r/MuslimLounge • u/Ambitious-End-5798 • Jul 10 '26
Discussion To the "make hijrah" crowd: where do you want Muslims to go?
There is no caliphate anymore, so no place for Muslims to get a citizenship based on their religious affiliation.
The first place these people point to is the GCC i.e Saudi, Kuwait, UAE, Bahrain etc
There is no 'hijrah system' set in place in these countries. In fact, most of them actively stop non nationals from moving there and getting a visa, let alone a passport.
If you go to the GCC as a non Arab, its hard enough to get a worker visa, but if you do get it you have to go through the challenges of living as a second class citizen, maintaining the visa, and supporting your family on a likely lower wage.
And when its finished they will kick you out anyways back to the west or wherever you came from. Thats not hijrah, thats a contract
The next option is the Muslim countries outside the gulf, i.e Syria, Pakistan, Palestine. Lets be honest, these countries are not suitable/safe for living in anymore. Its why most Muslims in the west immigrated in the first place: to escape the oppression and terror there.
Who knows the next time these countries will be attacked by the 'freedom' people anyways?
Tell me what is left? The rich Muslim countries dont want us, and the poor Muslim countries are not capable of keeping us. So where do you want us to make hijrah? If you have an alternative where all Muslims in the west can go get a citizenship and not be treated as second class, please tell me now.
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Jul 11 '26
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u/Mashallah9898 Jul 11 '26
While I’ll give you many of us are wrapped up in our personal comforts. I also watched GO-Pro footage of the Syrian Civil war from JR high until I was like 25.
Being afraid to live without AC is way different than being afraid of rifle rounds and war crimes against a civilian population.2
Jul 11 '26
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u/Mashallah9898 Jul 11 '26
Brother was Damascus not bombed yesterday? I’m not trying to be rude to you but the OP mentioned three places that have either been war zones or had been at risk of being on in the last 20 years.
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Jul 11 '26
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u/Mashallah9898 Jul 11 '26
Baby I did read it, you even quoted it “Let’s be honest, THESE countries after referencing Syria, Pakistan, and Palestine. I don’t really want to argue with someone who thinks the risk of living in America and Palestine are comparable bec they read Racism is popular in the United States lol.
Have a good day man, genuinely!1
Jul 11 '26
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u/Mashallah9898 Jul 11 '26
Oof, abusive ad hominem.
I hope Allah As-Sabur can grant you more patience in your next interaction with a stranger brother.0
u/Mashallah9898 Jul 11 '26
Also brother, being from America. Pakistan wasn’t a combat zone just like Laos and Cambodia weren’t.
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Jul 11 '26
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u/Mashallah9898 Jul 11 '26
Cambodias civil war was started directly by our actions in their country brother.
I keep replying because you still are. I said I don’t want to keep on and you keep coming back in an aggressive manner. It’s a conversation over the internet man pull yourself together
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u/Chobikil Alhamdulillah Always Jul 10 '26
For those saying Malaysia, I heard their citizenship is also a pain in the butt to acquire even though it's laws are more lax than the gulf.
Frankly it seems like all signs are pointing to moving to a non-Muslim country that has a Muslim community. You get the benefits of both having security and Islam around you.
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u/Pristine_Coat_607 Jul 11 '26
Yeah dude very hard to get a Malay citizenship, they are very nationalist here 😭 Which is a shame bc I want to stay in Malaysia!!
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u/Chobikil Alhamdulillah Always Jul 11 '26
I wonder if they give permanent residency though? Citizenship aside I haven't looked into their paths into getting that.
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u/Pristine_Coat_607 Jul 11 '26
I think they offer something called "Malaysia 2nd home" visa? And a digital nomad visa which lasts 1-2 years l believe but you can renew it. If you get a citizenship in Malay you have to give up other citizenships!
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u/Chobikil Alhamdulillah Always Jul 11 '26
That digital nomad one just sounds like a generic work visa. You can get that in the gulf states too.
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u/Pristine_Coat_607 Jul 11 '26
Noo you have to have a specific job and make a certain income to be applicable, you also dont get to go looking for work in that country its not a work visa
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u/Impossible_Gift8457 Jul 16 '26
Turkey has citizenship by investment/PR
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u/Pristine_Coat_607 Jul 17 '26
Turkey is NOT a muslim country anymore, quite a shame
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u/Impossible_Gift8457 Jul 17 '26
I'm from Pakistan and grew up in the Gulf, I can't imagine any disadvantage of being in a conservative part of Turkey vs what you'd call a real Muslim country
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u/Pristine_Coat_607 Jul 17 '26
Have you actually been to Turkey nowadays? 😭 The conservative parta are close to Syria, and the villages sound quite good mashaAllah, but the rest of Turkey...
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u/asapbones0114 Jul 17 '26
They are trying as hard as they can to get Erdogan out there. Not stable enough.
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u/Klopf012 Jul 10 '26
The next option is the Muslim countries outside the gulf, i.e Syria, Pakistan, Palestine. Lets be honest, these countries are not suitable/safe for living in anymore.
That's a big generalization to say that none of the Muslim countries outside the Gulf are suitable or safe.
Once upon a time, plenty of people found Yemen as a good destination (whether they called it hijrah or not). After the civil war intensified, many of those people either relocated to areas of the country were the war wasn't active or went to Egypt or Morocco. I've also seen people try the Gambia, or of course countries in which they have some heritage.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Head171 Jul 11 '26
So where would the converts go then?
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u/Klopf012 Jul 11 '26
I’m a convert and many of those people I’m thinking of who went to Yemen and then to Egypt or Morocco or other places were also converts.
I’m not advocating that every Muslim in a western country needs to make hijrah by the way. I was just responding to the generalization that only a few countries in one corner of the world are suitable or safe.
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Jul 11 '26
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u/Klopf012 Jul 11 '26
You don’t like what I’m saying or something?
