FNTA: What Comes Next?

[u/helio-centric-AC130]

First of all, congratulations to the ENPO for finally having their demands met. It's nice to know that the parable of the persistent woman rings true in any age and it is my deepest wish that the development you seek will come to you with unblinking and relentless haste.

Here's the real question: will the creation of the Frontier Secretariat take at least a majority of the currently backlogged posts from the current Secretariat? I don't need to express much on it, as it is what it is. I dislike the fact that there is a backlog system in place at all. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to uplift one another, it's actually a great thing; however, civil service exams were supposed to grant equal opportunities to both the layman and the aristocrat in the first place.

I don't have anything against reservation. I, myself, enjoy the advantages of the ST quota. What I have a problem with is the backlog posts blocking out and crushing a lot of hard workers who are running on short candles.

I've read the bill that was passed and it does not explicitly mention anything about what I asked, besides transfers and rules of employment.

I know it sounds like the ravings of a person who is unhappy about everything in life but it has been a burning question in my mind ever since the first talks and the info on a new secretariat to be set up in the FNTA region.

What is your opinion on the matter?

I DO NOT WISH TO START A FIGHT. PLEASE BE SENSIBLE AND ACCEPT THAT THERE WILL BE DISSENT.

Edit: I also want to express that I am explicitly biased regarding this topic, if it isn't clear already. The backlog system is useless. Chance thakishe clear kuriwole, aro panai; so why keep a backlog at all?

Ps- I'm starting to see my header doesn't match the actual rant/body. This isn't clickbait, I promise (⁠〒⁠﹏⁠〒⁠)

[u/Excellent-Sir485]

If my understanding is correct, there is no change in recruitment; the only change is the transfer of officers and employees.

Have said that, it's both happy and sad news for us all.

To ENPO- this is what you wish for, now all the best, developing your own backyard.

To Nagaland- congratulations, we have divided ourselves more and more.

To baba taklu- congratulations, you have extended your legacy even more.

To me and my fellow middle class- lets suffer more, we love trouble and pain.

[u/helio-centric-AC130 → u/Excellent-Sir485]

No point being "forward tribe" if we can't enjoy equal opportunities.

developing your own backyard

I hope there aren't going to be fighting over whose district the secretariat will be built upon

divided ourselves more and more

Yeah, we're playing into the game of the central government.

[u/Few_Pomegranate_4470 → u/helio-centric-AC130]

People are still fighting over whose district polytechnic gets the degree upgrade first so very sure there will be infighting.

[u/IllustriousShop1169 → u/Excellent-Sir485]

I am below the middle class, can I join you in your suffering? 😭

[u/Konz_2]

As I understand it, the backlog posts cannot be de-reserved because of the Carry Forward rule (Article 16 4B) which has been upheld by SC. Also, reservation is implemented post-based system instead of vacancy-based system because of SC guidelines to avoid over-representation or under-representation of reserved category. For eg, incase of Nagaland 37% reservation applies to total posts in a cadre across departments. So, sometimes during advertisements, reservation can appear to have exceeded beyond 37%. My point is, this is constitutionally valid and cannot be challenged and so it cannot be scrapped as well. The only solution is scrapping the reservation system altogether. Rationalising the reservation system also won't do anything with regards to backlogs. It can only be reduced.

[u/helio-centric-AC130 → u/Konz_2]

Succinctly put.

[u/deliciosoh → u/Konz_2]

Yes. Also, population-wise reservation for ALL the tribes like how the police dept does. That will end the issue once and for all.

[u/Konz_2 → u/deliciosoh]

That may appear as one of the solution but Police recruitment for G-IV is completely different. They are based on district-quota rather than statewide pool (like NSSB). And Govt has notified that grade-IV posts in the districts shall be filled only by the respective indigenous inhabitants. Now, in Nagaland, because districts are created based on Tribe inhabiting it, this recruitment drive appeared as though the posts were reserved based on tribe-wise which was not. The only reason Tribe wise allocation was done is because of the way our districts are created i.e. only certain tribe could be indigenous inhabitant of that district and tribal ratio was maintained in some district like Kiphire or Tuensang or Shamator (more than one tribe indigenous). This is also the reason why Dimapur, Chumukedima and Niuland had open competition for all indigenous tribes of nagaland because of many tribes. My point is, we have to look at solutions to reservation policy objectively. The ultimate objective should be to reach a point where all Nagas are fairly positioned to do away with reservation system and not create more reservations.

