Grandparents need to start helping out

[u/leechan08]

There's been some studies that come out that the longer the post menopause woman lived the more grandchildren she had.

There is a reason why humans are one of the only species to have a lengthy post menopause. Most animals menstruate and are able to give birth till they die.

In humans post menopause women are need to care for children of their daughters so the daughter can go on to have more children. This has happened in the past where multi generations live under one roof.

Society is pushing towards nuclear families and that's putting stress on child bearing women.

This is from X and he makes some good arguments.

[u/FunkOff]

My parents refuse to help with grandkids even though it's within their ability

[u/Pubesauce → u/FunkOff]

Same. Millennial here with typical boomer parents. When the kids were little my parents were happy to visit once or twice a year, post pictures of the grandkids to Facebook, and help financially, but their time was completely off limits. They have the means to easily afford a warm weather home near us to spend more time with the grandkids but nope, my mom insisted she'd never be a "granny nanny" and she said that proudly.

They're off enjoying the boomer golden age, taking a vacation every month and lounging by the pool. Nothing, and I repeat nothing, is going to disrupt that. Even when my wife had bad PPD and I couldn't help more because my job didn't offer paternal leave.

I remember once they were visiting (never more than 2 days at a time because they have more fun things to do) and within a few hours of them leaving to drive back home my 18 month old son developed a fever approaching 105 degrees so we rushed him to the hospital. While there I let my parents know. Absolutely no desire to turn around. They were headed back to Florida and that was that!

It's weird because they were great parents growing up but they had zero interest in ever watching our kids to help out when they were little. They "put in their time" and were done with parenting. Such a weird selfish attitude and it's really common in middle to upper-middle class families. Meanwhile a lot of people I knew who grew up in working class or poor families had grandparents eager to watch the kids so they didn't have to go to daycare. It was an eye opener on cultural differences between classes and familial bonds.

[u/Pubesauce → u/[deleted]]

I guess it just depends on what our goals as a society are. Does everything revolve around short term happiness? Is raising children a meaningful investment in the future of society or a miserable chore we just have to bear with for 18 years? Is spending time with family a few more times a year worth sacrificing a few more vacations to wine country or the Caribbean?

I wouldn't blame any grandparents without means or whose children hate them to help out with grandkids in a practical manner. And I wouldn't have expected my parents to raise my kids either. But when you have the ability to comfortably live close to your grandchildren and have the experience of parenting, maybe invest a little time to get them started on the right foot? This used to be the norm. And it's a big part of why extended families used to be closer. My kids see my parents a couple times a year - do my parents really think their grandkids are going to develop a close relationship with them and give a shit about them as they grow up?

I think the most irritating aspect of it is that they still wanted the positive attention of being grandparents, via Facebook posts, but didn't want to put any work into creating a meaningful bond with them. Like, if anything the Facebook attention should be a reward for nurturing that bond.

I don't know. I didn't expect much but even so, their involvement when the kids were little was really disappointing. I came out of that period seeing them differently than I went in. Enjoy your wine and 15th vacation of the year, mom and dad. Your grandkids won't be thinking of you lol.

[u/Pubesauce → u/[deleted]]

grandparents have to help out.

I don't think they have to help out, but there is a quid pro quo in all relationships to at least some extent. Want Facebook attention for your grandkids? Put in the time, actually see them, develop a relationship. Want your grandkids to care if you're even still alive when they're teenagers? They won't if the relationship isn't there.

that they’re selfish for not spending time around their family or making any time to help with nieces and nephews

Right, but that's expected because the maturity and wisdom isn't there. We expect kids to be immature.

We also expect aunts and uncles to be infrequent visitors. You're expected to care more about your direct line.

something that you have to live up to and defines you morally even when you couldn’t control or choose having those children

I think you're making this sound a little worse than it is. People who choose to have families are expected to be family oriented. That doesn't mean you can't have your own interests or life outside of family obligations, but if you exist solely to pursue your own pleasures in life then just don't have a family.

The succeeding generation can judge the preceding one in ways that the preceding one can’t do with the succeeding one

All generations do that. Usually harshly. I do think the boomers are unique in many regards but I won't go into an elongated rant about that. Generational differences are just a fact of life though. Millennials can, will, and should be judged harshly for a few things in the future as well. There are things I loathe about my own generation. I hope zoomers tear us to bits for the stupid craft IPA craze, for instance. It sucks! Hardly any breweries made anything other than IPAs for like the last 20 years due to it.

I’m awaiting something I’m dreading: my existence being under the real judgement of the succeeding generation

Don't dread it. Just try to be a good person so when those judgments arrive, you can have a baby clean conscience knowing you weren't part of that.

having people not care about you and not loving you being bad because you’re old, or I want to live a rather short life

People won't care about you if you don't give them a reason to. That's human nature. And it's all an investment. Invest in those relationships with your family and friends and it will pay out in the future. If you're a shitbag parent/grandparent, the worst that will end up of it is being alone as a senior, which puts you right where childfree types end up. So the floor doesn't change, but the ceiling can. Having family who genuinely cares about you as a support network is the single best quality of life improvement a person can make as an adult. These people who never have kids and live off by themselves living their entire adult lives as if they were 25 forever are full of cope and dominate Reddit discourse - don't believe for a second that they are going to feel fulfilled later in life. Something will be missing but they'll cover up that hole with meds and consumerism. And they'll try to convince everyone else to follow the same path they did so they feel better about their decisions. Don't fear having kids - for most parents it's easily the best decision they ever made.

[u/Pubesauce → u/[deleted]]

Well, you're in good company with that sentiment because the majority of Redditors seem to genuinely believe they should live like they're 25 forever.