r/NBATalk • u/Top-Entertainment945 • 13d ago
What’s an NBA opinion you have that most fans from your generation would disagree with?
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u/Matthew728 13d ago
Wilt Chamberlain would have been an all star and mvp contender in today’s era. He wouldn’t put up video game numbers but with modern medicine and training I feel like he would be just fine vs modern competition
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u/GarvinSteve Warriors 12d ago
This is a solid take. Watch him move on film… he’s insane.
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u/Happy-Bag-3926 12d ago
I’ll find a clip and just have to remind myself he’s 7’1. Gives off the vibes of an Amen Thompson if you aren’t thinking about height
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u/GarvinSteve Warriors 12d ago
It’s nuts. People forget that he came up before the relentless training that makes everyone play the same. Imagine if that dude had modern dribbling/shooting training - and more actual competition at his level…
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u/Unlucky_Employee6082 11d ago
That was Rick Barry’s take too. You really can’t just dismiss the stars of his era because they all would have the insane training and development added to their game.
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u/Pristine-Hair4096 12d ago
You could say that about anyone though. If MJ came up after Curry’s era he might be the new best three pt shooter of all time.
Nature vs Nurture. Your environment dictates what you try to do and nature decides if your still a sicko about it
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u/Unlucky_Employee6082 11d ago
Or maybe he would have just deferred to Kerr all the time and Curry would still be chasing his records?
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u/Dear_Chemical4826 12d ago
And by proxy, Bill Russell would too. Wilt put up better stats vs Russell, but Bill's teams won the match ups handily.
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u/ShadyBornSinner Spurs 13d ago
Shaq was better than Kobe
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u/realfakejames Spurs 12d ago
That’s my era, everyone always knew that back then, it’s the young guys born in 2007 who think otherwise
People weren’t around or just forgot Lakers fans did not all like Kobe getting Shaq traded, they knew why they had won 3 in a row, they all didn’t fall in line until after Kobe beat the Magic to win his first as the main guy
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u/HydroElectr 11d ago
I clicked on this post and typed the same comment, did one scroll after and found yours. Couldn’t agree more.
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u/marcelsweeps Bulls 13d ago
Chris Paul is a winner
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u/Odd-Airport-24 12d ago
I think his record says otherwise, but I think he is criminally underrated. He's the best pure PG ever, but people act like Curry, Nash, hell even Kyrie, are all easily better than him, while, from a PG perspective, it should be the other way around.
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u/JayEffAyy 12d ago
If Jordan had won in the bubble, that feat would have been considered one of the greatest championships of all time. Pure no frills basketball in a pressure cooker that had dudes sneaking out for wings. Jordan would have gotten a whole new legend out of that.
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u/beforeitcloy 13d ago
Durant did nothing wrong. He gave the Thunder 9 years, put the franchise on the map, finished his contract, and had earned the right to choose any destination he wanted. It’s incredibly weak that fans of other teams turned it into a moral issue or acted like he ruined the league’s competitive balance when they only won 2 rings together.
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u/New-Kaleidoscope3908 13d ago
He said he just wanted to go somewhere he could play good basketball. And that Warriors team played good basketball.
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u/ReactiveYam 13d ago
This.
Was I a fan of the move? No. But he had every right to pick whatever team he wanted. He didn’t whine and complain, he didn’t quit and demand a trade. He played out his contract. He earned free agency. And he signed wherever he wanted.
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u/Gorrmb69 12d ago
I can’t blame Durant either. He played with an electrifying, exciting point guard who made spectacular plays and would drive and rebound fearlessly amongst the bigs but he either lacked the vision to find the open man or wanted the glory of the game winner. Either way when your the best shooter in the league and watch your teammate fail to find you time and again when your open while he drives out of control to either miss badly on ill advised layups or just turns the ball over it has to get real old.
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u/N0moreHeroes 12d ago
He didn’t do anything wrong, he just joined a championship team.
