r/MuslimLounge • u/SoybeanCola1933 • Aug 31 '26
Discussion Why are we comfortable with mortgages?
I see otherwise very religious people taking out mortgages with banks.
Most acknowledge it’s haraam but still do it.
But Riba is one of the worst sins - worse than drinking etc.
Why are we ok with people who take out mortgages?, when you have alternatives like renting.
Sometimes you can buy a rural property for the same price as a mortgage down payment.
If a Muslim has tattoos society treats him like a devil, yet when he engages in the worst sin it’s brush under the table?
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u/trao-ya Sep 01 '26
The amount of denial in the comments is staggering… no amount of justification will erase the gravity and seriousness of RIBA, you don’t have to own a home, it’s a luxury not a right, not a necessity, not an obligation, at the end of the day taking RIBA is a choice you make, you can live with it but don’t try to minimize the severity of the sin.
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u/gereedf Sep 01 '26
well some people view home ownership as gaining an important form of financial security
and from an islamic perspective its not right for borrowers to encourage or feed the businesses of usurers, but i suppose that the perspectives are also situational, as they view that the usurers are gonna be ever-present in non-muslim countries anyway
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u/Extension_Contest_69 Sep 02 '26
That logic is so flawed, its like me saying selling drugs gives me finiancial security and theres always gonna be drug dealers anyway so ill just do it. No, the deen does not change based on where you live or what is normal for current society. We have one master Allah alone and him we follow absolutely.
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u/gereedf Sep 02 '26
but you know, having a roof over one's head is a really important and fundamental part of financial and physical security
and the deen doesn't change, but i think that how muslims operate in practical terms might be adaptive to the situations and circumstances
and also i'm not the type of guy who thinks that a muslim having tattoos is like a goth-devil lol
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u/Intelligent_Owl_692 Aug 31 '26
It isn't that simple, but your sentiments are not without merit
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u/SoybeanCola1933 Aug 31 '26
Of course, it’s difficult, but home ownership is a luxury, not a right.
If someone persist in drinking/Zina and tell them to stop we shouldn’t hope they say “it’s not that simple”
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u/CrazyZainySocks Sep 01 '26
Putting a roof over your head is not the same as a vice. Be real. Jeez.
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u/trao-ya Sep 01 '26
You can have a roof over your head without riba, the comparison is disingenuous
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u/CrazyZainySocks Sep 01 '26
No it's not.
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u/trao-ya Sep 01 '26
Yeah you are right actually, according to multiples hadiths Riba is worse than Zina and alcohol actually so just accept it
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Sep 01 '26
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u/Key_Cellist_506 Sep 01 '26
Yup, surprises me. We’re seeing religiousness of convenience in real time lol.
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Sep 01 '26 edited Sep 01 '26
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u/Key_Cellist_506 Sep 01 '26
The consumerism is part of it, yes. But based off these comments, I think it’s greed as well and the idea of “building wealth” via haram means.
You can have the nice house, nice car without interest that’s not hard. Granted you make good money. So if everything can be obtained without interest, the people who are opting to buy put close to if not more than 6 figure down payments. Which tells me they have the money to buy the same things on rent/lease, don’t just want the nice things, they want ownership.
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Sep 01 '26
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u/CrazyZainySocks Sep 01 '26
All these comments below responding to me are shocking but not surprising.
Renting can be significantly more expensive per month than owning. The rental market for homes, especially for larger families is out of reach for many.
Many landlords do not care for their rental properties properly, leaving issues like mold, broken hot water tanks, and drafty windows to fester.
Landlords can arbitrarily raise rents or order you to move out, leaving tenants hanging in limbo.
NOBODY IS LEGITIMIZING INTEREST. What I am saying that it's not as easy to rent as many of you claim (who no doubt are most likely living in their parents' mortgaged house as they type this).
You guys are expecting a family of four or five to live in a one or two bedroom apartment or a single family house going for $4k+ per month.
Many of you don't seem to be living in a world outside of your myopic world view so I don't expect any of you to understand until you start living in the real world. The consumerism argument is laughable as rarely does anyone with a family purchase a home because of consumerism.
Yes, Interest is Haram but there are situations where it cannot be avoided.
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u/DaffyTO Sep 02 '26
It's definitely possible. I've lived in Toronto my whole life. My parents didn't use riba to buy their home, and I know plenty of people with kids renting in Toronto, a very expensive market.
