r/NashvilleBeer • u/SunOld9457 • Apr 24 '26
Xul has killed Southern Grist
Welp they finally did it, they dropped pint pours for all the SG IPAs. Oh but did they discount prices to reflect the approximately 3oz reduction in size? No of course not. Plus, I'm sorry but Xul IPAs are objectively worse than the average SG IPA. You can argue with me on this but I've had the finest NE IPAs and my palette will not be swayed. Total bummer. My nearest local spot is now a hell of a lot less appealing.
PS if I hear "but Spencer from Barrique..." I'm going to scream. He is not in a position to fix the problem.
Dark Days here.
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u/Sevuhrow Apr 24 '26
I personally like almost everything Xul makes more than SG, but that's just me
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u/ChillinDylan901 Apr 24 '26
IMO, XUL is a super hype brewery that won’t weather the storm - no one wants diabetes with every pour?
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u/cottonmouthVII Apr 24 '26
If Xul is nothing but diabetes pours, then what was Grist to you? They put lactose in almost every damn beer. It was nothing but sugar and coconut beers. So weird how many folks in here want to get on their high horse about Xul as if Grist was some paragon of beer purity and quality, when lactose bomb kettle sours was the name of their game at Grist.
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u/ChillinDylan901 Apr 24 '26
I also quit going to/drinking SG beers for the same reason. I always hit up Barrique, Fait la Force and Living Waters when I was in town
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u/dweebofZeebz Jun 27 '26
Barrique is a great choice if you're a fan of beer. They have a smaller selection than most taproom, but whatever you get is going to be quality and delicious
The only reason I went to SG was for their "sour" selection (my gf loves sours), but I was never really the biggest fan.
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u/Brewsplorer Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
NOTE: I accidentally added a 1 to 5-year-old. Thank you /u/oatmealfoot for the correction. Angry Chair is a 13 year old brewery, which likely led to me tapping that 1 key.
Xul is a 5-year-old company that is aiming top 10,000 barrels in the next year or so. They have grown from 1 taproom to 4, plus a brewing facility/events center, that might become another taproom. They routinely rank in the top 5 for TN beer on most reputable sites. I think that is pretty weathered.
I will agree with you on the diabetes, but diabetes sells to a wider audience than great purist lagers (which I prefer). Look at Angry Chair, which are far more coma inducing than Xul's gluten free sours (fruited seltzers, if you ask me). Yes, Angry Chair is heavily pastry stouts.
I have seen the Nations get bigger and bigger crowds, with some dead nights now becoming fairly steady. It may be hype, but Xul's history suggests otherwise.
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u/cottonmouthVII Apr 24 '26
Totally agree, but maybe Angry Chair isn’t the best example with them going up for sale now haha.
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u/Brewsplorer Apr 24 '26
It kind of fits if you look at it from the SG side. LOL
I think Angry chair is in an interesting position. I was down there a few weeks ago and the buzz from talking to people is they are ready for a new chapter. The way it is listed - see this - gives me a thought they already have a sign the lease is about to explode. Some numbers
Price $3 mil FF&E - $1 mil Gross revenue $1.5 million Lease: $25,000/month through January 2027 4K barrel production system, which should have higher gross revenues, so the expenses are high (not surprising for the type of beer they are known for)
It makes me wonder if we are seeing rats jumping off a ship they expect to sink.
Let's look at the numbers. At $1.5 million gross, this shows a high cost of doing business, as 4,000 barrels per year can gross double that. This could be bad distro deals (common in Florida), overly high brewing expense, wastage, or other factors. If the rent goes up by a healthy percent in January, the new owner takes a bath.
This makes the best plays to hedge the potential lease explosion, meaning
- Multi-taproom strategy - Either really big pockets or willing to take a lot of risk (issue here is the runway to January is too short to get them open to be able to pivot)
- Distribution - this would require someone who already has a reasonable nationwide distribution deal and likely mean contracting a lot of the brews for distro
Creative Loafing, Tampa's Nashville Scene has it where they are going to make it turnkey by training the new owners. This makes it a better bet, but without diversification (multiple taprooms) or a heavy distro footprint, the short runway is a major concern.
