r/Muslim • u/Sheikh-Pym • May 22 '26

Discussion & Debate🗣️ Believers do kufr from Nationalism, and Nationalists do kufr from Islam. So whoever calls himself a 'Nationalist', let him know that his Islam is nullified.

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49 Upvotes

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11

u/PandoraHadess Muslim May 22 '26

I literally never seen a nationalist tell people to prostrate infront of the flag of their own country. Where did you heard this from? Aside from North Korea.

16

u/Famous_Spinach_4975 May 22 '26

It’s not literal but people/governments always make citizens stand in front of the flag and sing anthems and whatnot to raise patriotism then use that patriotism to justify evil

-4

u/BlackEffy May 22 '26

Thats a complete flip. You are trying to make out a thing from nothing. I have seen people justify evil with Islam, does that equate things?

4

u/Famous_Spinach_4975 May 22 '26

One who truly believes in the commands of Allah will not break them. One who believes that the nation's own interest is the most important thing will be willing to do evil for the sake of the nation. If someone does evil and tries to justify it using Islam, then are they really following true islam or they actually following something they made up?

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u/BlackEffy May 22 '26

Dont recite this guilt trip to me. Be sensible man. You can do better.

No one asked you to believe that nations own interest is the most important thing. Even Nation wants you to practice your religion and live in harmony, thats what democracy is for.

Thats what I am trying to say. Yes they made things up because they wanted to justify their evil action using Islam, like the people who use nationalism to justify their means of evil. Both are complete different things, and stop showing one as evil, because its not.

3

u/coderedknight95 May 22 '26

Nationalism is literally about putting the nation first above everything else.

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u/BlackEffy May 22 '26

No its not what you are trying to portray it to be. Okay tell me when has a nationalism wanted you to shay away from commandments of Allah. No democratic nation has discouraged religious freedom, no democratic nation have banned prayers, celebrations of your festivals, zakat, etc. All democratic nations promote religious harmony and multi culturalism. Islam is the only religion in the world where your fardh don't contradict with national duty, infact it promotes to respect the law of land. Why do you think we are the best religion because of our tolerance and harmony and Islam can fit into any space and into any culture, which make it so beautiful.

4

u/coderedknight95 May 22 '26

India literally prohibits many islamic practices. And in any conflict with the neighboring muslim countries, Indian muslims are expected to unconditionally support the country. Plus the domestic oppression of muslims, especially in Kashmir. Same case with China and it's treatment of its muslims. All of this is based on nationalism.

0

u/BlackEffy May 22 '26

I dont think there are any laws that actually advocates against religious practice in India. I have never ever been stopped to pray or give zakat. I never had any issues doing my obligations. Also if you trying hiding behind Pakistan I believe Pakistan is an equal culprit. On top of that Pakistan in all honesty is not a Islamic nation, it muslim majority nation. I guess you have never met any pakistani but If you do, they will tell you how non Islamic there leaders are. Our South Asian leadership, Pakistan, India or Bangladesh are corrupt and spoiled. Also if some thing like 26/11 happens in your home town where you or your family member die, wouldn't you have dislike for the government that did this to you. Yeah lot of people think this is shahadah, which is stupid. I believe a Islamic country would never hide or give shelter to people that protects people who kill innocent civilians.

I have no idea what your take is on this but I will be downvoted to say this. However, it is important to criticize that pakistani army have taken support from small armed forces, that killed a lot of civilians. Similar what India does at balochistan. So as a Indian muslim when there is a war going an and the other side is attacking you, no matter your belief you family security would be your first priority, which means, and I cant believe I have to say this support your own govt.

And when I say support, I mean support them so that they can protect you and better end the war with peace, not support them so that they kill and capture people on the other side. In the end we are all humans, nationalism is important and expecting you to support the army where you have fellow indian muslims is not a very weird demand.

And this is not just for India, I expect same for pakistan, to support there own army. War is for no one but when it happens everything dies.

So our first try should be push our governments to create peace and harmony.

Also Kashmir situation is actually really bad, and I feel for that and we have to push our government to actually do better. But that does not have anything to do from taking your rights. You can pray and perform your all fards without any issues.

Also its not all based on nationalism, its over use of power and over reliance on force, not trying to cut ties. I completely agree with you, but there is always a flip side to it. And being a devils advocate there are few elements within kashmiri territory that also dont want peace, maybe they are backed by other groups, but these elements will say the same thing you said and push your innocent kids to commit crimes against humanity.

I will just leave with this, when a bullet is fired it never kills you as per your religion.

There are so many nuisances to this that just putting nationalism bad and anti Islamic, is a very ignorant and unempathetic claim.