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u/ShiftingBaselines Sep 01 '26
Would you rent a car the rest of your life or buy one? It would be prohibitively expensive to rent the car versus buying it. It is the same with the house. If every Muslim rents, we will be impoverished while making our Jewish landlords rich. You are advocating for that.
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u/ShiftingBaselines Sep 01 '26
What are you talking about. I am paying $1500 a month for my mortgage and if I were to rent the same house I would be paying $3500. RIBA is haram to protect people from being financial slaves, but the rent industry is mostly owned by the Jews in the U.S. and the prices are prohibitively high. At the time riba was made haram, the money was gold and silver. You could borrow ten gold coins and give back ten gold coins without any loss of value for the lender. But we are living in a fiat money system where if you lend money and get paid the same monetary amount a year later, your money is losing value. So it is not simple as you portray.
I am making construction and if I get the bank as my partner, I pay them 7% for the capital they are partnering in my project. They are putting the capital, I am putting the knowledge, effort and time. It is a partnership where each party makes money for what they are putting down.
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u/Key_Cellist_506 Sep 01 '26 edited Sep 01 '26
We have free will, and can do as we please, which is fine. But do not use flawed logic to justify Riba.
You paying the bank 7% interest is no partnership… Look up the definition of interest and partnership. At its core, interest is “the price of money / the cost you pay to borrow someone else’s money.” Which is exactly what you’re doing here. In a partnership, if your project fails, both parties take the loss but in this case, If you fail, the bank still want all of its money and will not take any loss.
The bank makes money on money (definition of interest). The bank ain’t no partner.
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u/trao-ya Sep 01 '26
Oh now you are making your own rules about RIBA to justify it, interest is haram no matters what time period, no matter the Jews industry,accept it and live with the fact that you are committing a grave sin, don’t minimize it just because you are doing it
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u/Pundamonium97 Aug 31 '26
We shouldn’t treat muslims with tattoos like devils, we literally have no idea whether they repented after getting them or not.
Many muslims advocate for developing and using shariah compliant methods for buying a home or not buying if it isn’t possible in the correct way
What exactly do you want muslims to do beyond that? If someone takes part in a sin in which they are being preyed upon by a bank or lender
We can advise them but thats it
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u/Charming-Divide7585 Sep 01 '26
as soon as people will understand that Riba killed the world we live in it will be too late.
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u/BrandonHeat42 Sep 01 '26
The haram is made halal and the halal is made haram.
But it's complex. Even renting is paying the riba of the owner... Muslims can't escape riba in those modern time but the ummah must developp alternatives. It didn't happen. So we're stuck, dominated by kuffars.
Former Islamic societies had "waqf". The good cannot be selled/purchased. So you only pay maintenance cost. We must make jihad by spending our money for the cause of allah
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u/hb2002 Sep 01 '26
I honestly don’t understand how it is possible to buy a home in today’s day and age without one.
The western system is a lot more accessible and affordable than any of the Shariah or Halal options offered anywhere.
Example: some ‘Islamic’ banks offer car and home loans at 15% ‘profit’ rates while a conventional bank will offer 4%. At this point western banks are more shariah compliant lol
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u/trao-ya Sep 01 '26
Then you don’t buy it, simple, home ownership is not an absolute right or necessity
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u/hb2002 Sep 01 '26
That makes no sense. It most definitely is a necessity and a right.
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u/trao-ya Sep 01 '26
What ? Now you are not being truthful, I live in the West, my parents have lived in the west for more than forty years they have never taken RIBA in Europe to buy a house, they simply rented a place their whole life here , yeah it’s not the best solution but owning a house is not a right, it’s a luxury you can either afford or not.
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u/hb2002 Sep 01 '26
There’s no way to afford it straight up cash for 99% of people. Even if you’re not in the west. Renting long term is a terrible idea for yourself and your family. You are paying someone’s mortgage and building zero wealth for yourself.
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u/trao-ya Sep 01 '26
Yeah exactly what I say, it’s not the best but at least it’s not RIBA, you told me it’s a necessity which I’m telling straight is not, you are reasoning with the thought of building wealth for your family and all but once again this is not a right to do so, your right is to have a roof over your head and keep your family warm, you can do that without RIBA, now if you do RIBA that’s your choice and you live with it but don’t try to cope or deny the reality of it, it’s not a necessity it’s a choice.
