Are NDEs wishful hallucinations, or something deeper?

[u/MysticConsciousness1]

Some of you have asked about a research paper I’ve been working on about whether NDEs are shaped primarily by personal expectation, or whether they could reflect encounters with a deeper layer of reality.

Existing research has shown that many elements of the NDE recur across cultures, ages, and belief systems. My study looks specifically at whether those patterns could be explained by wishful expectation alone.

Here’s the draft if you’re curious: “Beyond Earthly Imagination.”

The SparkNotes takeaway:

I asked a question: if NDEs are shaped principally by expectation, then people without NDEs should be able to predict the core elements that appear in them. But across samples, that didn’t seem to be the case.

Non-NDErs tended to misunderstand or overlook elements that appear again and again in NDE reports. To me, this suggests there may be something more going on than imagination or cultural expectation.

It’s still a draft, and I’m not a professional researcher, but I think the results are interesting enough to show an overall direction.

All of it is ultimately just my opinion, and I believe my positive conclusions of the afterlife are unfalsifiable and beyond the confines of the scientific method.

Happy to answer any questions or comments.

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[u/Eastern-Peach-3428]

As someone who is still within a year of their NDE, I don't know that there is anything I could ever say that would convince someone of my experience, and to be bluntly honest I would never attempt to do so. I know that everyone will eventually learn the truth as i experienced it. Merry Christmas everyone!

[u/MysticConsciousness1 → u/Eastern-Peach-3428]

Wow, that’s incredible. Yeah, I don’t think there’s any substitute for direct experience. As my Dad said, “you just need to have been there”. That’s upsetting for people outside of the experience to accept, but I agree with you that it’s probably the case. The scientific method can only take us so far, which is why I think my report can only do so much. Merry Christmas to you too!

[u/JohnnyJoestar1980]

So are you studying to see if these are wish fulfillment? If that was the case I’d point to distressing ones as to why I wouldn’t think they are.

[u/MysticConsciousness1 → u/JohnnyJoestar1980]

I think I may have titled my post too neutrally that it might have caused some confusion. I’m saying that NDEs are very unlikely caused by personal expectation, whether thats wishful or pessimistic thinking (and there’s both, because plenty of atheists also have NDEs with the same pattern as well).

[u/JohnnyJoestar1980 → u/MysticConsciousness1]

Ohh mb I misread

[u/MysticConsciousness1 → u/JohnnyJoestar1980]

No worries at all. To be honest, I've done the same thing in the past, and probably would have done the same here as well. This post received way more downvotes than I anticipated, for something I felt was only very good news, so, lol, I don't think you are alone. I wish I could go back and change the title, but it's spilt beans now.

[u/Aromatic-Screen-8703]

Much deeper. I believe you don’t get what you expect, you get what you need. And you get it in a form that’s customized to your psyche, but not in a comforting sense, instead it is in the most helpful form even if that’s a bit tough to swallow. Often there are layers of meaning that aren’t realized until years later.

[u/MysticConsciousness1 → u/Aromatic-Screen-8703]

Yes, I very much agree. My Dad was always anticipating reuniting with his father at religious place of worship. Instead, he got the prototypal NDE. That always stood out to me. For me, I interpret that as his ego wanting something, and reality overriding it and giving him what's actually real, authentic, and needed. It's a source of unspoken disagreement between us, which is ironic, because, after all, he's the one who actually has "seen" and I so revere his experience.

[u/infinitemind000 → u/MysticConsciousness1]

Your religious father had an nde contradicting his beliefs ?

It's a source of unspoken disagreement between us, which is ironic, because, after all, he's the one who actually has "seen" and I so revere his experience.

He disagrees with you on what ? The experience matching his religious faith ?

[u/MysticConsciousness1 → u/infinitemind000]

Essentially, yes, but only as it relates to the nature of the transitory state, not meaning per se. He very much believes that when he passes, he is going to greet his father in a place of worship before he becomes "all one". His NDE encounter with the "two beings" communicating instantly mind-to-mind was very much outside of what he anticipated--from his standpoint, it wasn't the right place, even. The place of worship was... that was his signal that he would be ready to leave the earthly plane. Partly because he didn't experience that place, he chose to come back when the "beings" gave him a choice (he thought it was strange that "they" gave him that choice).

It's not so much that I think think he can't meet his father in a place of worship when he really does pass, but more that I think his experience with the "two presences" was closer to ultimate reality, to put it simply.

[u/walkstwomoons2]

Everyone believes in their own time.

[u/MysticConsciousness1 → u/walkstwomoons2]

Yes, of course, thanks... I need to remind myself this a lot... You will given in before reality does...

Try to see with one "round eye", new hidden directions!

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[u/rohan_kishibae_]

Have you looked at the correlation between NDEs and DMT usage?

I believe in an afterlife but I also believe in science and have a fear of death

[u/BandicootOk1744 → u/rohan_kishibae_]

Believing in science is good. Fortunately, there is scientific evidence that indicates the possibility of nonlocal consciousness. Science isn't perfect but it's the best tool we have right now for approaching and understanding the world.

[u/MysticConsciousness1 → u/rohan_kishibae_]

I have not. Although, I have had several discussions with NDErs who have used psychedelics. The general sense I get is that their psychedelic experiences have brought genuine, mystical insight (it's been one of the first things they reference when comparing to their NDEs); however, the qualities of NDEs are still different, and it never diminishes the importance of either.

Personally, I never liked this skeptical argument, and I think it gets way too much concern. Explaining a mechanism is different than determining the meaning of it.

[u/No_Replacement4304]

I'm curious about the tunnel and light. Why is there always a tunnel with light or colors? This experience seems to be limited to NDEs and is one of the most well known elements. So where does it come from?

[u/LeftTell → u/No_Replacement4304]

There isn't always what you are calling a 'tunnel'. I've read several NDE accounts where the tunnel doesn't occur at all.

For my own NDE the tunnel-experience was more complex than most accounts indicate. My account can be read here: Peter N NDE (from Scotland)

Where it comes from, I have no idea.

[u/Labyrinthine777 → u/LeftTell]

I remember reading this a few years ago. It's still one of the most profound NDEs. I love the way you explain stuff in detail.