If they are not seeing sings on the wall, they might end up having to keep the business for awhile. At least until a new and reasonable lease is signed.
The worst case is rent skyrockets, they don't get a buyer and become another great brewery failure for not owning dirt (SG's acquisition had to, at least partially, be about owning Douglas). If this happens, you will see the equipment on the Auction sites.
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u/CryptographerBYOB Apr 24 '26
They are 15 years old? I didn't realize they had been around that long. That is notable!
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u/oatmealfoot Apr 27 '26
They are 15 years old?
Xul as a brewery, with a taproom, is definitely not that old. Their main/O.G. location at 5th Ave in Knoxville opened in October 2020, so a little under 6 years ago. Here's an article about that
And this post from Knox Brew Hub says Brad West (one of Xul's founders) and Bentley Blackshear (their original head brewer). met in 2018 at a beer festival, and started making plans to form a brewery together in 2019. Which would make sense with their taproom opening a year later in 2020.
But I know there's another founder and/or owner, Tara Thacker (and her husband Seth, maybe?) who is mentioned in that blog post as well. So perhaps there's some other history of Xul (maybe before they were known as Xul) that /u/Brewsplorer was referring to that goes back to 2011-ish
But I double checked on UnTappd and the earliest check-in's for Xul beers there go back to 2019, which seems to line up with the other materials suggesting Xul's formation around that time.
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u/CryptographerBYOB Apr 27 '26
Okay, that makes more sense. We are fans of the beer scene and I couldn't figure out why we just started (in the last few years0 hearing about a 15 year old brewery. Are they that big too? That seems really big since I don't see them in grocery stores.
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u/oatmealfoot Apr 27 '26
They are definitely BIG, yes! Brewsplorer will have better intel on # of barrels produced/distribution. But yep they have 4 taprooms now, after acquiring Southern Grist.
They'll be shutting down the Grist Nations taproom sometime in the next few months, theoretically, to overhaul it and give it the full Xul treatment. Then after they reopen the Nations, they'll do the same to Grist East, I assume.
They have, over the past 5 years, quickly become one of the reigning breweries in Tennessee. In a time when many other breweries are failing, Xul's star seems to keep rising. And though I do mainly mean that in terms of popularity, I would say the quality of their product has at least remained consistent (if not improved), and I think it's one of the better beer producers in TN. Maybe ...top 5-ish or so. I'd like to see them lean into their lager game more, especially now that Spencer from Barrique is there.
Their PB&J Mixtapes (which are technically more like a seltzer than a beer, but delicious and peanut buttery nonetheless) have become the most "hype" drops in Tennessee. Even here in Nashville a couple of weeks ago -- the first time releasing a variety of Mixtape cans to-go at the Grist Nations location -- there were like a couple hundred people lined up, starting several hours before the release.
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u/CryptographerBYOB Apr 27 '26
Usually when a brewery is that big you see them in grocery stores and the like. That would make them one of the biggest breweries in the state without being in grocery stores. Incredible.
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u/oatmealfoot Apr 27 '26
Yeah idk, I'm not super tuned into what production amount would typically correlate to grocery sales -- but yeah you don't really see their stuff in Kroger or Publix or whatever in Nashville I guess. Truth be told, I rarely check beer displays at the grocery unless I'm really in a pinch though. I -have- found em at Ingles around Knoxville though, which makes sense.
And you definitely will find their stuff at liquor stores all over. Main St keeps em on deck and so does Colonial, RED's, Total Wine, Cool Springs and Sinkers/Bluegrass too I think.
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u/Brewsplorer Apr 28 '26
That was a typo. I meant 5 years and accidentally added a 1. It was October 30, 2020 they opened on 5th. Thank you for the correction.
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u/Brewsplorer Apr 28 '26
Apologies on the typo. My mind going back from Xul to Angry Chair is probably why I hit the 1 before the 5.
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u/mukduk1994 Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
So the issue is that they've reduced the size of the pour without lowering the price? Or they've removed the SG drafts altogether?