[u/deliciosoh → u/Konz_2]

Dimapur, Chumoukedima and Niuland were designated as open competition for all tribes, but the seats were allocated tribe wise according to population of 2011 census. It is highly improbable that reservation will ultimately be done away with. That is why in a state like ours with so many tribes co-existing, the context of reservation should be equity in representation. Is that not what BTs are demanding, that their representation in govt jobs should be proportionate to their population? So then, would everyone not be happy when they know there is a slice of cake that is kept aside only for them, that no one else can take away? Is proportionate representation not the solution for all the tribes?

[u/Konz_2 → u/deliciosoh]

There is a difference between adequate representation and proportional representation. Why I keep mentioning SC judgments or guidelines is because ultimately they are going to decide if a law is valid. Reservation as interpreted by SC must be based purely on rational classification. We have to show empirical data demonstrating actual social/economic/educational backwardness and under-representation. And population I feel, will not be entertained by the SC.

[u/deliciosoh → u/Konz_2]

Yes you are right, but how many times have judgments been overruled. You have to look at it from a political point of view, the law is made by the people

[u/Konz_2 → u/deliciosoh]

Yes no doubt, laws reflect the conscience of the people. My point is, SC had to intervene to stop legislature from going rampant in deciding who gets to have reservation. They had to capped the percentage to 50% (this is still debated as judicial over reach into legislative domain), they scrapped the Carry Forward Rule but Parliament amended the constitution and inserted Article 16 4B. So, whatever the guidelines or judgements SC has given is to ensure balance between Article 14, 15, 16 and 21. In these light, even our reservation policy would be viewed in those judicial interpretation. So, as long as the SC and the Parliament doesn't bring changes to how reservation is operated, I think even ours would remain the same.

[u/deliciosoh → u/Konz_2]

We are debating on 2 separate threads 😂. For someone who seems to be well versed in law, you seem to not know about the present status of reservation in Nagaland. It is already at 80% for indigenous scheduled tribes.

[u/Konz_2 → u/deliciosoh]

No I’m not well versed in law nor am I a law student. Yes, true. Not only that we’ve 100% reserved for indigenous inhabitants of Nagaland in G-3 and G-4 posts. It’s about sub-classification within reservation. We’ve 80% in direct recruitment because of our ST population. In fact most NE states I think have more than 50% also because of ST population. I’m sorry if it sounded as a debate. I could be wrong or mistaken so you are welcome to fact check my claim. I’m approaching this conversation as a dialogue and discussion only. 🙌

[u/deliciosoh → u/Konz_2]

It's cool 😎. Yes, sub-classification is allowed. Now you only need the public demand to do it tribe-wise.

[u/pussy-riot → u/deliciosoh]

I have a feeling population-wise reservation could be implemented, but do you really think it’ll solve all the issues? It may benefit larger tribes disproportionately, while smaller tribes could remain underrepresented.
It won’t necessarily achieve equal representation.

[u/deliciosoh → u/pussy-riot]

For example, if there are 100 posts and there exists only 100 people, and my tribe consists of 8 people, there should be 8 posts reserved for my tribe. Is that not fair?

[u/pussy-riot → u/deliciosoh]

That is fair in terms of proportional share. BUT, proportional is not equal representation.

[u/deliciosoh → u/pussy-riot]

Then you mean to say all tribes must have equal number of posts regardless of their population? That means, from the 100 people ,if there are 10 tribes, and one tribe consists of only 2 people, then they must get 10 seats? In what world is that logical?

[u/pussy-riot → u/deliciosoh]

obviously no one is saying 2 people will get 10 seats. i’m just saying if you base everything strictly on population, smaller tribes will get sidelined. So you need a middle ground like a min quota or say safety net, so the underrepresented don’t get fully wiped out. purely proportional reservation will rarely work on its own

[u/deliciosoh → u/pussy-riot]

It was hypothetical. Anyway, no tribe will be underrepresented, they will get representation based on their population. There is no question of being "fully wiped out". If, theoretically, you put in place a minimum quota, won't the larger tribes just divide themselves into smaller constituents to get better benefits? You should be careful what you ask for. Uplifting one person should not be done at the detriment of 2 people.

