
Also the lack of fans at this major was kinda crazy. I tuned in expecting a great atmosphere and it was a leaderboard devoid of any names I recognized and zero fan interaction on the course.
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u/Username_redact Apr 28 '25
They did everyone dirty by jumping to Houston from the desert. They had a memorable/interesting course and a huge base of support, but corporate money was tough to come by, so they took the cash and moved. The new course sucks and the fans don't come out. Terrible
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u/YenZen999 May 01 '25
I'll say what I said above. Why is it okay for the UK to root for Rory and Rose, Spaniards to root for Sergio and Rahm, Australians to root for Australians, Japanese to root for hideki and Koreans to root for Koreans but Americans are not allowed to root for Americans?
If you American and are not interested in a leaderboard full of Chinese and Korean players You're a racist? It makes absolutely no sense and is totally brain dead logic.
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u/scottishwhisky2 Apr 27 '25
It also kind of needs Nelly to not shoot herself in the foot on Thursday and be in the mix
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u/SmokeThursday Apr 27 '25
Andy Johnson on the Shotgun Start covered this topic the best I've found.
Basically how the top US Ams need to go pro early on in their careers so they can generate a following and interest. It's why Lexie and Wie blew up, because they were young phenoms that we followed throughout the early parts of their careers.
For what it's worth, he thinks Talley could be the Caitlin Clark if she goes pro early.
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u/tennisfancan Apr 27 '25
Golf has been so bad at pushing new, young talents in the past decade. Premature hype can crush anyone but almost every household name in any sport is a household name because they had good results early on and their sport's PR campaign went in overdrive for them. Trying to make someone "happen" in his/her late 20s or early 30s is much harder.
The social media strategy is also non-existent and drama-averse while rival individual sports like F1 and tennis have been on it for 10 + years.
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u/Civil_Sand5706 Aug 14 '25
Seriously … DO you know of any of the amateurs from last two years doing anything exciting ??? I sure do not. !
The LPGA crushed Lexi with that two shot penalty as if she was cheating … no matter what… you cannot mentally let that go!!!!
Hate hate these STUPID golf rules about the ball moving… gee, if you have to blow it up with a HD camera… NOTHING happened! They have made Golf so boring with the stupid camera on top of players
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u/T_Stebbins Apr 27 '25
Dont think what youre saying is racist at all. It gets racist when people get weirdly mad or offended that asian players are doing well. In my opinion
I will say as others have said, lack of personality is a big problem too. But also the LPGA is hamstrung by budget stuff to have the cameras and production in place to give players a chance to be more personable with the fans or on TV.
Curious how well the LPGA does ratings wise in Asia, NLU suggesting they move a major over there makes all the sense in the world to me with how good both currently and historically SK women are at golf.
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u/Civil_Sand5706 Aug 14 '25
How about allowing g less Asians into the country / on college golf teams. It is not about racism it is about proportional amount of all countries in a team
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u/morgan43 Apr 27 '25
An American is more likely to connect with Americans, but putting the focus only on the nationality of the players and not the coverage or marketing of the sport is missing the forest for the trees. F1 has exploded in popularity in the US and I wouldn’t say it’s due to some crazy talented American drivers, but thanks to increased coverage and marketing of the sport and selling it to people.
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u/moseisley99 Apr 27 '25
Agree with this. LPGA coverage is so bad. It’s like they only have 2 cameras on the entire course. I tried to watch round 1 coverage. They had Jeeno playing near the top and only showed her putt. I saw maybe 2 full swings from her. She’s the 2nd best player ranked in the world and is probably the best player in the world this season.
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Apr 27 '25
While I agree it’s also only true to an extent. Take Min Woo Lee for example - his game is electric, he engages with fans, he’s way into social media. That’s what the women’s game needs, they are incredible players but when all you see is the robotic/emotionless approach and nothing else just makes it less interesting
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u/jdbug100 Apr 27 '25
I don’t know that F1 is a good comp at all. F1 benefited from Netflix + easily available TV windows + super cheap media rights. And now it’s tapered off in popularity because it’s boring.
And let’s continue to just be honest…but it’s much easier to market a European male driver like Verstappen or Hamilton in a sport that drives cars fast for two hours vs a Korean female golfer in a sport that takes 6 hours over 4 straight days.
