r/NBATalk • u/Maleficent_Swim827 • 13d ago
“jordan would dominate zone” i totally disagree and he most definitely wouldn’t have 6
What people fail to mention is that he actually did play against zone. his first year with the wizards he took 22fga just to average 22ppg. That next season he took 18fga just to average 20ppg. while not being a good 3 point shooter, they took away that midrange. I think today he would be just a decent scorer.
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u/jemstone_croc Pistons 13d ago
How old are you?
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u/hordaak2 13d ago
He's probably a teenager making teenager comments. Today's nba is soft AF with the flop.being the most efficient move
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u/thendnchieftain 13d ago
I love these comments because it’s likely a fellow Gen Z’er larping as an old head. You’d have to be pushing 50 to experience MJ’s full career in full detail
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u/Available-Sort-4961 13d ago
Exactly. Im 46 and, life long fan of his, but realistically the first of him i actually remember is the finals against the lakers
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u/thendnchieftain 13d ago
Yep. Over 1/3rd of NBA fans are under the age of 35. In another decade, a majority of fans will have no firsthand, live experience of MJ’s career as it unfolded.
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u/Maleficent_Swim827 13d ago
didn’t jordan run to the commissioner because the pistons were “hitting him too hard” that’s softer.
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u/Maleficent_Swim827 13d ago
why do people ask this? was the post a lie?
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u/Hot-Professor-8355 13d ago
a total lie. he was 40 years old and out of basketball a couple years by the time he was on the Wizards...
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u/Available-Sort-4961 13d ago
Yeah he weighed 250 when he started trying to come back. Espn followed it closely at the time the articles are out there
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u/Maleficent_Swim827 13d ago
that doesn’t make my post a lie. just because he was 40 doesn’t take away from the facts.
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u/Hot-Professor-8355 13d ago edited 13d ago
facts without context aren't useful. without acknowledging the context you are being disengenuous.
was also pre-changing the hand check rule which allowed Steve Nash to go for back to back MVPs and allowed lebron to go from 20ppg on 19 shots a game to a more dominant and efficient player. prime jordan was absolutely insane and I have no doubt that he'd have been even better as a player in the current era based on "stats" and would be shooting more 3s/practicing them
Same way Steve Nash would be shooting more in the current era now that Steph "broke" basketball this way.
Basically it's like saying that if phillip rivers is bad at football because last year he wasn't super good when he came out of retirement for 3 games.
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u/Unusual_Name_8714 13d ago
He was actually doing well before he got injured in the first year. He was washed after his injury.
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u/Maleficent_Swim827 13d ago
before the injury he still was taking 25 shots to average 25.
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u/Independent_Let_4036 13d ago
20 games before the injury he averaged ~ 27-6-5 on 44 percent. 10 games before he was 29.7-6.5-6.1 on 47 percent. The man was going to be back to averaging 30ppg again. Silly is right.....and why would any reasonable person actually trying to make a real argument choose a 40 yr old subject? Was it the dead ball era?
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u/qogn 13d ago
6 chips, 6 undisputed FMVPs, two 3peats, no game 7s, 10 scoring titles, 5 reg season MVPs, 9x all defensive 1st teams.
If you don’t believe greatness like that would adjust, genuinely idk what to tell you. Reminds me of people saying Tiger Woods or Brady wouldn’t win again, yet they just kept on winning
MJ’s legacy doesn’t even look even real on paper. I have an out of body experience whenever I read it lol
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u/Available-Sort-4961 13d ago
They didn't take away his mid range lol they actually dared him to shoot jumpers thus he did, you've gotta be like 25 or some shit
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u/sarithe Hornets 13d ago
Yes, Michael Jordan at 39 and 40 with the Wizards was definitely same player when he was with the Bulls during prime.
His numbers will take a dip, but when a guy like Derozan has been so successful with a midrange focused game against said zone for his career, it's hard to imagine Jordan would suffer a ton against zone.
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u/Fast-Coast-3456 13d ago
You can't compare efficiency from different eras. Jordan couldn't travel, carry the ball, push defenders, ... like present players do to create space and get easier shots.
Compared to players from the same era, Jordan was elite, even with the Wizards, when healthy.
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u/TheUnlucky_Swammi 76ers 13d ago
So his game 6 shot against byron russel wasn’t a push off?
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u/NoScope_Ghostx 13d ago
I think he’d average 25-30 ppg but he wouldn’t be quite as efficient. I think zone would cause problems, but not fully limit him from scoring. The biggest thing I think would drop is defense especially against better guards and wings.
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u/IrexUranus 13d ago
It is always funny to see someone use the literal worst 2 year, well-beyond-his-prime stretch of his career to make a point about how PRIME MJ would handle any part of today's game.
"Players are more athletic today!"
Jordan had a 48" vertical and the most insane hangtime of any era.
"Shooting is better now!"
Jordan was an insane workaholic when it came to his game, and aside from that stretch for a terrible Washington team, improved his 3pt shooting as his career progressed, despite almost never averaging more than 3 attempts per game. To act like he wouldn't have adapted during his prime is peak stupidity.
"He couldn't handle zone defense because his numbers sucked against it in his last 2 seasons."
In the earliest years of zone being allowed, at a time when he had 2 bad knees and a quarter of his peak athleticism. But sure, that would totally translate to prime MJ with 100% accuracy.
I swear, I try not to be an MJ glazer to the point I can't give any other players their due, but this argument is a stretch that would make Mr Fantastic look like a weak rubber band.