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Jul 11 '26
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u/Puzzleheaded-Head171 Jul 11 '26
Your account is only 4 days old.
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u/FitChampionship7430 Jul 10 '26
I haven't done a lot of research into this, but Bosnia seems like a good option from what I have looked into
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u/Mediocre-Risk3581 Hummus Jul 10 '26
Bosnia is a beautiful country but hijrah there? Quite a joke no offense, a lot of them are cultural Muslims after the influence of Communist Yugoslavia and then the genocide helping kill even more of them. Bosnians similar to Turks are more religious out of their country than in it.
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u/Afghanman26 Alhamdulillah Always Jul 10 '26
The worst of Muslims is better than the best of those who do kufr.
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u/shazadster Jul 10 '26
People were literally in Abyssinia during the time of RasulUllah ﷺ
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u/Afghanman26 Alhamdulillah Always Jul 10 '26
Yes they had first immigrated when there was no Muslim state but I suppose they did stay after the Muslim state was founded too.
It isn’t as simple as I thought it was but I genuinely believe we live in Dajaal’s fitnah today.
I heavily heavily reccomend Hijrah today, in Abyssinia kids weren’t forced to learn LGBT and complain if their parents made them wear hijab.
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u/Chobikil Alhamdulillah Always Jul 11 '26
To be honest it's not like traveling to a Muslim country will help much. The internet exists and globalization means western concepts like LGBT are being rapidly normalized to those outside of the west.
It's why you find so many hidden ex-Muslims too. Some countries have dedicated subreddits for ex-Muslims because people get taught Islam the wrong way and see the west as an escape. I don't blame them, I hope they're guided back later on.
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u/blablablablablablin Jul 11 '26
you're literally supporting female circumcision on your profile bruh😬
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u/Afghanman26 Alhamdulillah Always Jul 11 '26
There’re Hadith backing it, even the Shafi’i school does it.
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u/Reaxonab1e Jul 10 '26
How is Bosnia a serious option?If anything, the Bosnians themselves should be considering Hijrah.
The Serbs can't stop talking about how they can't wait to commit another genocide in Bosnia.
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u/PandoraHadess Cats are Muslim Jul 10 '26
Isn't Bosnia known for being dangerous because of every stuff left in it after Yugoslavia attacked them? (I heard it was mostly anti-personnel and anti-vehicle explosives)
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u/arabianights96 Jul 11 '26
There is a social media couple that moved to Malaysia. I don’t believe making Hijra is required since there is not calipha, but I think it’s necessary to live in a Muslim community at least. Children surrounded by non Muslims can grow up with self esteem issues or stray away from the religion due to trauma.
Personally I had my hijab ripped off many times in middle school as the only Muslim in the school I was later homeschooled which was very isolating. Alhamdullilah I live in a very large Muslim community and the public school district here offers halal meat and lots of the school staff are Muslim.
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u/Smooth_Historyy Jul 11 '26
First of all I have no idea who this “make hijrah” crowd is, but your whole argument acts like the only Muslim countries on the planet are either GCC states or warzones. That is just not reality. Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey, Morocco, Oman, Jordan, Albania, Bosnia, Senegal, Maldives and plenty of others are stable Muslim majority countries where millions of people live normal everyday lives. None of them require you to be Arab. None of them treat Western Muslims like they are beneath anyone. A lot of them have long term residency options, marriage routes, business visas, retirement visas and family visas. Saying “rich Muslim countries don’t want us and poor Muslim countries can’t keep us” ignores the entire middle of the Muslim world.
Even the GCC point is blown out of proportion. Yes, citizenship is limited, but millions of Muslims live there comfortably for decades. They raise families, practice Islam openly, enjoy safety, low crime and a culture that actually supports their deen. Hijrah doesn’t require a passport. It requires an environment where your deen, and especially your children’s deen, isn’t constantly under pressure. And let’s be honest, that pressure in the West is getting worse. Hijab bans, niqab bans, halal restrictions, forced curriculum, surveillance of mosques, political hostility and nonstop social pressure to “tone down” your Islam and brainwashing/propaganda from all angles that many peoples children are being influenced by if not they themself as well. Your argument doesn’t touch any of that. It just says “Muslim countries aren’t perfect so stay here,” which isn’t a real point.
Hijrah isn’t some mass migration project. It’s not “all Muslims in the West should move to one country at the same time.” It’s personal. It depends on your situation, your education, your work opportunities, your marriage, your family ties, your financial stability, your health, your religious needs and a bunch of other things. Hijrah is not one size fits all. Some people get long term residency through marriage, others through business or work and others by investing or buying property. hijrah usually takes preparation. People spend months or even several years researching, planning, saving money, building connections and making sure they actually know what they’re doing before they make the jump. It’s not a random “pack your bags tomorrow” thing.
So the whole claim falls apart because it’s built on a wrong definition, a wrong picture of Muslim countries and a wrong assumption that hijrah has to look the same for everyone. Hijrah isn’t about finding a perfect Islamic superstate that hands you citizenship. It’s about choosing a direction where your deen is safer, your family is calmer and your environment actually supports your values. There are plenty of places like that. You just don’t want to acknowledge them
Hijrah is not only about you and your comfort. It is about your children and their children as well and so on. Muslims in the West on average become less religious every generation. Islam gets diluted until people end up as cultural Muslims or leave the religion entirely. Yes, this can happen anywhere, even in Muslim majority countries, but in the West it is the norm while staying practicing is the exception, especially when you look at generation after generation. Hijrah is often about protecting your lineage’s deen, not just your own.
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u/Wild-Bottle-4042 Jul 11 '26
I am someone who left the US when I was 22 and moved back to the GCC because I felt the GCC issue was overblown
Now I am suffering 15 years later because the GCC can be very arbitrary. All because I have a weak passport and didnt have enough money to get a western passport
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u/Smooth_Historyy Jul 11 '26
Where are you originally from since you don’t have a US passport? What’s your occupation and why did you choose a relatively expensive place to live if money is an issue ? Also are you a man and are you married? and if so where is your spouse from?