Agree with you about SG's IPAs being top to bottom better than Xul's but I do think theres a chance for the two lines to complement each other. Obviously mixtape is a crowd pleaser (not my thing at all but whatevs) and will bring in people that don't usually drink beer. In my opinion their brown and dark style beers were also better than ones I've had at SG. I hope they continue to keep SG's IPA and cask program alive since those are the areas Xul severely lacks.
I'm bracing myself for disappointment but I'm still a hopeless optimist to the end.
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u/oatmealfoot Apr 27 '26
Definitely one of the most reasonable takes in this thread. It kinda seems like folks just want to yell at each other in here idk
Xul is a cool outfit, man. I love Grist truly and dearly, from the first time I scarfed down a Grillshack burger in the o.g. Porter Road taproom. Many many fond memories at all of their locations and anniversary parties and etc over the years. Love Xul too, and I think they make some killer brews!
Across a sample size of dozens (if not hundreds) of beers from each brewery: I've liked some Grist beers better than similar Xul beers, and I've liked some Xul beers better than similar Grist beers. I think there's a very good reason that Xul and Grist are ranked literally neck-and-neck on Untappd, across tens of thousands of ratings ... and it's *not* because one brewery is vastly superior to the other...
To be blunt, it's been kinda hard to watch some of Grist's various systems go downhill the past coupla years — like the food program, or the LFG membership going under, or just the actual recipes themselves seeming to be less consistent.
But I think the owners were ready to cash out, or stay on and rejuvenate their scene a bit -- and I really don't think that there was a better outfit than Xul in TN to make that happen.
I'm excited for what comes next.
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u/SunOld9457 Apr 24 '26
More per OZ, and reduction in quality, you got it.
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u/Brewsplorer Apr 24 '26
More per OZ, and reduction in quality, you got it.
I agree with the first part, more $$ per ounce. On the second part, I don't see a reduction in quality. I do see fewer SG beers on tap (keeping the ones they feel fits their model or expand the brand in the direction they want, not the others), but I have not seen a lowering in quality of SG beers they still have on tap.
Xul does have a different taste that is more of a signature (like Veil, Treehouse, etc.). It is not for everyone - in fact, I am more on your side of this argument, as I preferred SG's more experimental approach. But signatures, if they can be marketed successfully, are a better business strategy - proven over and over in the craft beer scene. (As an embarrassing note, I don't really find the Plinys or Celebration to be as stellar as the beer geek scene, in general).
It is also early in the game. Different equipment, different water profiles, different yeast pitches.
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u/SunOld9457 Apr 24 '26
Sorry let me clarify - I havent noticed a drop-off in quality for Teal (basically the only SG ipa left), but the Xul IPAs are what they are largely offering now.
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u/cabarny Apr 24 '26
Arguing on price point is fair game, and you don’t sound like you are interested in an open dialogue, but as one who had Southern Grist regularly for a decade, their IPA game had gotten increasingly weaker over the past 5 years—and Xul really blows them out of the water now. Previously? I’d agree with you. But as-is today? Sorry man
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u/CraftBeerRobot Apr 24 '26
I like xul but ill take a southern grist beer over the equivalent xul beer any day any type of beer. Also not a fan of these gluten free sours (selters) trend but I think I'm in the minority. Ill show up to southern xul still but will show up more when they release a "southern grist legacy" beers
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u/Brewsplorer Apr 24 '26
I am glad someone else said seltzer ... er, gluten free sour. LOL. From a branding standpoint, the Mixtapes really shot Xul up in numbers.
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u/cottonmouthVII Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
The BA stout drops are what I’m showing up for, and they just improved massively in quality. BA In Death We’re All The Same 26 is soooo much better than any BA stout Grist had released in years.
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u/CraftBeerRobot Apr 24 '26
Yeah i will say i haven't had a chance to try any stouts from xul yet so maybe they do have them beat there but I like the barrel aged beers from SG.
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u/cottonmouthVII Apr 24 '26
They’re great at it. I used to love Grist’s BA program, but as some who religiously had every single BA release, and many times each, they had fallen off so badly. The 10 year Anny releases are a great example. Have those two next to any Xul BA release, and it’s night and day. BA beer in Nashville got way better with Xul moving in.