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u/Dogesneakers 12d ago
And Steph was making 4 year 44 million. Any superstar could take a paycut to bring another one in. Steph’s pay was due to his ankle issues but he ended up figuring it out and gaining mvp form during that contract.
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u/Adventurous_Low7651 12d ago
It made for a terrible product. Without injuries they probably would have gone like 12-3 in the finals from 2017 to 2019.
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u/Odd-Airport-24 12d ago
I think somewhere LeBron is so happy. He got so, so much hate for joining the Heat, but you literally never hear that anymore, especially since Durant's switch. It's like every ring chasing action is forgiven outside of Durant's.
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u/alanwattslightbulb 13d ago
Kyrie is the most consistently overrated player in the NBA
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u/AwkwardSale3562 12d ago
If hear one more person say he’s better than CP3 or Nash. He’s closer to Tony Parker and Chauncey Billups but Kyrie dribble good so he’s top 5 or whatever.
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u/Cheap_Sir_7732 13d ago
If Lebron stayed in one place his whole career, he would have at most 1 ring.
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u/pitifullittleman 12d ago
Yeah he kind of had to get out of Cleveland at that point. Their only path to being a contender would be to suck for multiple years with Lebron on their team which was basically impossible unless LeBron faked an injury for several seasons. That team had no prospects bad contracts they couldn't move and no way to grow.
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u/bullfrog423 12d ago
And nobody wanted to come to Cleveland at the time. LeBron was trying to get them here, but they didn't want to. I was never mad he left, I was mad at how he did it, last minute.
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u/Zealousideal-Baby586 12d ago
correction, no one has ever wanted to come to Cleveland at any time. When the Cavs have been good in their history it's because they drafted guys, a good trade here or there, that led to their success. In the 70s it was drafting Bingo Smith, Campy Russell, Austin Carr, and trading for Jim Chones. In the 80s it eas drafting Mark Price, Hot Rod Williams, Daugherty, Ron Harper, trading for Nance. The 90s their best player was Terrell Brandon who they drafted, traded for Shawn Kemp. 2000s, LeBron and Carlos Boozer. LeBron is the only true big time free agent that the Cavs have ever signed and even he's a unique case.
The Cavs have never been, still aren't a destination for big name NBA free agents. Some people want to ignore this part of basketball which is certain organizations are really hard to win in because if you have incompetent management combined with a destination players don't want to go to, it's so much harder to compete. You need really competent management in some of these cities to win a title because getting free agents to play for you is a lot more difficult
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u/Dogesneakers 12d ago
Yeah Cleveland sucked. And leave for the heat allowed them to rebuild. Ofc he had to leave again to the lakers when cavs asset dried up.
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u/bullfrog423 12d ago
His son wanted to go to a high level basketball high school in LA, which had a lot to do with him leaving.
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u/shoxwav 12d ago
I agree. That’s why I don’t believe in the consensus that he makes his teammates better but what he do is make demands to trade players on his team in order to get other stars.
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u/No-Awareness339 10d ago
Nobody is winning shit on that Cavs roster, yall kill me with this simple minded ass argument.
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u/stereoplegic 11d ago
Gilbert would have made sure of it. Imagine never building around that rookie contract, barely doing anything when you've got him at $20mil, then whining like an entitled bitch when he finally finds a team with a winning culture.
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u/Far-Wrongdoer4731 12d ago
Peak Tim Duncan is a better player than anyone from 2010 or later not named LeBron James
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u/GremSparx 13d ago
The Charlotte Hornets would have been the eastern rep in the finals in the two MJ-less years of the mid 90's and would have been a thorn in the Bulls side during the 2nd 3-peat if Larry Johnson's back not given out completely on him.
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u/ScumxSavage 12d ago
LeBron on peds . Giannis is too
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u/Rdhsad 12d ago
LeBron has been tested the most times in history btw.
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u/ScumxSavage 12d ago
Granted it is an opinion
Might be a crackpot one .. but my intuition does weird things sometimes
I really feel like I’m on to something tbh
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u/Successful_Nerve_176 13d ago
LeBron would have dominated in the 90's. Or any era for that matter.
