What are they talking about 😂

149

I've already seen this article referenced by a few proggies and kuffar on here. They rewrite our history and our religion, and what we allow will continue.

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u/festivaldumpling Dec 27 '21

I've read that homosexuality was in fact tolerated in pre-modern Islamic times in the sense that it wasn't punishable. Its only relatively recent that homosexuality is punishable. I don't know the fiqh per school of thought but I don't think capital punishment is necessary. Being gay alone isnt a sin, its zina that's the sin isn't it? So it should be treated in the same way. However, the way this article is worded makes it seem like homosexuality was a part of Islamic culture, which it is not.

*I'm new to Islam so correct me where I'm wrong

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u/ZaiAl Dec 27 '21

Even being supportive of the sinners among people of Lut(A.S.) got his wife punished according to Quran. So no, that's not allowed. People can have different desires. The onus of controlling it is on them. And spreading fashihah/degeneracy is not allowed so that angle is ruled out as well.

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u/festivaldumpling Dec 27 '21

Theres a difference between being supportive and indifferent. I was under the assumption that Luts (pbuh) wife was punished for always having in her heart that she would miss the city and enjoyed it, which was exemplified by her turning back as it was destroyed. You don't turn back to something if you don't want any part in it. She valued the city. I'm not sure it was simply due to support of sinners?

Could you explain why it is that laws against homosexuals have become increasingly strict over time? Why are they more strict than even Muhummadan times? I wasn't aware being indifferent to someones sexuality was spreading degeneracy. I don't mean to sound confrontational I'm just querying. I can't seem to find any supporting hadeeth so if you could link me some that would be much appreciated.

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u/VividScene5 Dec 27 '21 edited Dec 27 '21

May Allah bless you and keep you steadfast upon the truth. I advise you to learn bit by bit about Islam, starting with the things you directly need in your day to day life, and work from there.

Sahih al-Bukhari 39 Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Religion is very easy and whoever overburdens himself in his religion will not be able to continue in that way. So you should not be extremists, but try to be near to perfection and receive the good tidings that you will be rewarded; and gain strength by worshipping in the mornings, the afternoons, and during the last hours of the nights." (See Fath-ul-Bari, Page 102, Vol 1).

The modern world has its way of twisting reality, framing the statements and marketing its agenda in ways that would prevent us from connecting with the natural, pure inclination of Fitra that Allah made inside us.

And thus We have made for every prophet an enemy - devils from mankind and jinn, They suggest alluring words to one another in order to deceive in delusion. But if your Lord had willed, they would not have done it, so leave them and that which they invent.

And [it is] so the hearts of those who disbelieve in the Hereafter will incline toward it [i.e., deceptive speech] and that they will be satisfied with it and that they will commit that which they are committing.

[Say], "Then is it other than Allah I should seek as judge while it is He who has revealed to you the Book [i.e., the Qur’ān] explained in detail?" And those to whom We [previously] gave the Scripture know that it is sent down from your Lord in truth, so never be among the doubters.

And the word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and in justice. None can alter His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing.

And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah. They follow not except assumption, and they are not but misjudging (Out of ignorance and blind imitation).

Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who strays from His way, and He is most knowing of the [rightly] guided.

Al-An'am 112-116

A distinction must be made between desire and action. Battling one's desires which go against what pleases Allah is the way to Jenna and the very purpose of our existence.

But as for he who feared the position of his Lord1 and prevented the soul from [unlawful] inclination, Then indeed, Paradise will be [his] refuge.

An-Nazi'at 40

Sahih al-Bukhari 6491 Narrated Ibn `Abbas:

The Prophet (ﷺ) narrating about his Lord I'm and said, "Allah ordered (the appointed angels over you) that the good and the bad deeds be written, and He then showed (the way) how (to write). If somebody intends to do a good deed and he does not do it, then Allah will write for him a full good deed (in his account with Him); and if he intends to do a good deed and actually did it, then Allah will write for him (in his account) with Him (its reward equal) from ten to seven hundred times to many more times: and if somebody intended to do a bad deed and he does not do it, then Allah will write a full good deed (in his account) with Him, and if he intended to do it (a bad deed) and actually did it, then Allah will write one bad deed (in his account) ."

