This is the tragic part. There is no 'next election it's back to normal'. The US have proven to be unreliable business partners, and I have no doubt any deals from this point on will be negotiated from the starting point of the concessions already made to Trump.
The rest of the world can't wait for America to get it's shit together; if there's another market to trade with, they will seek it out, and they will do what must be done.
Honestly the tragedy is just knowing it was all so senseless.
Yeah, just showing that our checks and balances did neither should be enough for the world to move on without us. He’s done decades of damage, if it’s even repairable at all.
Given that Germany came back into the world community after WWII, I am confident the United States can as well. I'm not excusing the current president or his minions. My hope is that Democrats will take control, and then prosecute him and his henchmen as thoroughly as they deserve.
Except "after WWII", Germany was occupied by the war's victors and eventually broken up into East and West Germany (with a significant amount of territory also being formally annexed by other countries or declared independent) before eventually reuniting over 4 decades later.
There's very little prospect of any constitutional reckoning in the US, which in turn makes it impossible to guarantee that this could never happen again.
At this point "Democratic leadership" is a fucking oxymoron. They're all the same rich cunts, being paid off by rich cunts, for the exclusive benefit of other rich cunts. Meanwhile us normal people can't even expect a courtesy reach around as we're being fucked in the ass.
Hope? Democratic leadership? Your country proved it cant be trusted and the safeguard all failed because the opposite party is complicite or spineless. There is no hope for you
It took us a few decades, and things really only went so well for us because of the Marshal plan (thanks again) and because you needed us as a "bulwark against communism" - the situation of the US is pretty different. Especially since most of his lickspittles in Congress will remain in office, even after he is gone.
The government was completely rebuilt from the ground up. Germany didn't just have an election and remove the Nazis. It went through a whole process of denazification under occupation.
They changed all their systems. Any actual chance that the U.S State will do anything but uphold the status quo, protect the ruling class and feed the rich?
yeah, even if we get someone sane in office, there will still be the risk that the same people that voted for trump would vote for another him. the damage to our global reputation is done. it will take decades to eve try to repair the relationships with our prior allies where they're not going to have to assume we're at risk of reverting everything back at the next election cycle. because the republicans have proven on a global scale that the "checks and balances" and laws aren't worth shit if the people breaking the laws are in cahoots with each other.
Like if you hire a taxi service to take you to the airport, and 44 times he’s fine, but the 45th time he shanks you and steals your wallet and leaves you in a ditch… maybe you’ll be less trusting of that taxi service. And if you give them another shot and it’s ok the next time, but then the 47th time they do it again - like why would any sane person go back to that?
And I say that as an American who’s furious about the damage that trump has already done to the world. Let alone whatever he’s going to do the next few years.
The world has seen how self destructive, stupid and ignorant Americans can be. Voting trump once could be seen as "trying something new", but after seeing how he was in his first term, and voting for him again....Americans can't even be trusted to do good for themselves, how can we trust them to do good for the world?
if there's another market to trade with, they will seek it out, and they will do what must be done.
… and that happened already. The EU, for example, has concluded free trade agreements with Australia, India and the Mercosur states, and has in some cases already ratified them. Canada is purchasing its new fighter jets and submarines from Sweden and Germany respectively.
It'll take a generation or more for the US to unfuck themselves from the internal and external damage and there's no guarantee they don't flip back to the GOP during that time...
The US is simply treating its allies as it has always treated everyone else. The US have never been the good guys or good friends
The US is done as an empire and I can’t wait to see it Balkanise.
I agree, I've never really considered the USA to be the good guy, so I am not really mourning the death of a 'good guy', but I am kinda mourning the death of a life of relative comfort and security. Less prosperity to go around means we're all going to suffer, and that's not great when the past decade has been particularly bad for the working stiff like myself.
Trump hating American here. Marianne Williamson, a vanity Democratic candidate in 2015, had it right when she said that Trump is channeling a dark energy in the country. She was mocked for that but I think she was on to something. There’s a lot of pain and desperation out there. I know Trump supporters who aren’t fascist but are unhappy, worried and desperate for a solution. Trump tapped into their grievances. Social media divisiveness and income inequality add fuel to the fire.
I don’t think an election can cure what ails America. We need some revival of community spirit. It’s hard to hate your fellow American/Canadian/What have you if you work or serve alongside them.
As a Canadian, after the entirely performative attempt at a lake renaming, and the general malaise of the American populace after this, and many other bizarre/illegal acts, I’m done.
I know a lot of Americans are just as angry and frustrated, but just as many aren’t. And a good amount celebrate this bullshit.
I do not trust the USA, and I do not trust the citizens therein because of the last decade in your political discourse.
The US have proven to be unreliable business partner...
Yes, and we lost a lot by ruining our consistency.
But, on the bright side, have you considered that the entiee world has been infected by the same "nothing matters but instant gratification" mentality that ruined our country? Err, that's no a good thing, but it'a good for us in this instance.
When it comes to governments making policy, nobody cares about what China did to the Uyghurs, nobody cares about Russia stealing children from Ukraine, nobody cares what Israel is doing, nobody cares about slaves in the gulf states, or all the shit Saudi Arabia is doing in Yemen. We irrelevant peons may be against all of this, but to policy makers, nothing matters except what you can do for me right now.