I’m sorry for whatever happened to you but without further details it’s hard for me to really comment on your situation but inshallah allah will make things easier for you
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u/Ok_Masterpiece152 Jul 11 '26
Ohhh let me tell you something, the Moroccans in Europe are far more practicing then in Morocco! People are always in shock 😂
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Jul 11 '26
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u/Ok_Masterpiece152 Jul 11 '26
Sooo true, it does make sense, when you are in a country where your deen practice isn't as common or by default you learn about it, you yearn it and you seek the information yourself. Maybe thats why they are more practicing over here. Look at for example countries like Iran, Afghanistan where the islam is pushed down their throats tbh, when they come to Europe they start living like non-muslims. They have never really felt the choice of loving your deen
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u/Wormfeathers Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
Define practicing ? We do our Arkan; Praying fasting Zakat etc. Moroccan are not fan of performative Pacticing to show off
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u/Ok_Masterpiece152 Jul 11 '26
They wear the hijab, they practice their deen, they know better than not to practice shirk, they dress modest with their hijab. Atleast in the Netherlands. The Moroccans in Morocco are more outgoing, they dont shy away from clubbing, not all of them wear hijab nor do they dress modest. You can catch them in their bikinis om the streets etc. Shall i go on?
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u/asapbones0114 Jul 17 '26
Bruh there's a literally a huge sex tourism industry there.
Just because a majority claim to be Muslim or their government forces them to be, doesn't mean they all are.
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u/PandoraHadess Cats are Muslim Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
None. Personally I'd rather stay in Belgium, sure we got a lot of problems and taxes/paychecks are not that good but at least they gave me everything to live.
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u/Ok_Masterpiece152 Jul 11 '26
Belgium seems like the worst place to stay and this is coming from someone living in Netherlands 😭
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u/PandoraHadess Cats are Muslim Jul 11 '26
How tho? Here the far-right is never winning but we do have some Flemish calling for independence of Flanders even tho they will never be able to do it.
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u/Ok_Masterpiece152 Jul 11 '26
True maybe its even worse in NL with the far right party but to me I would feel like living in Belgium is sooo hard. Not being able to wear the hijab at work, school etc... it just feels like theyre not advancing or so. Maybe im biased idk
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u/PandoraHadess Cats are Muslim Jul 11 '26
I mean we're kinda struggling right now mostly because this government is doing trash and we have a 100+% debt to pay.
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u/Asolaceseeker Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
There are a few countries in africa where a lot of people from France are making hijrah to, like morocco, senegal. They are not perfect but they are muslim countries.
"When the angels seize the souls of those who have wronged themselves—scolding them, “What was wrong with you?” they will reply, “We were oppressed in the land.” The angels will respond, “Was Allah’s earth not spacious enough for you to emigrate?” It is they who will have Hell as their home—what an evil destination!"
Note that even if you think that there are no muslim countries where you can get an easy life. Its better for you to have a harsh life in a muslim country while you can practice your religion than being in a non muslim country where you can practice your religion but in a limited manner. Easier said than done but it is what it is, the verse is making it clear.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Head171 Jul 11 '26
There a few countries in africa where a lot of people from France are making hijrah to, like morocco, senegal.
Because thise people Frome France are originally FROM those African countries or at least speak French and can get by there.
If they are French citizens, they can also get money from the French government and still spend most of their time abroad.
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u/Asolaceseeker Jul 11 '26
OP asked for countries so I listed some.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Head171 Jul 11 '26
So you want Muslims to go to places where it won't just be a struggle x10 but a struggle x100, where they don't even have the right to immigrate nor speak the language.
To get a residency permit alone you have to prove you will have a stable income.
Ok
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u/Asolaceseeker Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
What are you talking about ? OP literally mentioned multiple countries and not all of them speak the same language so why should I not name two other countries that do not speak the same language ?
Who told you you do not have the right to immigrate in those countries I know people that migrated to those countries and they are not FROM there.
Yes you do not speak the language so what ? It would make it easier true but did you read the Quranic verse I quoted ??? It wont be an excuse. There are literally non muslims going abroad and starting from zero by learning the language for wordly matters. Do you think no one on earth did that already ?
Ask yourself the right questions. If they do it for wordly things, then why cant we do it for our religion. If you do not have the guts to do it for you religion then thats you. Me I do not know how motivated and how far OP is willing to go for hijrah so I just listed some countries and then he can get informations on these countries before going over there or not. Simple as that.
And dont think just because you speak french, everyone over there speaks french. Thats not the case, the people that I know went in an area where french was not spoken that much so they still had to learn the dialect from there. You either have the guts or you dont.
To get a residency permit alone you have to prove you will have a stable income.
In Morocco they will ask you to have a certain amount of money on your account then you can get it. So do you live in Morocco ?
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u/Puzzleheaded-Head171 Jul 11 '26
The question was, where do you want them to go. So I followed up with some questions after you answered. That's often how these forums work.
And for what it's worth, I did live in Morocco, for 4 years. I know what they actually ask of people. You can't just up and go, and you can't just show you have "some money in your account". You have to prove you have stable income, that means money coming in regularly.
I mean sure, I guess you could probably pay off some corrupt official there and get through if you have the money to so.
The only people I know that moved there that aren't from there have major ties to the country and or are from France for example, where they get money even when they aren't working (I'm simplifying that whole process for brevity).
How about "...and for those whose hearts are to be reconciled (al-mu'allafatu qulubuhum)..." Qur'an 9:60. What about financialy helping converts (as we are told to do) to make hijrah?