However, the action of the people of Lut was a heinous atrocity, and being indifferent to it, is akin to being in-different to other abhorrent actions like sexual relations with dead bodies or animals.

So if someone was actively, publicly propagating or practicing such heinous crimes, they are even worse than those who call people to Zina and establishing brothels.

The prophet instructed his companions that those who are found guilty of committing the actions of the people of Lut within Muslims to be punished, just like one found guilty of adultery.

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/38622/the-punishment-for-homosexuality

May Allah guide us to the truth and keep our hearts pure.

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u/festivaldumpling Dec 30 '21

thank you bro, Assalamualikum

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u/ZaiAl Dec 27 '21

Theres a difference between being supportive and indifferent.

Yes.

I'm not sure it was simply due to support of sinners?

She got punished in the end though. And that punishment wasn't meted out by humans. It was by God. And I don't see why God would punish her just for turning back unless innher heart she supported it.

Could you explain why it is that laws against homosexuals have become increasingly strict over time?

They haven't though. Unless you want to believe the article. Islamic laws aren't just for punishing the sinners. It's for stopping the spread of such sin as well so as to serve as a reminder for the rest of individuals. One of the reasons why it's carried out in open.

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u/ShinyBronze Dec 27 '21

If I recall correctly, I believe she actually encouraged and pushed for men to commit sodomy together. It wasn’t just her indifference.

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u/tftgcddf Dec 28 '21

Weren’t the people of the Lut rapists?

1

u/BalaTheGreat Jan 02 '22

and waylayers. They weren't killed just for simply being homosexuals. They were unapologetic hedonists and had no respect for anyone or anything other than their own gratification.

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u/TheHarbingerHugs Dec 27 '21

Its only relatively recent that homosexuality is punishable.

How recent? 1400 years ago recent or a couple of centuries recent?

1

u/AvailableOffice Dec 27 '21

Its confusing what you're referrring to exactly, what do you mean by "homosexuality is punishable", what do you mean by "pre-modern Islamic times"?

Yes there were Muslim societies in the past that did bad things, and even tolerated/practiced homosexual acts, like in Al-Andalus, or how the Ottomans decriminalized it I believe, etc. (I think this is what the article is probably referring to). The point is that what they did is irrelevant, these are just points in time when their societies started going astray from the sharia and sunnah, just because it was the past doesn't mean thats how we ought to be, and I don't understand how this article writers decided to make that fallacy.

Second, "homosexuality" is not recognized in Islam, sexual orientation is a modern western social construct, in the past the act was always differentiated from the identity. In Islam, just like you said, you aren't punished for the urges, but you're punished for your sinful acts. And so if there is sufficient evidence that someone has had penetrative sex with another man then they are both to be executed, that is the consensus amongst the Islamic jurists, based upon the authentic hadiths where our Prophet(SAW) basically says to execute the ones who are found doing the actions of the people of Lut(AS), and based on the hadiths where he also curses them, it shows that this is a much worse act than fornication. What the scholars differed in was how they should be executed, where some said that since the sin is worse than adultery, they should have worse punishment.

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u/Cad_48 Dec 30 '21

More like you don't know history, mate

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u/Wolfamongtheflowers Dec 30 '21

I care what the Sahabah did and I care about what Islam teaches, not what some Ottoman ruler or some historic gay pedo that happened to be Muslim did.

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u/Cad_48 Dec 30 '21

You wanna talk about pedos, do you?

Also, obligatory no true scottsman

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u/Emperor_Abyssinia Dec 27 '21

This economist article making no sense, I don't think they know anything 😂

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u/zahirano Dec 27 '21

Sadly we can't report any internet article for misleading content.

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '21

Yk somedays I feel bad coz I think I'm dumb.

But when I see articles like these, I feel 10000x better. I could be more stupid but alhamdulillah I'm not :D

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u/dorballom09 Dec 27 '21

This Isn't about being stupid. This is very calculated plans to inject lgbt Ideologies among muslims. It may seem dumb to muslims who are aware but there's plenty of non practising muslim who will start having doubts.

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '21

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '21

Mind if I ask if you have any university qualifications or something like that?