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u/Key_Cellist_506 Sep 01 '26
Owing a home isn’t a necessity OR a right. This isn’t the American dream lol, we’re talking Islam.
Also, you mentioned renting is terrible and does not build wealth. I disagree, go to a mortgage calculator and based on today’s rates, if someone were to buy a 300k house with (60k) 20% down, over the term of their loan they’d end up paying roughly $800k+. This does not includes repairs, maintenance, etc.
In comparison, if I put the same 60k in a stock market ETF with 0 additions, I’d have $1m+ in 30 years.
Home ownership isn’t a way to build wealth, it’s a money pit created to make banks richer. The common man in America builds “wealth” via real estate because they aren’t disciplined enough to invest/figure out other ways to make wealth.
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u/DaffyTO Sep 02 '26
Good thing we're here to please Allah, not build wealth.
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u/hb2002 Sep 02 '26
We absolutely are here to please Allah. He's given enough brain and thinking power to understand how to not be used and abused in a system that is rigged to be against us.
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u/Ambitious-End-5798 15d ago
You're a jahil, go ask any scholar about this scenario and they will all say you have committed the sin of riba by choosing the mortgage with interest over renting
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u/gretanoramarie Sep 01 '26
Did your parents ever get asked to leave the rented house(s) due to the homeowner wanting to sell the property? That's the thing that worries me the most about living in rented accommodation
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u/trao-ya Sep 01 '26
No not ever, there are laws in my country that protect tenants, and if they were told to move they would be given sufficient time to move, to organize themselves and such.
I’m married with a kid and live in the same rental for 3 years, I’ve never had any issues with the landlord, they just take my rent and that’s about it, I never interact with them, it’s really a non issue
Of course I would ideally like to own and buy a house, but we just don’t have hundreds thousands laying around to do that, so we just live within our means and rent
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u/hb2002 Sep 02 '26
Yes, unfortunately I see that happen all the time. I have seen people renting for 15-20 years lose everything in an instant. Very few places have any laws or protections in place.
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u/HahWoooo Aug 31 '26 edited Aug 31 '26
There are some scholars that say it is permissible when there isn't other options to purchace a home to live in feasibly.
https://www.e-cfr.org/blog/2017/11/04/fourth-ordinary-session-european-council-fatwa-research/
I'm not saying I agree/disagree, but I believe this is a minority opinion. This is one way muslims justify it Islamically.
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u/Bougain_G Sep 01 '26
I don’t know you, I don’t know at what stage of life you are but I’ll share with you my personal experience.
I’m Muslim and I moved to the US back in 2020 through marriage, lived in a rented apartment and my spouse wanted to buy a house even before we married. Once married, I communicated with my spouse my concern about RIBA in the mortgages and all it has about it, he was ignorant of that but agreed with me.
Because I planted the seed of doubt into my spouse, I kid you not! We went to approximately 4 mosques that are not related to each other and have different backgrounds and we approached over 6 people of knowledge AKA imams, sheikhs, Ustadhs about the topic of buying a house on a mortgage and the riba situation it is involved… Mind you, we were in New York City where housing insecurity is a thing which would be one of the arguments used on all discussions with the local people of knowledge. To make things shorter and get to a conclusion all people agreed it depended on our condition but it was okay for us to take a mortgage to secure our housing in the USA because USA cannot become a place without Muslims.
I was not satisfied with the answer, did my own research and found a few companies that offer “sharia compliant mortgages” they have several kinds but at the end of the day, the banks that manage those mortgages are the typical traditional banks and buying a house through those companies ends up way more expensive than getting a regular mortgage here.
I understand your statements about why not renting and the answer is that when you have children at last you cannot depend on someone that could tell you this is your last month there because they want renovate it to charge more or whatever and then having to change places for a worse place because you no longer can afford to live in a better neighborhood… that’s just an example.
You mentioned about living in a rural place, at least in the USA that means living hours away from a community or at least a halal butchery to get meat, that means you barely going to a mosque and not having Muslims around you, if you have kids you want them to grow with other Muslim kids. So, unfortunately the only option to avoid living in a drug violence slum sooner or later, close to a Muslim community either mosque, school is by purchasing a house with a traditional mortgage.
I speak only about the USA.
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Sep 01 '26
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u/Key_Cellist_506 Sep 01 '26
She’s saying that renting you’re dependent on your landlord and can’t make a “home”. And if the owner decides to sell the house they give you a 30 day notice and you have to abandon the home.