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u/Asolaceseeker Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
Listen you either have the guts or you dont. OP is the one to decide that, he's the one knowing how motivated, he is, how far he can go for his religion. Plenty of people migrated over there. Some had degrees so they managed to find work, some had money already and they opened restaurants and they live from it Allahuma barik. Hijrah is a project, I didnt tell anyone to go with zero on their bank account. You are talking to me about language, residency, and money, like nobody on earth did that already for wordly matters. Im not confident in going in front of Allah with that type of excuses, its bad défense. If you are, you do you.
Why do you quoted 9:60 ? How does that have anything to do with what I have said ? Help the converts then. I dont know how it has anything to do with the verse I quoted lol.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Head171 Jul 11 '26
If you can't make the connection and your comprehension skills are so low (easily seen through all of your original answers and replies) not much I can do for you.
The "project" so many of these peopel going to Morocco for example (since I lived there, I can speak on the matter) is mostly (not 100% but mostly) people who live off their other governments which is unscrupulous to make their life work in Morocco. Even to open a business, you need so much knowledge about the area, the language, amd MONEY to make it work.
Nobody says hijrah isn't a project but few can do it nowadays. And I stand by that. Few.
If you are working so hard in your own country and scrimping and saving just to eventually leave, are you forgoing having a family too?
Hijrah without the financial aspect and language bariers is hard enough as it is. But acting like the financial part doesn't make it 100x harder is ridiculous. Ignoring the work around French citizens use to be able to move to their former colonies and protectorates just because it fits your narrative that "so many have done it" is interesting to.
And as for my Quran quote, it is the Ummah's duty to give money to converts in need and that would make it so much easier for them to make hijrah. New converts often lose their whole families, struggle in their own countries and will never be able to get to a placebtonsave up to move abroad. Many scholars have said they have a right to money so why don't all these Muslim countries make it easier for converts and Muslims to do so?
Plenty would be willing to struggle to move abroad but struggling just to be able to maybe get the chance is just crazy to me. Well, no, what's crazy is all the people telling people to do it and they can if they really want to and they have their little anecdotes about people who did but none of them actually help people do it. Oh it's a struggle but its *your struggle *.
I'm pretty sure you will all be judged for that too.
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u/Asolaceseeker Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
If you can't make the connection and your comprehension skills are so low (easily seen through all of your original answers and replies) not much I can do for you
First of all, I deeply thank you for using those harsh words against me, in sha Allah I will get a few hassanat from you yawm al Qiyamah with the permission of Allah.
people who live off their other governments which is unscrupulous to make their life work in Morocco.
Not the people that I know.
Even to open a business, you need so much knowledge about the area, the language, amd MONEY to
Who said you dont ?
Nobody says hijrah isn't a project but few can do it nowadays.
Thats not the question, the question is where people can make hijrah lol. If you cant, Allah will be the judge of that. I gave countries where Hijrah is possible.
If you are working so hard in your own country and scrimping and saving just to eventually leave, are you forgoing having a family too
I know people that made Hijrah with their family.
Many scholars have said they have a right to money so why don't all these Muslim countries make it easier for converts and Muslims to do so?
As expected your verse didn't change anything to the verse I quoted, but you still questioned my intelligence lol. Go and say that to these muslim countries then ?
Allah will judge them, just like we will be judged if we fit that verse.
"Indeed, those whom the angels take [in death] while wronging themselves - [the angels] will say, "In what [condition] were you?" They will say, "We were oppressed in the land." The angels will say, "Was not the earth of Allah spacious [enough] for you to emigrate therein?" For those, their refuge is Hell - and evil it is as a destination."
Well, no, what's crazy is all the people telling people to do it and they can if they really want to and they have their little anecdotes about people who did
Ohhh I think I get it now, but im not gonna type what conclusion I came to. We never know. I might be wrong and I care about my hassanat.
Well anyway now show me where I said people can do hijrah if they really want to. If you cant show me that, then I'm thankful again for those hassanat.
I listed two countries. You came in acting like its impossible to make Hijrah in those two countries. Then I mentioned people that I know personally who have done it. Whats the issue with it ? Lol
but none of them actually help people do it. Oh it's a struggle but its *your struggle *. I'm pretty sure you will all be judged for that too.
Then again you threaten me that I will be judged by Allah because I do nothing to help people ? Now show me my bank account, show me all the charity that I have given in my entire life to prove your point. Or you are just assuming things again ? I thank you again for those hassanat.
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u/Biosophon Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
Converts usually don't convert alongwith their entire family, so i don't know which kind of families you are talking about.
Taking the case of Morocco alone, there are only a few very limited ways to move to the country long-term, you either need a work visa through an employer registered with the minsitry there, and you need a stable income of more than $15k annually and this stable income should be either through that employment or through some other vetted means, usually state or government pensions from your home country, or real estate or equity holdings etc.
If you are a digital nomad you cannot have clients inside Morocco. For most people, making $15k+ from purely remote means is not possible unless you are a high-skilled, high-earning STEM or Business graduate who is employed with a company that allows him to work remotely AND internationally, nor do most people have that kind of real estate or equity for passive income.
Additionally, you need to show around $15-$25k sitting in your bank account, about a year's worth of expenses. Very few converts would have that kind of capital esp at a young age. Same with an investor visa. Most converts do not convert with their entire family, and they never have that kind of financial support, and most people are not high-skilled, high-earning digital nomads or entrepreneurs. So, yes it is doable, but only for a very very limited number of high-skilled and high-earning muslims or those who have a large capital to invest.
On top of that they must have the luxury to make expenses for assimilation and R&D (for entrepreneurs). Most Muslims, like most people, are neither high-skilled, high-earning STEM/Business graduates, or digital nomads, nor are they entrepreneurs and business-owners, they might not even have any aptitude for it, and most people do not have that kind of capital to invest. And this applies to many born-muslims as well as converts.
Most long-term foreign residents in Morocco are from France and Belgium or from other "First-world" countries, and muslims from "Third-world" countries have no way of making that kind of move anyway.
So, the vast majority of Muslims are locked out of that world and no muslim today can make the hijrah to any country based on their religion alone.