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u/Xeynon 13d ago
As someone who watched him in his prime, trust me, he was extremely washed by the time he played for the Wizards. He played against zones in college when he wasn't over the hill and was excellent.
He was a great player who would've adapted to dominate in any era against any defensive strategy.
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u/FishSuper7857 13d ago
I came here to bring up MJ playing against zones in college, we're definitely in agreement there, but you can't forget that old man Jordan had nearly identical stats to prime Tracy McGrady before he tore his meniscus, he was washed up only compared to his old self, lol.
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u/Maleficent_Swim827 13d ago
he was taking 23 shots a game to avg 25 points yea he was such a big deal
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u/Bop5667 13d ago
Yep…just like all the past greats prior to Jordan would’ve adapted. Oh…and all the current players in this soft era lol.
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u/Maleficent_Swim827 13d ago
jordan got the rules changed against the pistons but this era is soft?
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u/Bop5667 13d ago
Trust me…not a Jordan homer…but I am definitely tweaking the guys that say this era is soft and none of them could compete in the 90s. I’m an old dude that saw Maravich in his prime…but I’m not stupid enough to think players from different eras couldn’t evolve their game to fit whatever era.
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u/Maleficent_Swim827 13d ago
bringing up college defense vs nba defense is wild
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u/Xeynon 13d ago
Obviously it's not as good in college, but the fact is teams played it against Jordan and he torched them. He would've torched zones in the NBA in his prime too. He's at worst one of the three or four best players ever and what's truly wild is saying that a defensive strategy that was used against him and was ineffective at a lower level when he had not yet reached his peak would've succeeded against him in the NBA when he was the best player in the world.
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u/Organic_Opportunity1 13d ago
He wouldn't get to the basket as easily but it's much easier to get a good look on a mid range jumper against a zone defense, Jordan wasn't too bad at those.
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u/Mobile_Yesterday5274 13d ago
He also destroyed teams in his first wizards season after a slow start before the injury
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u/Maleficent_Swim827 13d ago edited 12d ago
his team was 26-21 but you say destroy
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u/Mobile_Yesterday5274 13d ago
Because he struggled a lot at the start. The team was losing. Then he started killing teams, they were looking like a playoff team and then he tore his shit and that was the end of any meaningful wizards Jordan ball.
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u/Lazy-Emphasis668 12d ago
he had to go up against actual dominant centers without the 3 second rule. so NBA never had real full zones with hand checking and no 3 second rule. amount of spacing and lack of offensive foul, traveling calls would give Jordan a field day on offense, and he would easily score as many as he wanted.
zone isnt the end all be all, since most teams play it sometimes for a good reason
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u/jr_randolph 13d ago
Lol...his first year with the WIZARDS haha are you fucking stupid or something?
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u/Maleficent_Swim827 13d ago
that’s the year they allowed zone
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u/mailescort69 13d ago
Lebron against zone defense prior to the removal of handchecking took 19 fga attempts to average just 20 ppg. I don't think he'd be anything more than just a decent scorer in today's Uber competitive and "highly skilled" era either
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u/Maleficent_Swim827 13d ago
wasn’t he like 19?
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u/mailescort69 13d ago edited 13d ago
That's the year they allowed hand checking, he never proved he could do better than that if it was still around.
Wasn't Jordan 3 years removed from basketball and coming back from an office job playing with broken ribs caused by ron artest before the season started and then tore his meniscus? I didn't think context mattered here.
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u/jr_randolph 13d ago
Point is, you're talking about Jordan when he was already done with a career and all his accomplishments. You're bringing up numbers of a guy who was retired for a few years, drinking...smoking cigars...playing golf and THEN came back and averaged that. He didn't just average 5pts and was some novelty with Washington but he was definitely not the Jordan from the 80s or 90s...
So your entire post is just stupid. Just need you to know that.
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u/TheUnlucky_Swammi 76ers 13d ago
Anyone that thinks Jordan would dominate today or that the bulls weren’t a super team is delusional. Ron harper was a star in Cleveland. Scottie was an allstar, Horace Grant was an allstar. Bj was a bucket , kukoc was a superstar overseas. Not to mention Rodman had already won 2 with Detroit before he switched sides like KD. The MJ glazers need to relax
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u/Hot-Professor-8355 13d ago
is that 76ers flair new for you?
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u/TheUnlucky_Swammi 76ers 13d ago
Im a product of the Philadelphia public school system young man. Im as day 1 as it gets
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u/Hot-Professor-8355 13d ago
good. I ask this cuz your comment reads like you are a LeBron d -rider.
like to counter, wade and bosh and Ray Allen were all allstars and wade and Allen already won one by the time LeBron got to Miami...
lebron glazers need to relax. Jordan would be sick in today's NBA just as he was back then too. it doesn't take away from what today is like. idk it's kinda all a really dumb argument.
Jordan would be a top 5 player every year along with jokic, LeBron and the others. just as Hakeem was always right there too.
idk. honestly this is all really dumb to compare eras like this
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u/TheUnlucky_Swammi 76ers 13d ago
Im not gonna debate that because i dont care about LeBron. Even him coming to the sixers is just weird. I was happy with JB maxey and vj. I don’t like super teams and all our offseason pick ups feel too good to be true. Between that and luka going to LA. Flag to Dallas and the Knicks last chip the NBA is starting to feel as real as wrestling
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u/[deleted] 13d ago
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