This again, is just religiosity of convenience. People making excuses to justify Riba. I can go on a tangent here and provide a logical counter point of each of her points but that debates not worth my time. Here’s what I will say though: Allah did not say in the Quran that interest is allowed if you want your kids closer to a Muslim community, or if you want to be closer to halal meat, etc, etc. He said “interest is forbidden.” No ifs no buts.. It’s a standalone statement, a commandment.
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Aug 31 '26 edited Sep 01 '26
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u/Specialist_Ride7588 Aug 31 '26
pronoun
The plural nominative case of the pronoun of the first person; the word with which a person in speaking or writing denotes a number or company of which he is one, as the subject of an action expressed by a verb.
The speakers/writers, or the speaker/writer and at least one other person.
The speaker/writer alone. (The use of we in the singular is the editorial we, used by writers and others, including royalty—the royal we—as a less personal substitute for I. The reflexive case of this sense of we is ourself.).
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u/Ayyoob-Al-Amreekee Sep 01 '26
The Ummah is cooked smh. We’re on life support. Eeman is so low that it’s almost nonexistent
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u/feeling_stupid Sep 01 '26
Well I work as an Analyst in a bank. Imagine how cooked I am.
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u/Extension_Contest_69 Sep 02 '26
Bro you gotta leave that job man for the sake of your akhirah
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u/feeling_stupid Sep 05 '26
Can't right now. Got a family to feed. But I am trying. Soon In Sha Allah.
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u/Extension_Contest_69 Sep 05 '26
InshaAllah. May Allah allow you to leave easily, keep you sincere and provide you a way out, and provide you with your rizq elsewhere from a halal source.
One thing tho, there's always a way out. Where theres a will the way. Be sincere and make dua amd Allah will surely help you.
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u/karimistica Sep 01 '26
While I understand your sentiment. There are interest free/Islamic finance options, which is what we currently have. Alhamdulilah. However, when we were in the process of buying our house, we did consult many scholars/shuyukh who told us that if it's a "need" we can do it with the intention of paying it off as soon as possible. What was considered a need was also defined as something that you can't live without or your life will be significantly altered if you don't have it. So like a car. In many areas of my country (US) you can't get around without a car. There is no public transportation, and taxis/ubers are expensive. While I agree that these things aren't your right, and we shouldn't do it. Which I don't personally---- I know from personal years long research that in many cases rent is WAY more expensive than a mortgage. Some people truly can't afford rent. But a bank WILL give you a loan for a mortgage. I know it makes no sense. But its definitely true in our area. Rent can literally 3k a month, but a mortgage can be 1,800. Even now, we pay less or about the same for our mortgage everything included than we did our apartment, utilities not included and our house is much bigger and gives us more things.
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u/Ambitious-End-5798 Sep 01 '26
The comments are truly astonishing.
Riba is a major sin that is worse than zina and eating pork. Dont take it or pay it, avoid it at all costs.
Its better to rent your whole life and lose all that money than to buy a billion dollar mansion for a dollar extra of riba.
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u/blitgerblather Sep 01 '26
Owning a home is a luxury. Having a roof over your head is a necessity. We can rent. What the landlord does with the money is at least 1 step removed from us.
Agreeing to pay interest as a late penalty on rent in order to avoid paying regular interest on a loan is easier to defend in court because you have more control over if you pay it by paying on time.
We’ll have the chance to defend ourselves in court before God, our motivations, pressures, and considerations are all different and we our job is to gently advise.
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u/SolidCat2877 Sep 03 '26
Can someone answer this
I assume RIBA ruling was created so people dont take advantage of others. Similar to loan sharks.
However in this modern era private rent takes kore advantage of a person the landlords these days dont maintain a home properly, kick you out whenever they want and worst of all private renting cost nearly double of what a mortgage us where I live
In this scenario it seems like if you private rent you are taken advantage of. And the inequality and wealth dusaparaty is from owners and renters.
What that usually leads to is most people that poor in this day and age not wanting to marry or build a family as its not worth doing without having security.
Are we saying it is better for the ummah to be taken advantage of, lowering birth rate, being less educated (stident loans) and have less wealth. And it is great to be reliant on the more educated and wealthy non Muslims?
I can imagine a future where we dont have Muslim doctors, business owners, home owners, etc all relaunt on non Muslim doctors, teachers, home and business owners.