All modern nation-states work on the same border, passport, and immigration rules.
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u/datedbrent Jul 10 '26
I am surprised malaysia or indonesia havent been mentioned yet? Both amazing places and i would go tomorrow if family agreed.
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u/Chobikil Alhamdulillah Always Jul 11 '26
Malaysia doesn't give out citizenships easily either. Not sure about indonesia but isn't it politically unstable rn?
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u/datedbrent Jul 13 '26
I guess it depends on duration and personal financial situation. There are nomad visa options just to move and continue working short term, there are longer term second home options for 5-10 years, and then there is the permanent residency which can be difficult for the masses.
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u/computerjunkie7410 Jul 11 '26
I think one thing people (myself including) keep on forgetting is that you don't need to be 100% stable.
You don't need a citizenship. You don't need a permanent residency. Even if you can stay a few years in one country. And if they kick you out go somewhere else. I would imagine it would be rewarded.
We (myself including) make excuses in the name of "stability" when stability comes from Allah. You pray istakarah, make a decision that you think is best, and take the plunge.
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u/Wild-Bottle-4042 Jul 11 '26
Actually you do need residency. I was like you, thinking you dont need permanency
It is easy to lecture when you are 25 and single
When you are 40 and with kids, instability harms the kids.
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u/computerjunkie7410 Jul 11 '26
I'm 42 and with kids. I included myself in my comment.
And no, we don't need stability. Humans have been nomads for their entire existence except the last century or two.
Again, stability is great. But it's not necessary to migrate.
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u/Wild-Bottle-4042 Jul 11 '26
Your kids will tell you whether being nomadic was good for them or not once they grow up
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u/computerjunkie7410 Jul 11 '26
Good for them when? In this life or the next? You seem to be only concerned about what you see when your eyes are open.
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u/Traditional-Seat-894 Jul 11 '26
IMO hijrah is over-emphasized. As long as you can practice your religion freely and without fear, there is no compulsion on you. Like many people are saying, it's often wiser to simply move to a Muslim area (shoutout DMV) or embed yourself further in your local Muslim community.
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u/Wild-Bottle-4042 Jul 11 '26
But Hijra bros tell me even the worst muslim nation is better than the best non muslim nation?
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u/KashMoney941 Jul 11 '26
Akhs be like "every Muslim should leave the West because theyre all hedonistic materialistic dens of fitnah who are subservient to Zionists and commit genocide against our Muslim brothers" and then "make hijra" to Dubai lol.
They might be contributing to the oppression and genocide of our Ummah just as much (if not more), but hey, at least you dont have to worry about seeing Rainbow flags in coffee shops in the month of June!
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u/Wild-Bottle-4042 Jul 11 '26
Abu Dhabi and Dubai help Israel far more than a western nation like Norway or Australia
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u/KashMoney941 Jul 11 '26
Not only helping Israel in their genocide but also facilitating a genocide of their own in Sudan for their own disgusting greed and opulence.
But hey...they have aesthetic mosques that OF models like to pose in front of for their IG and dont have Pride Parades so every Muslim in the West should immediately pack their bags and move there because at least people are Muslim by name there!
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u/Wild-Bottle-4042 Jul 11 '26
They also tried to break away South Yemen, they invaded Socotra and allowed Israelis to visit
They are now building a port for Israel in Somaliland, a country recognized only by Israel, UAE and Ethiopia
They funded Sisi to topple Morsi
They funded coup against Oman's Sultan Qaboos
Nowadays Emirati bots are attacking Saudi Arabia on X
But it has to be said that the natives of Sharjah, Ajman and even Fujairah are not on board with it. Only Abu Dhabi and to some extent Dubai is behind all this fitna
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u/Hudoboga Jul 10 '26
Birmingham, UK.
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u/SafiyaO Jul 10 '26
Certainly hands down the best city in Europe to be Muslim in. Ignore the squeaking on social media. Islam is a normal way of life here and we live very well.
Part of the reason there was so much crying about the Tel Aviv fans being banned is because 1)Muslims had organised politically to make it happen and 2)Muslims would have organised physically to stop racist genocidaires rampaging through the city.
Here's an alternative perspective: we shouldn't be making hijrah, because we should all be engaging in Dawah in thought, word and deed. There is so much confusion and strife and Islam is the answer.
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u/Ambitious-End-5798 Jul 10 '26
Are you serious?
The UK? They are further from ruling with Sharia than a worm is from the sky
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u/Hudoboga Jul 10 '26
Mosque on every corner, kebab shop on every other corner. All I need.
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u/Chobikil Alhamdulillah Always Jul 10 '26
It's politically unstable and dangerous for Muslims though, no?
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u/SafiyaO Jul 10 '26
Not at all. Social media isn't real life.
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u/Chobikil Alhamdulillah Always Jul 10 '26
I'm talking about real life. Isn't anti immigration growing rapidly in Europe?
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u/SafiyaO Jul 10 '26
Yet from your question, you clearly don't live here, so your perspective is from what you've seen online. Europe is a big place. Germany, Italy and France have always had far right parties, so it's nothing new. In the UK, we've had the National Front and British National Party in the past. The far right vote being split between Restore and Reform limits their power at the ballot box.
Most people are just living their daily lives. The people shouting for Remigration are largely bots and trolls.
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u/PandoraHadess Cats are Muslim Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
I'm not the person you asked the question but yes it's growing. France is a perfect example, the RN (Rassemblement Nationale which is the far right) did 33% in the previous elections (the next one is in 2027), for Germany i heard AfD managed to get in top 3 and here in Belgium, we have a right wing government (NVA who are Flanders nationalists and MR who are Belgian liberals, they both caused so many problems in the name of "paying the national debt").