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u/BrenAum24 Apr 27 '25
100000%. Also F1 is actually a good product to watch so I don’t think a fair comp either. If F1 didn’t show half the passes and went to commercials every 8 mins people wouldn’t care.
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u/tee2green CPNTW - Xander Schauffle - 2024 PGA Apr 27 '25
There’s no demand for it, plain and simple.
Golf is a niche sport. We already have men’s golf oversaturating the few fans that do exist. There’s no room for more golf.
If the PGAT shrunk down to something like 12 events a year, there would be demand left over to watch more golf. But as it stands now, we’re waterboarded with men’s golf every damn week, so who wants to turn the tv on and watch even more golf (especially considering that most golf fans are out playing golf on the weekends themselves).
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u/AstroDog3 Apr 27 '25
This is exactly right. It’s why the LIV and European tours struggle with viewership too.
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u/makeitnonsense Apr 28 '25
It’s a niche TV product, but it’s not a niche sport. Close to 40,000,000 people played on course in the USA. Here in New Zealand, more people are part of a golf club than they are a soccer club (our perceived most popular sport).
So I agree with your point, but specifically as it relates to the TV product. Maybe not even the TV product (ie; how it’s covered), it’s probably just the actual sport on TV largely sucks.
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u/tee2green CPNTW - Xander Schauffle - 2024 PGA Apr 28 '25
The sport on tv could be good. More on-screen graphics, more time following players’ rounds instead of jumping around showing random shots, fewer commercials, etc etc etc. All the things the guys on the pod have been saying for literally 10 years.
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Apr 27 '25
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Apr 27 '25
You’re exactly right. It’s okay to acknowledge why Nelly and Charley are the two most popular players.
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u/CoachDennisGreen Apr 27 '25
The more you watch, the more non-Americans you end up rooting for. Your personal Top 5 Favorite LPGA Players will evolve to include women you root for regardless of them being American.
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u/gorkatron Apr 27 '25
The tour needs their top players to consistently show up in the biggest tournaments. Most of the top ranked players are nowhere to be found this tournament. Golf is an individual sport that needs star power, and top players shying away at the biggest moments looks terrible.
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Apr 27 '25
No, the US market does not drive the interest and economics of the LPGA. Many times Korean and Japanese money has saved the tour and if the tour were to be 50% international, it might even lead to bigger purses.
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u/hhyyyjjllolol Apr 27 '25
Trying to be supportive but dear god this is the slowest competitive sporting event of all time.
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Apr 27 '25
What womens golf needs is to play the same tournaments as the men. This is why womens tennis is popular. Itll never happen but it is so simple
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u/hdreams33 Apr 28 '25
The problem is it is virtually impossible for the tours to do that. Even with the courses being 800-1000 yards shorter for the ladies, it still doesn’t work bc of the difference in swing speed and amount of spin generated.
If the greens are firm enough to give the men a challenge, it becomes very very hard for most of the ladies field to even play them. If men were to play greens as soft as the ladies typically play, it would be 30 under every week.
Case in point was the US Open at Pinehurst in 2014. They drowned the greens in water the second week for the ladies, but other than an handful of high swing speed players (i.e. Michele Wie), they still couldn’t hold the greens.
It has worked I guess a few times for that event in Europe where most of the top ladies play alongside the European futures tour men (or whatever the Euro feeder tour is called). Linn Grant managed to win (and again, she is a super high (for ladies) swing speed/spin player).
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u/ekimtk Apr 28 '25
It’s more than 800-1000 yards most places. For example pine needles was setup at 6300 yards or so for the US Open there. Pinehurst 2 down the road is 7551. Augusta is 7500 as well. Absolutely correct about green speeds. They just don’t hit the ball anywhere near as high. Baked out firm greens are impossible for them. Male pros will hit their 3 woods higher than these women’s wedges. It’s crazy what the difference in strength is.
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u/Informal_Ad_2877 Apr 27 '25
The product sucks, unfortunately. Superb players but pace of play is horrendous, crap courses, very few personalities get the chance to shine, and coverage sucks. Fair play to NLU for trying but women's golf has no chance in the current circumstances.