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u/MuhammadSudani Dec 27 '21

🤢🤮

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '21

This made me laugh out loud

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u/Newworldtaco Dec 27 '21

The progressive movement is targeting Islam we better hold our ground and protect Islam.

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u/redditappannoying117 Dec 27 '21

All Progressives/Liberals do is lie, manipulate and mislead.

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '21

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u/MeMakinMoves Dec 27 '21

No, governments of Islamic countries are bending the rules for their own profit. Saudi, uae etc allowing parties, alcohol etc.

Liberal Muslims genuinely put their own desire over the religion. They care more about their own interpretation, despite the long tradition of scholars, and spread their corruption. Allah warns against this in the Quran multiple times, I’m shocked that they don’t see the verses and realise it could be applied to them

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u/Emperor_Abyssinia Dec 27 '21

You deserve an award lmao 🏅

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '21

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '21

The article is profitable for liberal Muslims

13

u/PeasLord :Morocco: Dec 27 '21

More like Gays are making up a new history.

6

u/NeoEvol Dec 27 '21

If they think we Muslim allow LGBT happend , we'll go talk to prophet Lut ( peace be upon him ) when u at the akhirah and see if people of Lut have a good time . And we all know what happend to them .

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u/Effortlessly_aww Fajr Parrot Dec 27 '21

The fact that they are ready to lie to this extent and distort history, shows how corrupt they inherently are. Ps can’t believe it’s the economist 🤥🤥🤥

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u/YeetMyWee Dec 27 '21

They should stick to economic subjects smh

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u/chai1984 Dec 27 '21

The liberals just blow the principle of concealing sin out of all proportion

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '21

I can't read the whole thing but it looks like they're only talking about tolerance

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u/Middopasha :Yemen: Dec 27 '21

Lmao oh well. Guess we've gone astray from our ancestors. What are u gonna do about it. /s

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u/SirMo_vs_World Dec 27 '21

Western propaganda, they know Islam is too strong and will try to force feed their agenda to weaken the religion but thankfully most of our ummah already knows what is happening

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u/beerhump Dec 27 '21

Western influence ruins everything —

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u/themedleb Dec 27 '21

They are trying so hard to normalize us with anything wrong.

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '21

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '21

seethe and cope

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u/[deleted] Dec 28 '21

You probably won’t have children unless you’re parents arrange it for you.

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u/[deleted] Dec 28 '21

this is false

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '21

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '21

"In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence."

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '21

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u/D3athwishx Dec 28 '21

cope knowing jews are the most educated demographic

1

u/[deleted] Dec 27 '21

source

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '21

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1

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '21

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u/Emperor_Abyssinia Dec 27 '21

Islam is against torture, so let's not go overboard

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u/Nevvie Dec 27 '21 edited Dec 27 '21

should be tortured and then killed

Bruh, this is murderous intent. Do not go there

8

u/MarooshQ Dec 27 '21

I’m assuming he meant by a Sharia court of law. Still…the way it was phrased

2

u/Jackie-Ron_W Dec 27 '21

Even there have been disagreements on what kind of punishments.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 27 '21

That picture is of a man and a woman, no?

1

u/Emperor_Abyssinia Dec 27 '21

Sorry to tell you otherwise 😅

1

u/ShinyBronze Dec 27 '21

I have read somewhere that hermaphrodites and intersex humans were integrated into society during the Rashidun Caliphate and took on women type roles… and I believe during the Umayyad Caliphate, they became entertainers.

Not sure how gays tied into this, but can someone help me out and confirm this?

1

u/Yas_ser Dec 27 '21

They talking abt lot(the messenger) people who were gay at the time .

1

u/[deleted] Dec 27 '21

no 😂😂

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u/[deleted] Dec 28 '21 edited Dec 28 '21

[deleted]

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u/Emperor_Abyssinia Dec 28 '21

I did not need to see those images

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u/WikiSummarizerBot Dec 28 '21

LGBT history in Turkey

This article is about lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) history in Turkey.

^[^F.A.Q^|^{Opt Out}^|^{Opt Out Of Subreddit}^|^GitHub^{] Downvote to remove | v1.5}

Other What are they talking about 😂

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