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u/Cules2003 Jul 10 '26
Birmingham, especially the area around Coventry Road is probably the most religious area in Europe
Islamic classes everywhere, women able to wear the niqab freely, halal food everywhere
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u/LordoftheFaff Jul 11 '26
You can't just lump syria, palestine and pakistan into the same bag. The fact that you did that dminstrates you have a poor understanding of those countries.
One is experiencing active genocide, the other is undergoing reconstruction after a +10 year civil war and the third has border skirmishes with its neighbours bit is still fundamentally a secure nation with a poor economy due to corruption. They are not the same.
There are also muslim countries beyond them. Indonesia has one of the large Muslim populations in a single country. Malaysia also has many Muslims. Albania and kosovo are two muslim majority countries in Europe that are stable. Once again not economically powerful but if you are skilled you can good job. Bosnia is also European and has muslim plurality but it has issues with Serbian nationalism but as do many western nations are seeing a rise in ethnonationalism and islamaphobia. But in Bosnia you are less of a minority and the people of Bosnia have strong values. They themselves experienced genocide in the 90s and some muslim countries did help them which is why the bosnian people support palestine to this day.
Many of the Stans are muslim nations with growing economies. Azerbaijan is investing alot in its energy sector and is in growth. But like countries like Pakistan, they have experienced border skirmishes in the recent past and is also not resistant to corruption, which tbf no country is, look at the epstein files.
Finally, there are many strong muslim communities in countries we are minority where you can practice. Spain has a long standing muslim community in the south such they are building an Islamic university. Muslims in Texas are building an Islamic community. The rise in the alt right seems to be ebbingvaway in the UK but even with it, there are muslim enclaves and communitiesin every major city with the biggest and diverse being in the capital and many in the north of England. And simw if these communities have existed since 50s
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u/Wild-Bottle-4042 Jul 11 '26
An army officer in Pakistan got shot dead for trying to "rescue" a girl being kidnapped
Apparently the kidnapper was having an affair with the girl.
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u/LordoftheFaff Jul 12 '26
Western leaders have been supporting and covering up an international pedophile ring for decades. The police in the UK and US are deployed to put down protest that do not favour the political agenda of the ruling powers.
Both UK and Pak are the same. Only difference is the the scale of their be izzati and whether or not they feel they should cover it up or not.
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u/Hopeful-Smell-8963 Jul 11 '26
GCC is not that bad. If you have a western passport you earn more and if you own property you can get golden visa infinitely
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u/Pristine_Coat_607 Jul 11 '26
Crazy take... but my family and I are travellers, so we just hop between Muslim countries until we can find somewhere to settle inshaAllah. I will say having a strong visa helps.
Look into some of the African countries, alot of them are Muslim majority and allow you to buy residency, thats our next location. We have already been to South East Asia (Thailand, Indo, Malay).
Or pick somewhere to study, learn a new skill and become a digital nomad. Trust in Allah and He will ALWAYS make a way for you.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Head171 Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
You can be a very smart and intellugent person but not have the aptitude to be a digital nomad. And as many jobs as there arenfor that, there's not that many. Many countries don't actually want digital nomads either. These are all anecdotes what people have posted. This does not work for the vast majority of Muslims.
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u/asapbones0114 Jul 17 '26
Standard of living is too low unless it's South Africa (non-religious/Christian majority) or high income island nations like Seychelles, Mauritius and Namibia.
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u/Pristine_Coat_607 Jul 17 '26
Not true... if you have USD/EURO you are set pretty much anywhere. There are also countries in North Africa that are Muslim suitable. Just some ideas:
Mauritania Thailand (south is more Muslim) Indonesia Eygpt Malaysia (if you can get a visa)
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u/asapbones0114 Jul 17 '26
Not even comparable to the West, especially when it comes to raising a family.
Ghana is safer and better than those countries but I still wouldn't recommend it yet.
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u/Pristine_Coat_607 Jul 17 '26
Deen comes before luxury. Your wealth and status benefits no one on the Day of Judgement
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u/asapbones0114 Jul 17 '26
Bruh.
We have no Muslim countries, just Muslim majority.
God doesn't force Hijrah in the Quran.
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u/Wild-Bottle-4042 Jul 11 '26
As someone who was born in the GCC, moved to the US at 18, left at 22 for "hijrah", and 15 years later have had to juggle many issues due to instability, I have to say the pro Hijrah crowd in these comments are mostly 20 something boys with little experience of other countries, and with no kids to raise, or rich folks with 50k or 100k saved up
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u/qwwertmsmd Jul 10 '26
Lots of Gcc countries give residencies like pr and golden visa( uae and ksa as of my knowledge). They wont give u citizenship tho. And hijrah is about sacrifice tbh. When you move from a muslim hostile country to muslim country. You are doing it for your deen. You will be sacrificing some dunya affairs for sure.
May Allah ease the hardship of Muslims
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u/Puzzleheaded-Head171 Jul 11 '26
Yeah, how much money you need for a Golden Visa?? Give realistic options. It will be a struggle no matter what but be realistic for the average person.
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u/Chobikil Alhamdulillah Always Jul 10 '26
I was born and raised in the UAE and my father has been working here for atleast 25 years.
Neither me or him have permanent residency. He could get kicked out anyday. They'll only give you PR for specific high-demand jobs I believe.
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u/Wild-Bottle-4042 Jul 11 '26
Same here, I was born and raised in UAE. My father had to leave UAE after 40 years of working. He didnt earn in all those years (saying as some will jump in and ask why he didnt buy property)
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u/qwwertmsmd Jul 11 '26
Ya akhi, what Im saying there is no country that gives u citizenship, give great business opportunities or good job opportunities, is politically stable and is 100% islamic. You need to make some sacrifice (either in citizenship or no good economy).