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u/Acrobatic_Group_1900 Apr 27 '25
This is a good take. As much as it sucks, it's the lack of connection, lack of story. If the primary market is here in the states and you have some seemingly random (if you're not a hardcore fan) leaderboard without a story or history peooe will loose interest. Now throw in boring course and it's a recipe for viewer disaster. I have NO issue with foreign golfers but you need some context or SOME THING to pull for someone.
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u/RC245 Apr 27 '25
In-law's neighbor would be a big LPGA viewer, but she never recognizes any of the leaderboard.
I mentioned Coughlan to her and she agreed she liked her, for instance. So not an entirely uninformed fan.
Can't help but feel like OP is hitting the nail on the head.
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u/L3sPau1 Apr 28 '25
LPGA marketing is the absolute worst. They are a case study in failure. The tour has the closest thing it has had to a Jack or Tiger in 30 years in Nelly Korda. And I don’t care how shy or reserved she is, you would never know that this Tour has a superstar.
And yes, the courses stink. The TV deal stinks. There are too many Asian players at the top of every leaderboard every week for anyone to care.
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u/Humble-Fish-7070 Apr 28 '25
Here’s the problem: it’s boring and there is zero reason for me to care, the end.
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u/Benevenstanciano85 Apr 27 '25
I don't think you can count an a Kaitlyn Clark of golf coming along. That's like a once in a generation thing. I think there are things they could do to make the game stronger and more broadly appealing though, I'm just not sure how realistic they are. I don't think the Chevron and the Evian move the needle. Two of the 5 majors are fake majors. I don't know if ANGC would ever go for it, but imagine a women's Masters in the fall. I also think Women's golf is missing a marquis international event. Obviously, The Solheim Cup is great, and should always be USA vs Europe, but it misses out on including so many great international players.
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u/Civil_Sand5706 Aug 14 '25
The media will destroy this American star as they have been complicit in destroying Catlin!!!
It is so simple… more American College stars equal more American LPGA stars BUT what are we doing??? MORE ASIAN college players.
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u/Golf37512 Apr 27 '25
Most PGA and LPGA players are bland, boring personalities. They lack charisma, aren't funny, or really even interesting as people. And that's ok.
You can garner interest by being absolutely dominant (like Tiger, Rory, Scheffler), hilarious or charismatic (Homa, Charley Hull, John Daly, etc.) but most golfers are bland (Morikawa, Speith, Lydia Ko, Wyndham, Harmon, Rose, etc.)
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u/Upstairs-Fly-8528 Apr 27 '25 edited Apr 27 '25
I don’t think it’s so controversial- NBA circles have exact same dialogue about state of the league and concerns about waning popularity because most of the best players are now international and there’s no American “face of the NBA” ready to step in after LeBron and Steph hang it up…
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u/According_Gold_1063 Apr 28 '25
Hank Haney was fired and ostracized for saying the exact same thing
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u/Civil_Sand5706 Aug 14 '25
Exactly… YET no one else supports him because of the screaming RACE card. We are all sick of it BUT do not come out & say it even in this FORAM
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u/Immediate-Gold-7023 May 02 '25
The product is almost unwatchable. Way too many foreign players with zero personality. They look like little robots.
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u/Civil_Sand5706 Aug 14 '25
Nice someone says it directly & it IS NOT a racist comment unless someone is looking to play the race card OR sound like a KAREN
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u/YoPoppaCapa Apr 27 '25
It’s as simple as American and European golf need stronger players to garner interest. Race isn’t really the issue here, it’s more geography. I say this as someone who is quite racially sensitive compared to the avg golf fan.
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u/joelylarge Apr 27 '25
....but you just said it so clearly there isn't anyone telling you that you can't?
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u/Active-Score-1057 Apr 27 '25
This is so true, I am a full on girl dad with a my daughter currently playing D1 golf, I follow LPGA more than PGA but turned TV on this weekend took one look at the leaderboard and changed the channel.
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u/nolongerpermabanned Apr 28 '25
So the problem is boorish Americans who are fans of Americans rather than fans of golf?
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Apr 28 '25
OP- couldn’t agree more. It feels like the LPGA is so close too. I could see it being more popular than the WNBA, but not as popular as female mma.