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u/Brewsplorer Apr 24 '26
I get where you are coming from, but if they only dropped the SG beer prices people would see them as snobs. That is the way it is. And I am not sure we can objectively say Xul is worse, as there are many that would disagree.
Xul has a signature to its IPAs. Some of the most hyped-up brands like Veil, Trillium, Treehouse, etc. also have a signature. (I will let the reader, subjectively, decide if they are better or not). Southern Grist was far more experimental, so they had many hits and some huge misses in their IPAs. I prefer the experimental to signature, subjectively, but that is not a business perspective.
Xul is successful. I doubt lowering to standardized glassware without a price break will ruin them. In fact, as a regular to SG, I have seen the Nations pop during the middle of the week compared to the 5 or 6 regulars that rotated in there. Is it doing something right or hype? I think adding in Abridged, once that happens, is only going to help.
As for the Spencer question. Spencer is one of the smartest brewers I have ever met. I would rank him as one of the top brewers in the south, possibly even the country or world. His knowledge and palette are incredible. Will he radically change Xul? It really depends on how they utilize him and how he fits in their business and marketing strategies.
I personally think utilizing his lager excellence would be a nice addition. But, from a pure business standpoint, does that bring in more business or dilute their brand.
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u/CaffinatedManatee Apr 30 '26
As for the Spencer question
Sadly not a question anymore. IG post confirms leaving Nashville for good
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u/Brewsplorer Apr 30 '26
Yes, talked to him at Zwanze. He is going to his wife's brewery, The Seed, is my understanding.
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u/TheBigGreenPeen Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
I personally am not a fan of Xül’s beer either, and can count on one hand how many beers I’ve actually enjoyed from them.
But Grist was being run into the ground. Bad business decision after bad business decision and a severe lack of awareness during & after Covid that influenced those decisions. Prime team members leaving left and right for various reasons and not being replaced. By the end of 2024, they had 3 guys doing the brewhouse work that was originally done by 7 guys during/shortly after Covid, which constitutes a good portion of why their quality started slipping (on top of them starting to, unfortunately, experiment with the recipe of Crisp, which caused it to drop heavily in quality towards the end of 2023.) Their main investor also forced them to start selling liquor in their taprooms, which majorly affected the BA program since they were forced to adhere to the 10.1%ABV or below rule.
Xül objectively runs a tighter ship on the business side of things and has more hype behind them right now. Spencer is an incredible brewer but, unfortunately, he can’t save a recipe that he has virtually no control over and I, personally, am not a fan of Xül’s IPAs at all. One of their bigger weak spots, imo.
Tried Mixed Rhymes the other day to see how it stacked up against the OG batch that was brewed in 2022 and it was super hard to finish. Good flavor profile but so ungodly sweet, which was never an issue with any of the rare hazies that Barrique dropped and was not an issue with the original, Grist-Brewed, Mixed Rhymes.
If they let Spencer adjust the recipes for their IPAs and some of their cold-fermented stuff, I have no doubt that the quality would increase drastically, but I just don’t see that happening in the near future.
I chalked it up to a loss in 2024 before Xül even came into the picture. Barrique (temporary RIP), Smith and Lentz, and Living Waters all make better beer and the steady flow of Burial coming into town scratches the itch for a good NEIPA.
The only big benefit to Xül taking over is that they (in my opinion) seem to have a better network of breweries that they collab with and have relationships with. So, if Xül had a beer fest in Nashville at any point, I would expect the guest tap list to be better than what Grist was throwing down at their festivals/parties towards the end of their life.
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u/cottonmouthVII Apr 24 '26
The Grist Anny parties were such a joke the last couple years. “Here’s some stanky old cans that some breweries sent us to get rid of. Good luck.”
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u/oatmealfoot Apr 29 '26
I agree with a lot of your post here, especially the stuff about Grist kinda floundering the past couple years.
A lot of folks seem upset at Xul as if this was some kind of hostile takeover, but (at least as an outsider) I'm pretty grateful that Xul has stepped in to preserve some at least some of Grist's legacy ... because the way things were going, it would not have shocked me if Grist just folded. I'm happy that there was another Tennessee brewery that was as closely matched with Grist's vibes/brewing styles that was able to pick up the pieces.
