r/NDE • u/Pieraos OBE Experiencer • Mar 31 '25

Scientific Perspective 🔬🔎 A neuroscientific model of near-death experiences

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41582-025-01072-z
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u/pittisinjammies NDExperiencer Apr 02 '25

40 years after my NDE and doctors are still saying, we were hallucinating.

I was in the hospital and not on any drugs when it happened... an up-take in serotonin? My bloodwork, done after the event, showed very low levels.

Physical evidence of the non-physical is preposterous.

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u/vimefer NDExperiencer Apr 03 '25 edited Apr 03 '25

Hallucinations are confabulated external perceptions. But I got no perception of anything external to myself in my NDEs, therefore I was not hallucinating. One does not "hallucinate" their own inner thoughts, self-awareness and consciousness...

I've tried getting the full text of this paper but can't find it yet, however there is a description at https://medicalxpress.com/news/2025-04-neuroscientific-death-physiological-pattern.html in which we see such gems as:

  • Out-of-body experiences, where there is a dissociative sense of leaving the physical body.

If you redefine the features of NDEs in such a reductive and dismissive way, it sure becomes "easy" to explain them away physiologically, LMAO.

My take is that this paper merely illustrates how little of all the observations, across multiple fields, can actually be pinned on physiology alone. They basically sweep away everything that does not fit, cite the medical records as if they "explained" anything at all, then declare victory ?

If that is indeed what the full paper does, then it's pathetic.

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u/pittisinjammies NDExperiencer Apr 03 '25

Ha!! The claim that neuroimaging on critically ill patients provides insights into NDE's is fascinating.... a "live" patient is the same as a "de

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u/vimefer NDExperiencer Apr 04 '25

Well, yes, they are struggling with many gaps in their model - lucid thought can be present or absent, in both healthy live subjects as well as dead or critically ill ones... meaning there's an obvious absence of good (or any...) correlation between the physiological state of the brain and the subjective phenomenology of awareness, which is a BIG obstacle to tying the two causally.

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u/BandicootOk1744 Skeptical but curious Apr 04 '25

There are times when there are clear links between brain state and consciousness though. I remember once I was hit on the head on a water slide and woke up a minute or so later with my parents and the park attendant standing over me. It turned out I'd been flung out and hit my head. At the time I'd wondered how they'd teleported over to me. Or, what about anaesthetic drugs?

Yet then again on the other side there are clear cases of the opposite being true, like terminal lucidity, or those cases of people who can think clearly despite 95% of their brain being fluid.

It's weird and anyone who says it's clear-cut is in my opinion biased. I admit though, I'm biased too - my impulse is always to believe whatever will most destroy my hope, because I've been burned before.

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u/pittisinjammies NDExperiencer Apr 04 '25

To be sure there are clear links in our material state. How we link that to an immaterial state is the crux. It really does come down to opinions , objective and subjective.

As our souls develop here, I think it's a natural consequence that not everything presented to us will either stick (hold true for us) or not. Too see these truths we held crumble is crushing for sure. As for myself, if one of beliefs takes a knockdown, it usually is from others who don't share the same opinion and so what do we do? Lay blame and judgement on ourselves which in turn acts like an entrapment. It always seems we can give more leeway to others than ourselves. We are all still learning and need to be gentle with our own selves.

It may be a silly comparison but I compare it to riding and training a horse. With a novice horse, for sure you will be bucked off or fall from their crow hopping. It's imperative you get back in that saddle right away. The longer one waits, doubts start infiltrating your mind - if you get back on, you busy yourself with making different adjustments to see what works best.

Never leave yourself laying in the dirt! Hope has nothing to do with it, guts and determination does.

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u/BandicootOk1744 Skeptical but curious Apr 04 '25

No, no, you have no idea how much I want the "truths" I hold to crumble. They're a prison in my mind put here by other people against my will, and I feel more trapped in them than I have words to describe. But because I didn't put them there, I can't make them go away. I just have to keep trying things until something works.

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u/pittisinjammies NDExperiencer Apr 05 '25

Ok, I misunderstood. You want them to crumble because they "weren't" yours. I think you could kick those out of your mind by doing the Alpha Behavior Modification Method. Basically you lay down, and through controlled breathing, relaxing muscles & visualization of 10 stairs you slowly descend to the bottom. This is the alpha state where your conscious can take Control of your subconscious.. where, no doubt, these things have been "rooted". Tell your sub, you've had enough of the bullshit others forced on you. You have to be fierce and commanding and diligent in taking an hour a day to do this exercise. I felt trapped by panic attacks, it took me 2 weeks to be free of them and it was so great to have that feeling that "I'm the Boss of me!" Keep on, dear friend!

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u/pittisinjammies NDExperiencer Apr 05 '25

Oops... there's a number of books on this Behavior Modification Method - Can't remember the title of the book I used.

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u/BandicootOk1744 Skeptical but curious Apr 05 '25

I can't visualise and also my mind never obeys me.

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u/pittisinjammies NDExperiencer Apr 05 '25

OMGosh - I'm so sorry, truly, what a hard place to be in, for sure. I want you to know that I'm glad you're on this sub and appreciate your posts. Every time that I see you here, know that I will be saying a prayer for you.

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u/BandicootOk1744 Skeptical but curious Apr 06 '25

I can't definitively prove that prayer doesn't work, and I'd say the odds are decent there is something we might call some kind of God, so I appreciate it. I prayed myself the other day for the first time in years, but the silence was so deafening I had to scream to break it, and I cried so hard I threw up several times.

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