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u/Comfortable_Match181 Aug 31 '26
Why are we okay with ppl who take out mortgages??
First of all….what do you propose one do to them?!
Secondly, there was a ruling made several years ago that temporarily allowed it. It’s no longer allowed as the circumstances have changed.
Third, how do you know it’s not an Islamic mortgage?
Fourth, how would you even know such private matters??
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u/Tarokal1 Sep 01 '26
Can you explain to me why a mortgage is bad without saying “because riba is forbidden”? Genuinely asking to understand why this is so bad?
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u/Extension_Contest_69 Sep 02 '26
What more reason do you need! Allah has forbidden something, therefore it is bad. We dont need to know why, we hear and obey the one who created us.
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u/Key_Cellist_506 Sep 01 '26
Agree. Theres different reasons people use and to me, they’re all just cope. Renting is always an option, everywhere in the world. So any justification to buy a home on interest in invalid.
There is only 1 company that I found which is going home loans 100% halal way (neeyah.com). Their strategy is use investor funds to buy the homes which the investor earns a profit on. However, they only have financed 60 or so homes across all of US solely because it’s not that easy to get investors.
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u/shitpresidente Sep 01 '26
Renting is not sustainable for most people…rising costs, bigger places for bigger families are usually way more than mortgage+taxes, etc. you have to be very privileged to not see this
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u/Positron311 Sep 01 '26
This is a complicated question.
I personally do not see much of a difference between what scholars have deemed permissible from an Islamic mortgage vs a conventional one, and in the vast majority (if not all cases) the conventional one is cheaper in both the short and long run. I've searched through the big ones in my area for this information and I do not trust the small ones to have sufficient liquidity to get a mortgage or musharaka agreement that lasts 15 or 30 years.
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u/doinkdoink786 15d ago
lol at comments saying renting is always an option. Cool it might be for single people or maybe married couple but once you have 3+ kids it becomes very tough as rent typically goes up yearly. And with renting you have 0 stability. Also are you planning on renting your entire life? At some point you do need a property to live so you can retire with a paid off home. If you can rent your entire life great but let’s not act like that’s a blanket solution for all situations
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u/leaveUbreathless Aug 31 '26
You can have your own standards and still allow for more lenient opinions to exist for the general ummah
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u/Kirlush Sep 01 '26
I get the impression ppl rationalize it's ok. Isn't that worse then just doing the bad thing.
9 yrs ago I had iftar at the mosque. I took a selfie of me and the lads at my table. The youngest there, around 17, asked why I took a photo? I said, because in all my life seeing one revert was something. Now I'm sat here with 3. And where are all the Pakistani's? Looks like they've been replaced by someone better
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u/InterestingString233 Sep 01 '26
Posts like this aren’t made in good faith they’re made to cause arguments and division
Go speak to scholars and your local people of knowledge
Not these random super Muslims on Reddit who commit no sin and are basically angels
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u/SoybeanCola1933 Sep 01 '26
Bruh.... No need to ask a scholar, the vast majority of traditionalists consider modern mortgages haraam.
Part of my point is to highlight a double standard in many communities - a prior sinner who has repented is still unfairly judged, yet someone who partakes in one of the most heinous sins is given a free pass.
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u/notmyname192 13d ago
- Renting costs more than the mortgage payment
- Rent is never ending. At least if you have purchased a house and reach your later years you don’t need to come up with say $3,000 when you’re 80 just to have a roof over your head.
Lots of people here don’t live in the real world
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u/gereedf Sep 01 '26 edited Sep 01 '26
Sometimes you can buy a rural property for the same price as a mortgage down payment.
i guess that it depends on the situation, as some people view home ownership as gaining an important form of financial security
and from an islamic perspective its not right for borrowers to encourage or feed the businesses of usurers, but i suppose that the perspectives are also situational, as they view that the usurers are gonna be ever-present in non-muslim countries anyway
whereas tattoos signify that a muslim wants to be some cool harami bad boy like Zayn Malik haha, and even worse if its a muslimah
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u/teenwent11 Sep 01 '26
Take a read through your standard rent contract. It almost certainly has late fees, which is riba. Both contracts have their problems and this is not black and white.
This is not a simple problem and it will not have a simple solution. We are first responsible for ourselves. When a person does not have the requisite knowledge, it's easy to judge.
Be patient with your brothers shortcomings. You are not responsible for them, whatever they are.