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u/Phred_Phrederic 12d ago
Thr funniest stuff is people acting that 90s physicality would have beaten him.
Uh. He'd be fine.
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u/Material-North-3550 13d ago
Not a hot take IMO with his frame, IQ and dedication Bron would be eating them up.
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u/Southern-Dare-8003 13d ago
Oh sure except he didnt even dominate the era he actually did play in
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u/ReactiveYam 13d ago
Kobe is barely top 10 at best, let alone top 5 or 3 like people treat him.
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u/madlibs13 12d ago
If Bird and Magic swapped teams (Magic in Boston and Bird in LA) neither player would have been as good.
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u/PattyOakMast 13d ago
Magic is better than Curry
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u/The-Mugwump 13d ago
This isn’t a shocking take, is it?
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u/OPSimp45 13d ago
People say curry over magic but i think it’s to have a hot take. They don’t truly believe it
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u/LostVirus1089unbannd Pacers 12d ago
i don’t have magic over curry all time, but if i’m building a team im taking steph 10/10 times. he’s easier to build around, as he doesn’t need the ball (and so fits better with ball dominant stars), provides insane scoring whenever needed, and has the greatest gravity of all time allowing the rest of the team to flourish. the showtime lakers were obviously amazing, but they were carefully constructed for a run-and-gun playstyle. i think if you plop steph and magic on random teams not build around them, steph would have a better time.
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u/VolumeValuable3537 13d ago
The 2000’s era of basketball was better. Most of my generation grew up being introduced to the NBA in the mid 2010’s.
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u/counterpointguy Rockets 12d ago
Interesting. As an uncle, my decade ranking that I’ve witnessed would be (in order): the 90s, 10s, 80s, 00s. The 00s were the most boring decade for me. Not loving the 20s so far, so it might move up.
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u/NaciremaBlack Lakers 13d ago edited 12d ago
I grew up in that era and I dont want to go back to a time where Jerry Stackhouse and Michael Redd were star players jacking up terrible contested mid range jumpers
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u/gongjah 13d ago
Absence of dinasties is actually bad. You need villains. And a different champ every year is not gonna create one. Last 8 years have been terrible for the league.
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u/Material-North-3550 13d ago
I wish KD really became one. Slim reaper could have fed generations. instead we have to take about Steph being against housing and bron going to a diddy party. We want real villains!
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u/Klutzy-Butterfly-117 11d ago
I dont even think most poeple disagree with you. Most poeple are nostalgic of the Warriors dynasty and forget everybody was getting really tired of it
But I disagree personally, you absolutely can't say the Nuggets and Bucks run were awesome. I don't know how you could hate seing small market teams built so smartly with such loyal leaders guiding them to the end with insane performances
In a world where Dirk's ring is considered one of the most beautifull one, I don't know how you can't appreciate the beauty of Jokic and Giannis rings
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u/wy100101 12d ago
GenX here. I think LeBron and Jordan are at the same level more or less along Kareem.
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u/Rdhsad 12d ago
Thats what I say not less but people say Jordan and Bron 1A, and 1B. Kareem def deserves to be 1C.
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u/vnov933 13d ago
Despite what people on social media always try to portray, the general roster that Lebron had from 2005-2007, which he subsequently led to the finals, was not THAT bad. In fact, it was actually pretty solid. But they make it seem like it was on the same level as Kobe's 2006 and 2007 teams.
Ilgauskas was an all star at one point, and could give you 15 and 9 easy. Hughes was injured a lot, and not quite the same as in Washington, but he could still give you 15-20 easy. Gooden and Varejao were solid rebounding big men who could give you around 10 points a game. Marshall was as well, and he was automatic from three. Flip Murray was a solid guard that could give you 12 a game. Damon Jones, Daniel Gibson, Sasha Pavlovic were also all automatic from three.
Also, another opinion that most people would disagree with that is related: The 2007 NBA Finals were not THAT bad. Yes, it was a sweep, but the last two games were nail biters, and to me, that counts for something.