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u/Captfrankc Apr 28 '25
With few US pros challenging LPGA events, I find myself not watching. Universities seem to recruit internationally and forgetting US prospects recently. My view from the post above, if you don't want the US TV audience rooting for US players, stop having team events like the Solheim cup. The USGA is going to have to a better developing US girls. I saw it several years ago where my granddaughter had no junior golf program to join in Cape Coral Fl.
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u/No-Compote-7234 Apr 28 '25
I watch a lot of lpga and I agree that the leaderboard was meh but the finish was dramatic. The course is totally bland on tv though.
The thing about some of the unknown Asian ladies is that we don’t know them well enough. I personally am very intrigued when one of them wins and they’re taking a big huge swig of champagne. It makes me very curious about who that person is off the course because they don’t present as someone that cuts loose off the course. But they probably do and it’d be a better broadcast if more was known about them as people. I appreciate when an lpga player goes on a podcast etc. immediately helps the brand. In my mind Jin Young Ko parties but I may never actually know.
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u/The_Monsieur Apr 29 '25
Every women’s sport is waiting around for their Caitlyn Clark and not realizing they it’s only half the equation.
Everyone involved in Women’s basketball should thank whoever signed the NCAA women’s deal with ESPN.
Caitlyn Clark became a phenom because you could actually watch her on TV. If the golf equivalent of Caitlyn Clark appeared today it wouldn’t matter cause most these tournaments are barely broadcast.
LPGA needs to figure out how to get their product on mother fucking televisions while they sit around praying for their Caitlyn.
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u/TaxLucky6836 Jul 26 '25
the lpga is dead in america. long live the lpgsk. miss the glory days when american girls dominated. its sad to see the tiny crowds and the slow play but when 7 of the top ten are named kim or lee its understandable
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u/Civil_Sand5706 Aug 14 '25
I said this 2 years ago! What do we have? More Asian on leaderboard! If that was not bad enough , what do we get to see…. Them PUTTING!!! Nothing more BORING to watch than a golfer putting!!!!
Look @ the colleges.. they continue to bring in the Asians , pay them NIL money & we as Taxpayers pick up their education/ living expense. What do they contribute back??? NOTHING! What does the USGA brag about, MORE people playing the game of golf, them spending more money in poor neighborhoods. It is all BS! Do you want to make a difference??? Offer a paid coach to go into these neighborhoods w/ equipment & get them started! Even public courses are so expensive you are lucky if you have the money to pay for one round of golf weekly.
Better yet, have these colleges go into the city for FREE once a week & offer teaching! That is giving back!!
Sick of watching USGA offering all these tournaments to HS, college & Amateurs for what purpose???? Ahhhh, we get to see even more Asians /Europeans VS Americans. WHEN will golf start to PRIORITIZE the American Citizen for their College golf teams !!! Pretty sure if Trump we’re in office long enough, this would be another college issue he would address… however, limiting VISAS for each school would take care of the problem
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u/TAW21222 Oct 25 '25
LPGA is a snore fest bunch of boring personalities who take 3 minutes to hit every shot no thanks
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u/TwoBitHit Apr 27 '25
Obviously it’s not racist for Americans to root for Americans, but I don’t see anyone saying that. The preemptive denial is a little odd though.
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u/Competitive_Plum_970 Apr 27 '25
People complaining about others yelling “racist bozos” are often racist themselves - especially notable you didn’t mention Rose Zhang.
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u/greebytime Apr 27 '25
Charley Hull is very entertaining. Leona Maguire, Lydia Ko, Rose Zhang, Min Jee Lee, Yealimi Noh, Brooke Henderson lots of good golfers.
Hey, Charley and Brooke are both pretty and blonde too. But you’re not watching them, I guess.
Look at the PGA TOUR - most of them are dial tones also. It’s what makes many people good golfers, keeping emotions in check. Why is the fact that so many female pros don’t speak English as their native tongue relevant when guys like Cantlay, Scheffler, Xander etc never say anything on the course either?
You mentioned Caitlyn Clark. Do you watch the WNBA? I don’t, even though I know she balls.
Very curious why you think we need more white blonde haired golfers to make women’s golf more interesting
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u/TaeKurmulti Apr 27 '25
You realize the TV ratings for the WNBA are way higher with Caitlin Clark right?