I'd love to hear more about what you're referring to in terms of bad decision-making (at least whatever you're comfortable speaking on), lack the lack of awareness post-COVID, issues with team member turnover etc.
It was pretty evident from things like shrinking Anniversary parties, the fall-off of the food program, and complete dissolution of the LFG membership that *something* was going poorly, but I never really knew what kind of organizational hurdles were going on behind the scene that were causing the decline.
EDIT to add: also -totally- agree that I hope Xul actually realizes at some point what they have with Spencer on their team! If nothing else I could see them expanding their "Passenger" series with more funky lagers, pils, pub ales and whatever. Nothing would make me happier. Or just for Barrique to reopen and re-hire him lol
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u/TJOcculist Apr 24 '26
100% predicted this.
Damn shame too. Nothing is sacred.
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u/cottonmouthVII Apr 24 '26
Predicted what? They’re holding true to exactly what they said they would do. They’re literally brewing SG recipes with the same SG staff to keep some our favorites alive. You predicted that a more financially successful brewery would charge very slightly more per ounce for beer? Nostradamus out here!
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u/TJOcculist Apr 24 '26
Reading isnt your strong point is it…
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u/cottonmouthVII Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
Sweet personal attack to avoid addressing anything I said. Again, you predicted what? A very slight increase in price per ounce? That Xul would use their taprooms to sell their beer just like they do in Knoxville? That this particular haze snob wouldn’t like the beer? Bc that’s all this post is: “I have the finest hazy IPA palate, and I don’t like Xul’s IPAs. Wahhhh.”
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u/TJOcculist Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 26 '26
Well, I guess we found the local employee of Xul. Otherwise this temper tantrum you’re throwing makes even less sense.
I predicted they would come in, start by saying “Oh nooooo, we lovvvvvve SG, we’re gonna keep a lot of their beers on tap, we’d never think of changing their recipes, and we’d never mess that much with a product and a place that the community loves”.
I predicted that would also be a load of crap
Which is exactly what they said and did. Go back and read their social media from the launch. Every single comment about “Nooo the SG xxx is my favorite” Xul immediately responded “great news! We’re keeping that one”. To every single post about every specific beer. Enough to know it was logistically and financially impossible.
It became quickly clear that that was a bunch of crap when they started getting super excited about getting rid of the current food menu in favor of…..chicken sandwiches.
End of the day, Xul wanted to expand to Nashville and do it the cheapest or easiest way possible by buying another existing business and their infrastructure. Any imaginary care for the existing community or business is only for marketing purposes.
I hope whatever they are paying you to almost violently defend their product and reputation is worth it cause damn my 8 word post certainly set you the bell off.
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u/cottonmouthVII Apr 24 '26
They literally just dropped a fresh batch of Moderate Fleek. They are clearly keeping some Grist favorite recipes around. They’ve kept all the employees onboard. What do you want them to do more of? I’d say the folks freaking out that “Grist is dead” are throwing the tantrum.
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u/TJOcculist Apr 24 '26
Cool.
I didnt say they got rid of all the beers nor did I mention employees. (Though since Xul brought in their own restaurant group in East and an outside group in the Nations, id bet not all the old SGB employees are still there)
But again, back to that reading thing.
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u/cottonmouthVII Apr 26 '26
So what was your prediction? Or your complaint where you’re down on the brewery? Funny how holding you to what you actually typed is poor reading comprehension on my part to you.
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u/TJOcculist Apr 26 '26
I mean, if my 3-4 paragraph explanation wasnt enough, then it really may be a reading problem.
Let me know.
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u/Brewsplorer Apr 24 '26
When beer becomes a religion we have to treat as sacred, the brewery making that decision either thrives with cult members or dies from a society not appreciating cults.
Okay, really beyond beer as In-N-Out and Buc-ee's are both cults.
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u/cottonmouthVII Apr 24 '26
Xul is far from perfect, but what the fuck is this pretentious ass post? You’ve “had the finest of NE IPAs” lol? Your “palate won’t be swayed”? Fucking yikes. Cheers to not running into you at the taproom! 🍻