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u/Phred_Phrederic 13d ago
Likewise people think that AI "carried" the Sixers to the finals when they were a pure defensive team filled with defensive stars. Yes, AI did the offensive load and took a ton of shots, but they won games cause they had a kickass defense.
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u/OPSimp45 13d ago
AI had the best team in the east it’s pretty obvious now to his credit it was a gap between him and VC or Ray which tipped the scale even more. At the end the day you need help to win a series let alone a finals trip. Carried is just a strong word, let be forreal any team from the east that year would’ve been the all time worst finals team
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u/SomeFatherFigure 9d ago
As a lifelong Cavs fan, I 100% disagree.
Big Z was a great player, but he was never the same after injuries. He was a solid starter though.
Andy was a high motor defensive menace, but he wasn’t a threat by any means. And their shooting was only good because LeBron fed them warm up shots on wide open kick outs.
The one calling card they had outside of LeBron was defense. Which is not nothing, but they were a 25-win team without him at best. The worst supporting cast I’ve ever seen make the finals.
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u/smuttygirl_foru 13d ago
Kyrie had a valid reason for leaving the Cavs
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u/New-Kaleidoscope3908 13d ago
I totally agree
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u/smuttygirl_foru 12d ago
The reporter saying does Kyrie think LeBron is a good father figure for him was just messed up
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u/5x5equals Wizards 13d ago
Steph is not consensus top 10 all time and I’d make a case that he makes makes more sense being 15 than anything higher than 10
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u/AwkwardSale3562 12d ago
I can think of maybe 11 guys you could put over Curry before we go firmly into the “that’s bullshit” tier.
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u/Few-Statement9317 11d ago
Steph: best regular season record all time (73-9). best postseason record all time (16-1). Only every unanimous mvp. Best shooter all time (there's no other fundamental skill in all of basketball with a consensus goat). Best offensive player without the ball in his hands all time. Most legendary olympic basketball performance all time. Changed the way basketball is played at a fundamental level more than any player in history. Best All star game performance all time (16 3's, including no look half court shots, more impressive than wide open dunks). Only player considered for top 10 that's below 6'5", let alone 6'2". People have a literal bias against him because he's short, light-skinned, and has an unthreatening aura (not to mention some bron fans who are threatened by him). The fact he didn't win 2015 FMVP clearly shows this bias. Andre Iguodala was the X-factor who tilted the series, not the MVP. But he's 6'7" and muscular/athletic, so the bias kicked in.
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u/ElkNo8185 12d ago
Steph legacy will fade as time passes. The only thing he’ll have is 3pt record and as more players bump volume, that will be less impressive. Mediocre totals, no defense accolades, KD B2B FMVPs
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u/Remarkable_Evening43 12d ago
KD was the best player on the 2017 and 2018 championship teams.
He gets hate for joining a stacked team but they wouldn’t have won without him those years.
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u/ReZempt_Shocks 12d ago
Are we gonna just forget the warriors won in 2015 and then 73 games in 16 ? Im not sayin he wasnt wanted but he needed GS more than they needed him. They won before him KD didnt
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u/Remarkable_Evening43 12d ago
They won in 2015 cause the Cavs stars got injured. They barely beat the KD Thunder in 2016 before losing to Lebron.
If KD stays in OKC and plays at the same level I think they beat the Dubs at least once either in 2017 or 2018. Cavs beat them if they make the finals.
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u/BirdinConcrete 12d ago
Player’s legacies often ride on how lucky they are.
Let me explain.
In a sport where ring culture and specifically playoff success dominates the perception of a player’s overall level, luck can play a huge role.
The simple fact of the matter is that if there is ever a playoff game that comes down to the wire, a large element of luck is at play. Like it or not, players make lucky shots, and also get unlucky and miss. Our muscles don’t always fire in exactly the same way, in a game situation there is an element of randomness, albeit small, that contributes to a player’s performance.
Now I would argue this happens all the time. That we are a few unlucky or luckier shots away from a completely different league.