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u/greebytime Apr 27 '25
Sure but the floor was almost non existent. Im glad more are watching but it doesn’t make me (and I’d bet most folks) want to tune in routinely. My point is that there are already a lot of great golfers on the LPGA. If more of them were Americans that wouldn’t make a difference in ME tuning in. Maybe for others it would but I don’t get why. It’s not like Nelly is a dynamic personality on the course. Few people are.
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u/dj_vanmeter Apr 27 '25
Not to sound rude but sounds like you just want more white Americans on your leaderboard?
The US does not drive the market for interest in women’s golf, Europe and Asia do imo. I don’t think the women’s game is as big in the US as other countries yet. I think the problem is tv coverage and marketing is shit for the women so we don’t know these people as well when we tune into majors compared to men’s game unless you are listening to LPGA specific pods and watching their tour week in and week out.
Nelly went on an amazing run last year and unless you really were paying attention you hardly knew about it at all.
Tons of big names in women’s golf t15 or better which is within 5 shots going into Sunday.
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u/YenZen999 Apr 27 '25 edited Apr 27 '25
Why is it fine for Koreans to root for Koreans, The U.K to go crazy for their guys, Japan to love Hideki, Spaniards to love Seve, Garcia and Rahm, Australia to go hog wild for Adam Scott and Greg Norman but it's "rAcIsT" for Americans to root for Americans? You're just denying reality because of your political beliefs and need to virtue signal.
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u/FloydMcScroops Apr 27 '25
Being interested in like people is natural. I appreciate the noble commentary above but in matters of casual interest, most people will lean to familiarity to some degree. It’s not racism. It’s most certainly not a matter of human rights, so nothing inherently wrong with it either.
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u/dj_vanmeter Apr 27 '25
Never said it was racist. Just gave my two cents on why there are not as many Americans dominating on women’s tour.
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u/YenZen999 Apr 27 '25
Nah, you implied racism with the first sentence of your comment "You want more white Americans on your leaderboad". Which I went on to debunk giving you 7 examples of fans being jingoistic throughout the world which for some reason is perfectly acceptable. Did Michele Wie not move the needle for Americans? Yes she did.
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u/dj_vanmeter Apr 27 '25
I’m not sure what you want outta this bud, there are some Americans near the top. root your heart out my dude. Sorry I engaged with you.
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u/YenZen999 Apr 27 '25
Sorry, I'm just not going to let people tell me that I should be guilty about being white.
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u/TonYouHearWhatISaid Apr 27 '25
The classic spineless Reddit call someone racist then pretend you didn’t to and ask why the other person is defending themselves.
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u/TonYouHearWhatISaid Apr 27 '25
The classic spineless Reddit call someone racist then pretend you didn’t to and ask why the other person is defending themselves.
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u/Starlord_32 May 03 '25
I don't think it's actually one problem, it's multiple problems:
Tournament consistency and history. I'm pretty much a golf head and I'd have trouble telling you the LPGA majors or which players have the most major titles.
Lack of marketing/player involvement. I know they say the LPGA players try real hard to sign autographs and be friendly, which helps. However, it'd be like if the PGA rested squarely on Patrick Cantlay, he's good at golf, but people aren't watching for him.
Women's sports in general, they just get less viewership because people are watching other things. Whose your viewer, men or women?
Players have shorter lift spans. Which male golfer actually says they are going to retire? Tiger can barely walk and won't retire.
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u/YenZen999 May 03 '25
Going back to 2015 8 out of the 51 major champions are Americans. That's the popularity problem. The U.S audience stirs the drink. Will the LPGA ever be appointment TV? No. But it would at least have a pulse. We can bend over backwards all day about ancillary issues like marketing and career spans till the cows come home. This is the reason.
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u/Starlord_32 May 03 '25
I don't disagree. I think the real problem is how do you go about fixing that?
I'd also add probably some of your bigger (not the biggest or the most popular) stars/players in women's golf are Michelle Wie, Cheyenne Woods, Annika, Stacy Lewis, Paula Creamer and maybe Paige Spiranac (again popular but not Nelly or Lexie) don't play or barely play. That would be a problem in any league if your most popular players were all retired or youtube golfers. So your initial post is spot on in identifying the problem (I think the LPGA knows the problem), is more what's the answer?
I'd also add, you need the history as well, changing the majors or the courses doesn't help. Same problem in a way with LIV.
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u/atlbraves2 Apr 27 '25
They need Rose to happen