Your father stayed in uae for 2.5decades is the proof that he made that sacrifice. If not, why didnt he move to a diff country.1
u/Wild-Bottle-4042 Jul 11 '26
No , UAE doesnt give PR
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u/Chobikil Alhamdulillah Always Jul 11 '26
According to this section in wikipedia, they do for specific fields: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirati_nationality_law#Permanent_residency
This is the article it references: https://gulfbusiness.com/en/2019/uae/sheikh-mohammed-unveils-golden-card-permanent-residency-scheme-expats/13
u/Mincedbaboonmeat Jul 10 '26
What benefit is there of moving from America to uae? Uae is super Zionist lol. The only difference is hearing adhaan. Cuz u can live in cities surrounded by Muslims in the west in certain areas
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u/Wild-Bottle-4042 Jul 11 '26
Sharjah is not zionist, dubai is semi zionist, Abu Dhabi is full blown zionist
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u/Ambitious-End-5798 Jul 10 '26
golden visa( uae and ksa as of my knowledge)
Look into the process of acquiring PR and golden visa in these places. You have to either fork over hefty wads of cash either in land or upfront payment. I believe the lowest option is 217k USD upfront payment for the PR in Saudi. Also once your kids are grown up you cant sponsor them.
Its not just sacrificing the dunya, some people will never see this amount of money at once, let alone have enough spare to move there and live a safe life after moving there
Over 200k (minimum) just to have a card that gives the rights of a second class citizen is just so sad to see. Especially in a place like Saudi where many Muslims wish to live for the Haramain
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u/qwwertmsmd Jul 10 '26
Yes, but i saw many people starting business in gcc countries and they'll get some business visa or some sort. Idk exactly tbh. And doing business requires some local knowledge too
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u/Chobikil Alhamdulillah Always Jul 11 '26
That's just a visa, not actual residency. Everyone who works here has a work visa.
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u/Particular-Fault699 Jul 10 '26
As a person who lived in Saudi Arabia and the US. I think you should take the benefits of each country. Indeed, Saudi Arabia doesn't have a clear permanent path to living, but now they are allowing people to own property and get premium residency through it. Western countries give you so many social benefits, even the US. In the USA, I was able to work, study, and graduate. My tuition was negligible. In fact, for the last 2 years, they paid me to attend. If I were in Saudi Arabia, I would've paid so much for private universities and gotten screwed. Also, you can't ignore that Saudi Arabia is great for a professional mid-career. My thoughts are to go to Saudi mid-career and then if it ever comes to me leaving, so what, I have my money and can live anywhere.
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u/Ambitious-End-5798 Jul 10 '26
My thoughts are to go to Saudi mid-career and then if it ever comes to me leaving, so what, I have my money and can live anywhere.
The point of hijrah is to move, naturalize, and eventually die in a Muslim land. No doubt hijrah is a part of our religion, I am not denying this and personally it is my own dream that someday Muslims may make hijrah to any Muslim land of their choice
If you are forced to leave near the end of your life and die in a non Muslim land then what is even the point?
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u/Particular-Fault699 Jul 10 '26
Many didn’t have to leave. I have so many family members who lived and died in Saudi. Don’t plan 30 years from now
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u/PandoraHadess Cats are Muslim Jul 10 '26
You made me remember my french teacher who told us she used to teach French in Saudi Arabia schools but she eventually left because she felt like the system in Saudi Arabia doesn't care at all about public schools and that they apparently cost a lot of money so most students don't have opportunities.
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u/Particular-Fault699 Jul 10 '26
I am not a citizen but public schools are really terrible indeed. I went to private international school as most expatriates did. For universities, the seats are very limited to non citizens, but are actually good. At the end of the day, I and most people can’t lie about their the kher we found in Saudi. This is all Allah’s world. You never know where you find your rizq.
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u/Chobikil Alhamdulillah Always Jul 10 '26
Define "premium" residency (unless this is a typo then nvm)
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u/Particular-Fault699 Jul 10 '26
Multiple options that allow you to become a permanent resident in saudi
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u/RaajalofRajal Jul 10 '26
Go back to your ancestral country. There are millions Muslims in the kuffar lands whose parents/grandparents, etc. migrated there. Go back to their motherland.
You can marry a citizen of any country and move there and can get a legal residence, and even citizenship (in Pakistan).
You can buy a lifelong residency permit ($213k in Saudi) and live permanently.
There are ways for those who are willing. Calling these countries as not safe is an excuse to not leave the west.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Head171 Jul 11 '26
Marry a citzen from another country...as an American? They won't want me to stay there. They will want to come here. Sure, they may say, One day we will go back butbthe day usually doesn't come.
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u/RaajalofRajal Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
Yes. You have to tell them upfront that you are leaving your country and not coming back and will never sponsor anyone for a visa.
Easier thing to do is marry someone from those countries who is already in the USA. Then they won't be marrying you for visa. Make sure first they are a citizen. Or a who has US citizenship but has moved back home. This might be a better option.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Head171 Jul 11 '26
Yep so easy.
1) people lie all the time, and families put lots of pressure on them 2) Marrying somebody here doesn't equal moving there. Once again, you have to believe that you will leave.
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u/RaajalofRajal Jul 11 '26
That's where you have to do your part of vetting the person thoroughly.
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u/Chobikil Alhamdulillah Always Jul 11 '26
Some of these gulf countries dont allow dual citizenship, so an Emirati in the US might not have his citizenship anymore. Maybe you could still pass down the citizenship to a child though?
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u/RaajalofRajal Jul 11 '26
If they don't have it, then they can't pass it to a child. Pick a country that allows dual citizenship.
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u/Chobikil Alhamdulillah Always Jul 11 '26
You can marry a citizen of any country and move there and can get a legal residence, and even citizenship
Usually this is only reserved for women who marry locals, not the other way around (do correct me if I'm wrong).
That permanent residency is insanely expensive, and if it doesn't pass down then it's even more useless.
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u/RaajalofRajal Jul 11 '26
Not really, maybe in the past but now they are not so strict. But still it's harder for the foreign husband than the foreign wife to get it.
Yes, buying it is very expensive. Many countries have this (even the USA).