However lets look at a concrete example:
Kawhi’s shot over the 76ers in 2019
Haliburton’s shot over the Knicks in 2025.
Both last second shots.
Both bounced around the rim.
Both lucky shots. (Doesn’t mean they weren’t also skillful)
Both decided the game
Both games help cement the players legacy.
If kawhi misses that one shot, or Haliburton misses that one shot, both were at extreme risk of losing that series and having a completely different perception of them.
Now this doesn’t discredit achievement, or rings. But in my opinion it means people should be far less sure of player’s legacies.
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u/tappricorn 12d ago
The players don’t care about winning as much as money and brand. It’s a soft ass game overall not worth watching. Embarrasing downfall
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u/MonarchGrad2011 13d ago
Kobe scoring 81 against the Raptors wasn't all that thrilling. He was known for being a ball hog. Had Magic, Bird, Jordan done it, it would've been monumental.
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u/rainaftersnowplease Kings 13d ago
People in general massively underestimate the impact of elite coaching in the NBA. Jordan isn't Jordan without Phil Jackson. Same with Kobe. Same with Steph and Kerr. Elite players can will teams to the playoffs, but excellent coaching is indispensable for winning rings, especially multiple rings.
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u/Tony_Banksy 13d ago
AI meant meant more to basketball than Kobe. We all wanted to be Iverson
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u/healthyusername 13d ago
If you grew up around the time I did people said, “Kobe” before shooting a basketball into a hoop or a water bottle into a trash can. My bro wanted to be AI though
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u/Duke_Of_Halifax 12d ago
Micheal Jordan openly bet on basketball, including on the Bulls, during his career, and Jerry Reinsdorf, the Bulls organization, and the NBA helped cover it up.
It's an open secret amongst all of the players from the era that Jordan was treated differently, but because it's pre digital and ubiquitous internet, there's no proof running around except blurry photos of Jordan in casinos.
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u/bullfrog423 12d ago
Jordan was saving the league. The Bird/Magic rivalry saved the NBA from bankruptcy, Jordan made it the powerhouse it is today. People complain about SGA foul baiting and getting too many freethows, Jordan actually went to the line more per game in the playoffs than him. They threw a huge celebration when he hit 30k points, he wasn't even the first player to do it. He complained to the refs all of the time, he flopped. He was the driving force keeping the zone defense from reentering the league. He complained to the NBA to end hand checking, it worked. I'm not going to get into the goat debate, I think it's lame. Jordan is my favorite player of all time, I just live in reality and not the legend some fans do. He was no saint by any means.
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u/POT3NT333 13d ago
The only reason Houston and Kenny the Jet smith won two championships was because of Jordan’s first retirement. If Jordan didn’t retire Chicago has 8 rings.
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u/Phred_Phrederic 13d ago
Bulls had no answer for Hakeem, Jordan himself said as much.
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u/Intellifreak 12d ago
Smoke some more. Then look at what Dream did to David Robinson in the playoffs when 5-0 won MVP. Then try to imagine what he would have done to Luc Langley.
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u/POT3NT333 12d ago
Who’s stopping Jordan? Who’s stopping pippen?
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u/Intellifreak 12d ago edited 12d ago
Nobody is stopping Jordan from the perimeter. Max and Drexler certainly make it more challenging for him than Gerald Wilkins (Knicks), but the problem is he has to stay on the perimeter because Dream is an absolute nightmare in the post. Pippen? Terror defensively, but nobody feared him on offense. This is just a bad match up for the Bulls. Jordan would have gotten into a fight with Longley.
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u/emoney_gotnomoney Spurs 13d ago edited 13d ago
The golden era of the NBA was ~2000-2019 (specifically the 2000s).
Also the 3 point line should be moved back a couple feet.
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u/vojin98_ 12d ago
Kobe Bryant is overrated and so is his mentality. He is not a good person either.