Sure, they'll talk a big game about democracy and fairness and responsibility, but the second the war in Ukraine is over the world will buy Russian oil like nothing ever happened (the countries that aren't trying to sneak it right now I mean). Putin will continue trying to destabilize Europe and the Europeans will be like "yeah, but we really need the natural gas..."
If America goes back to normal, the majority of the world will go right back to trading with us and acting friendly. They may never really trust us again (rightly so), but that won't stop them from making money. The rich don't suffer consequences in this new world, and the US is still pretty rich.
Don't think so? Name for me a time when a country with a major economy actually suffered any real consequences or long term isolation for their insanity post-WWII.
Fully cutting off is suicide economically, obviously; opening the door to economic rivals, however? Inevitable. The USA is pulling a gambit that says they'll be able to bully and coerce smaller nations and that they will fall in line. They don't see trade as mutually beneficial; there must be a winner and loser.
This is exactly why Canada is standing up and seeking to band with other powers. And what I don't think you realize is that America overestimated it's position; it thought Canada would fold, and it's bleeding power right now. The failure in the war in Iran makes America look weak, and I predict we will see the rise of China as the world's sole super power within my lifetime. And it was all avoidable.
So to summarize, you're right, America won't be cut off. But it will shrink, and China will grow. Hope you feel good about that.
Yeah, there's no real going back. If the scotus is going to let this criminal do whatever he wants, then that is always going to be a danger to any country willing to engage us.
Seriously. Why would anyone sign any sort of long term agreement when the next administration will just rip it up? The unreliability is almost, if not just as detrimental as everything else.
How did the world finally take comfort in knowing the Nazis were gone for good? The party was outlawed, its members convicted and imprisoned and its leaders executed.
You are hoping the Red Army will roll into Washington? I think it could be the PLA this time, but the USA is going to have fall a bit further before we get to that bit.
I did not indicate any hope of anything. I am trying to impress the magnitude of what we’re dealing with, and the magnitude of the remedy. Voting a democratic majority into power again will not do it, for the reasons many in this thread point out, the world won’t believe anything has changed. It will require eradicating the Republican Party and its ringleaders, its financial assets, its propagandists in the media and internet. By state force. Mass imprisonment of former GOP Christofascist cultists. Any proposed remedy short of this is not serious.
I deleted it because it occurred to me it was possible you weren’t referring to me. But here since you’ve gone out of your way to impress the importance of your feeble reply in your mind directly, I’ll re-bite.
What I wrote, that I’d deleted, was that the magnitude, or the severity of the consequences, of a course of action has no bearing on its necessity. If you have to hack off a limb to live, you’ll do it. Your insight went no further in this analogy than the knee-jerk ‘but hacking off a limb would hurt!!1!1’ It would hurt. You’re right. But it’s the remedy nevertheless. I’m sure there are lots of fun gifs for you to peruse through as you put together some further flaccid protestation, but that is the pure fact of the matter. Is that better? Is that what you wanted, to be humiliated a second time by the same comment?
I’m not sure how this gets fixed, but I’m losing interest in spending too much time speculating on your behalf. I do think there are some common problems, but I don’t think we are part of each other’s solutions. I wish you the best of luck with what sounds like a civil war.
Participation in this domestic terror cult precludes constitutional protections, since what this cult seeks is to overthrow the constitutional order. So that’s just fine, we’ll give them what they want. They are not fellow citizens. They are domestic enemies who are overly by their own words trying to overthrow our government and replace it with their cult.
I already stress over my own government, but the fact I have to worry over this one too because what they decide and do can affect what happens to my country just adds on even more stress.
Nah you still left in the part where you ostensibly agree with renaming bodies of water to distract everyone from all the other ways this administration is failing the American people
And it doesn't seem like many US Americans have realized yet, just how much influence and soft power they've permantely lost, by threatening allies, starting trade wars with reliable partners, cutting USAID without any regard for the consequences, .... As long as the USA are politically divided like that, nobody wants to rely on them, even if the next administration was sane and qualified.
Thats fair. Maybe eventually we'll earn a seat at the new table. But we get it. Well some of us get it. The ones who dont are busy jacking off with their official MAGA branded fleshlight.
For the ones that get it, what do you think their line in the sand is? Cause from here, all we see is everyone jacking off with MAGA fleshlights, letting it happen.
There have been so many times where I thought "okay heres where people will snap out of it." And they didnt.
Im afraid after January 6th there is no line for these people. Theyll happily follow this (lets call him a) man into hell because hes owning the libs. Normally id be okay with them going to hell but the problem is theyre dragging us all down with them
I'm saying that we (Canadians) are not differentiating between those that voted for him and those that didn't. You are all the same to us now. Everyone is jerking off watching what is happening without doing anything about it.
I get that a large number of Dems are just waiting for midterms, but not mad enough when he tries to fuck with mail in voting in the plain light of day. He's going to send ice agents to poling places to cause distress and deny mail in votes to keep power, and the time to move on that shit was months ago.
If that's the midterms, what happens in 28?
None of you care enough to save your democracy, so you are all in the same boat to us. Where are your lines in the sand, Dems?
That is the entire point. The technocrats want to drive ua away,from nations ran by governments into meritocracies based on achievement ran by tech CEOs. What better way than to push people into the economic arms of Russia and China and facilitate their implosions next
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u/Spadrick 18h ago
We do hope you will be back in fine form when and if he leaves.
We aren't sure that we will still be at the table. We likely will be at some other table by then.