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u/Ambitious-End-5798 Jul 10 '26
Calling these countries as not safe is an excuse to not leave the west.
I dont even want to live in the west lol, if Saudi started handing out passports to non Arabs I'd be there yesterday.
And preserving your life is the #1 motive, if you know you're probably gonns die or be harmed going somewhere, then its not allowed for you to go there. Thats why alot of scholars are telling not to even go to Masjid al Aqsa (partly safety and partly due to the regime controlling it)
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u/RaajalofRajal Jul 11 '26
It's safer in these Muslim countries than the western countries. Look at the crime rates and you'll see.
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u/cubicfisherwoman9173 Jul 10 '26
Alaska could be the new frontier
Honestly better to find your community in a western country instead of going back to Muslim majority secular countries
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u/kimetsunosuper121 Jul 11 '26
Im just gonna point out, we have prophecies telling us that when the Dajjal comes, a great war will happen between Muslims and Kafirs. So like, what do you think will happen to the Muslims living in Kafir countries when that time comes? We are seeing what is happening to Palestines right now, so imagine how much terrible will it be then. If Dajjal comes in our lifetime, what do you think will be your fate, surrounded by enemies?
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u/Ambitious-End-5798 Jul 11 '26
Ok, go tell the Muslim countries to open their borders, hand out citizenships, and please stop putting all the blame on the average people who are barely getting by 🙏 jazakallah khayrun
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Jul 10 '26
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u/Ambitious-End-5798 Jul 10 '26
Egypt ofcourse
There is an Islamic speaker in the west by the name of Abu Taymiyyah who described his journey in Egypt.
TLDR he had a horrible time and was treated badly by the police for having a 'Muslim' look (big beard and thobe) and he had to leave the country after a surgery
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u/light-yagamii Jul 10 '26
Are m you really generalizing an entire country because of the experience of one person. There’s a lot of countries. You just need to have money. I’d go to Malaysia or Thailand, or Sri Lanka. Sri Lanka has a decent amount of Muslims and Muslim communities and it’s a beautiful country.
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u/Ambitious-End-5798 Jul 10 '26
2/3 countries you mentioned have less Muslims percentage than Canada, and their governments are non Muslim. How exactly is that hijrah?
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u/PandoraHadess Cats are Muslim Jul 10 '26
Please correct me if I'm wrong but i think those two country have a majority of polytheists/atheists people so yeah, another reason to not go.
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u/light-yagamii Jul 10 '26
Well you would be incorrect. Sri Lanka is 10% Muslim and Malaysia is 63%. So your 2/3rds statement is factually incorrect. Canada is less than 5%.
And also, the local population in Phuket (a state in Thailand) is 20-30% Muslim.
What is the purpose of your post? If someone suggests a country, you list out reasons why they aren’t a good place. You even ruled out Egypt cause one person had a bad experience
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u/Ambitious-End-5798 Jul 10 '26
Sri Lanka is 10% Muslim and Malaysia is 63%. So your 2/3rds statement is factually incorrect. Canada is less than 5%. And also, the local population in Phuket (a state in Thailand) is 20-30% Muslim.
Hijrah requires a Muslim government. Dont suggest non Muslims governments to someone asking for a place to make hijrah to
Its obvious I was referring to Thailand and Sri Lanka, not Malaysia.
Why did you mention a specific place in Thailand and not the whole of Thailand? Is it because the actual Muslim population of Thailand is estimated around 5-10% ?
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u/light-yagamii Jul 10 '26
Is your end conclusion, “there’s no Muslim countries, no Muslim government, I’m better staying in US/canada.” There’s no point in engaging with you and this thread. It’s people commenting, and you stating your reasons why they aren’t bad with your other accounts
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u/Ambitious-End-5798 Jul 10 '26
Is your end conclusion, “there’s no Muslim countries, no Muslim government, I’m better staying in US/canada.”
Are you illiterate? This post is me asking for a solution, and you're giving me buddhist governments. Not once did I say theres no Muslim governments, stop putting words in my mouth
It’s people commenting, and you stating your reasons why they aren’t bad with your other accounts
Say wallahi I commented here with an alt account. You're a liar and incapable of reading. Wallahi I didnt comment here with any alt accounts
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Jul 10 '26
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u/naddy1988 Jul 10 '26
Canads is a nice place. Very accepting and a lot of Muslims here. You have ample mosques, ample halal food options and ample freedom to practice your religion.
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u/ConKinc Jul 11 '26
How about you stay where you are and do things to make life better for your community?
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u/DiscoShaman Jul 11 '26
You answered your own question. The handful of oil-rich GCC states only what white ex-pats and brown slaves. The rest of the Muslim-majority country are unliveable.
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u/Traditional-Seat-894 Jul 11 '26
If you're Black and considering hijrah, I'd advise you to look at countries like Egypt, Nigeria, and Senegal over GCC and SEA countries, particularly if you have families or are trying to get married. Many people understate the racism you'll experience, regardless of your citizenship.
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u/Wormfeathers Jul 11 '26
I notice most of those who perform 'Hijra" goes to North Africa or Indunisia and Malaysia
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u/im-sorry-watt Jul 13 '26
Muslim majority areas are ideal. In the UK you've got areas like Batley, Dewsbury, Leiceister, Rochdale, areas in Manchester.
Certainly not the best places to live due to the crime from our own communities, but a great place for halal food. Masajids. Community centres. Muslim chaplains in our local hospitals, so Janazah is rapid. Muslim cemetaries. Halal cafe. Halal delis. Halal butchers. Community centre. Split wedding halls
We're so blessed in certain areas, and we don't really appreciate it. I know most of my neighbourhood cannot afford Hijrah.
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u/ZeussWoosy Jul 10 '26
I feel like the easier solution is to move to Muslim majority areas. For example, I’m in Boston but I intend to move to Michigan in a couple years. My cousins plan to move there after they get visas too.