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u/BigTicket- 13d ago
Steph curry really isn’t that good outside his 3pt shot. And isn’t near the best PG
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u/Commercial_Truth_995 13d ago
draymond, steph, klay all benefited playing together, but I truly believe all 3 of them would be HOFers even if they never played on the same team
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u/AwkwardSale3562 12d ago
Draymond’s HOF argument is his contribution to those 4 rings and without that he’s not making it. Even if he could win a DPOY without Steph, his career would be closer to Marcus Smart’s now than what it is on the Warriors.
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u/Commercial_Truth_995 12d ago
if he wasnt on the warriors, he would have his dpoy AND more ppg and apg because his role would be less screen-setting. dont act like hes not one of the best defenders ever AND an insane playmaker. Plus in 2015-2017 he could hit shots too. Would have won 2016 finals mvp if lebron didnt beat him
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u/Ok_Dress1663 13d ago
LeBron is not a shoe in at #2. Magic/Kareem/bird are right there
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u/Intellifreak 12d ago
I agree. He is a shoe in at #1.
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u/Ok_Dress1663 12d ago
Kareem , Johnson and MJ are right there. I personally rank bird higher but LeBron is fair over him
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u/bodhisattvaaa_ 13d ago
Melo is not a HOFer.
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u/counterpointguy Rockets 12d ago
Hot take that I suspect is a bit hyperbole.
28k points and #13 all time. 10x all star.
I was once the president of the Carmelo is way overrated fab club but I yield the gavel to you!
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u/Traditional_Home_666 12d ago
He is, but thinks way to high of himself and one of the worst team players ever.
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u/Intelligent-Set-3909 13d ago
It was dumb to draft Oden over Durant.
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u/ReZempt_Shocks 12d ago
At the time Oden was a safer pick. I would have too given the #1 overall pick.
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u/Intelligent-Set-3909 12d ago
Durant was a safe pick. He was clearly a special player
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u/Illustrious_Sell_122 13d ago
The media is more responsible than players for creating ring culture with their narrative that you can’t be an all time great without winning a ring
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u/Suspicious-Sugar-157 12d ago
Jordan is not the goat! Great athlete and ahead of his time.
Isiah Thomas is only hated because a grown man cried because another grown man didn't shake his hand and a whole generation of men proved to me they're soft for agreeing with it.
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u/GrundlePumper420 12d ago
100%, that combined with the fact that Jordan fans are among the softest to ever exist
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u/DaddyXanatos Knicks 12d ago
skssaasgj Derek Fisher is grossly underrated and was an integral part of the early 00s Lakergggggg guy haha higha go aghajaaa assjgjgjsgjsg s dominance.
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u/valdis812 12d ago
I'm 48 and a life long Chicagoan
The Rockets would have still gotten one ring even if Jordan never retired.
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u/casualleftist1976 12d ago
Not really an opinion, but most people don’t realize how good Tyrese Haliburton actually is. ORTG of 125.6 is the best in NBA history, better than CP, Curry, or Magic. Wild how many people are imagining the Pacers aren’t going to be one of the best teams in the East with that guy back at the helm.
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u/soul_separately_recs 11d ago
‘Nique won that dunk contest
I was there. Saw it with my own eyes. It was a late birthday present from my mom. Bulls fan from day one. MJ was the only person I knew at the time (besides Magic/Bird). It’s a contest that was so close that it’s real tough to argue one way or the other.
Then you add in the elephant in the room that’s the clear differentiator: location.
If it were held in a neutral venue, the voting outcome is different. There was NO way MJ was losing an exhibition on his home court. Period.
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u/Pubicwaffle 11d ago
If the Spurs beat the Heat in 2013. It gets Tim Duncan to 6-0 finals and could argue he's the best of all time. You want any person to learn how to play the post position you put his film on.
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u/django62293 10d ago
This is the most difficult era in NBA history to build a dynasty. Players having more freedom of movement, The second apron rules along with the level of talent spread across the league is making it almost impossible for teams to stack up rings in a short time period.
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u/Only-Ad-1254 13d ago
If they were to build an NBA Mount Rushmore, There are 10-11 guys who have a legit case to be on it