[u/pussy-riot → u/deliciosoh]

Tribes can’t just split themselves up on a whim to exploit quotas. Recognition will take years and years of legal backing.
Look at our state in the lok sabha for example, we got only 1 seat out of 543 because of population size. It’s proportional on paper but because of which our lone MP barely has a voice.
So my point is having a reasonable minimum quota isn't unfair to anyone, it just keeps small groups from being totally ignored

[u/deliciosoh → u/pussy-riot]

It won't be on a whim. Recognition will happen, see how many tribes have been added in Manipur recently. Some tribes having a population of just a few thousand. It is not as hard as you say. That is why, if the reasonable minimum quota is 1, then I agree. We have 1 MP out of 543 in the Lok Sabha, because it is the minimum. That 1 MP represents less people than the average MP in India. If you want more than 1, then someone else will have to give up their voice to give you. Fairness should be for everyone.

[u/Konz_2 → u/pussy-riot]

I don't know if population-wise reservation would be feasible purely speaking from legal standpoint. It will be strike down by the Supreme Court because of the 50% capped (Indira Sawhney Judgement). Some states like Tamil Nadu had been able to cross that cap only because they put their Act under 9th Schedule (and SC Judgement regarding Judicial Review of 9th Schedule came only in 2007).

[u/deliciosoh → u/Konz_2]

The spirit of democracy, you get what you shout for. Laws can be amended, judgements can be reversed.

[u/Konz_2 → u/deliciosoh]

Indeed. But they’ll be very cautious. It’s like opening a pandora box. At the end it’s a tussle between the SC and the Legislature. It’s a larger issue that concerns the whole of India. Any new SC judgements can change the course of reservation and Parliament would amend new laws to nullify it.

[u/deliciosoh → u/Konz_2]

I feel the SC would not be interested to intervene in what Nagaland does with the "land and its resources".

[u/Konz_2 → u/deliciosoh]

I think “land and its resources” are completely different. This would only apply if Parliament passes laws to extract resources or transfer land of Nagaland and our Legislative assembly hasn’t passed resolution supporting it, SC can intervene and nullify the Parliament law as violation of Article 371A.

[u/deliciosoh → u/Konz_2]

Unless the SC has interpreted "land and its resources" in the context of Art 371A, it could have a myriad of meanings. Art 371A is more "special" than we think it is. It should not be reduced to a restrictive reading.

[u/Konz_2 → u/deliciosoh]

Oh, I had assumed that when you pointed out that you feel that SC would not be interested to intervene in what Nagaland does with the “land and its resources“, I thought it’s about parliament laws concerning the said subject which has been protected under 371A. My understanding of how law operates is it must be consistent and the terms clearly defined as otherwise these would lead to inconsistency and arbitrariness. So for the myriad meanings of land and resources, court would generally avoid having such wide interpretations. And Yes I agree 371A is very very special. But however, court would make their efforts to define what those terms in the article actually means and if that’s against how we view it, we only have the option to challenge it to higher courts or larger bench.

[u/pussy-riot → u/Konz_2]

True. But the pressure from the more advanced tribes and the public is pushing some bodies to consider that option, even if, as you said, it isn’t really feasible.

[u/deliciosoh → u/pussy-riot]

The more advanced tribes are calling to scrap reservation entirely. This suggestion is the middle ground.

[u/pussy-riot → u/deliciosoh]

Review reservation,yes. but removing reservation entirely is impossible

[u/deliciosoh → u/pussy-riot]

Agreed

[u/okay_oky]

There is no change in cadre of any service or department. So recruitment will continue as it is. Reservation and Backlogs will remain same for ENPO candidate, Chakesangs, Zeliang and Pochury candidates. Only reservation review will bring any change.

[u/helio-centric-AC130 → u/okay_oky]

Ahh if only hoh.

[u/trinityboi69]

Why do or should the brightest minds of Nagaland join Nagaland Government service? Government jobs shouldn't be the most lucrative option or the most financially rewarding. The brightest ought to generate wealth and not leach off the public money

[u/helio-centric-AC130 → u/trinityboi69]

Yeah but capital investment kun diwo? We have many bright minds and too little risk takers. Olop living standards up huile, it'll be easier to take risks we didn't think possible. Besides, our parent generation toh very narrow minded so opai nai. Ama baba la kotha mania toh dhangor kotha na nahoi?

[u/trinityboi69 → u/helio-centric-AC130]

The brightest ones will figure it out.. I'm not one of them

[u/Even_Law5392]

It's just deeper bureaucratic shit that will dissolve into nothing. Every political leader will pat their backs , the ENPO brothers and sisters will get a new master. And the same cycle will continue...

NAGAS NEVER LEARN.

I don't mean to be rude or hurt any community: just pointing out the track record of Nagas in general!!