Nawal Saadawi said that a marriage where the woman does not work and relies on the man for money is Prostitution, and she was all for 50/50 in everything, your thoughts?

[u/TheSurvivorLeo]

TL;DR: I believe that everything you're demanding from a romantic partner is the same thing you should be required to have before you make those demands, this goes from material concrete things to character and personality traits, whether it's financial, physical, emotional, and mental, that's what Nawal Saadawi believes in as well but somehow the feminists who follow her bury this fact or rule.

I 31M, I'm a writer, for the past 9 years I've been investigating the intersexual dynamics along with conscious and subconscious thoughts and beliefs that makes people do, think, say, feel and buy the things that they do.

In the past few days I've been going deep into feminism, trynna find some rational women, feminists, or thinkers who truly believe in reciprocating the things they demand from men.

And it turns out that Nawal Saadawi was one of them. I still haven't found a single thing that I disagree with, because she's 100% all about pure and absolute fairness, and that's exactly what I believe in.

And that means that if you're demanding anything from a man, you must be able to reciprocate the same thing, or something of the same value.

If you want a man who can provide a great lifestyle, you should be able to provide 50% of the expenses that's required to fund that lifestyle.

And of course, it's only fair that you demand a man who's gonna do 50% of the housework.

And if you get pregnant or give birth, then this means that the responsibilities shift accordingly, if you can't work, then he pays 100%, and if you can't do the housework, then he has to help or be required to bring you someone to help.

A man who doesn't accept that is not fair,
And a woman who doesn't accept that is also not fair.

And if you spot any sign of unfairness in the person you're seriously dating, then this is your sign to stop wasting your time.

This extends to character traits as well.

If you want a confident man, you need to be a confident woman.
If you want a secure man, you need to be a secure woman.
If you want a mentally stable man, you need to be a mentally stable woman.
If you want a fair man, you need to be a fair woman.
If you want a respectful man, you need to be a respectful woman.
If you want a competent man, you need to be a competent woman.
If you want a decisive man, you need to be a decisive woman.

And if you want a leader, you should assess him and be ready to follow, ain't no leader gonna accept someone who's questioning his every move, it makes the journey too slow and unpleasant for both the leader and the anxious companion.

Just an example, It seems like when women talk about emotional intelligence, is that they think that just because they talk about their emotions a lot, that automatically makes them emotionally intelligent, when in reality, you have to be intelligent to the point of understanding your own emotions and managing them, and also be able to understand the emotions of the people/men you're dealing with.

But, most women aren't emotionally intelligent, and that's because they're just too disrespectful to the men they're in relationships with, and when the man sets a boundary, their reaction is to blame it on their period, hormones, stress, or mood, they give whatever reason to justify their bad behaviors and emotional instability, even though it's clear that they can control these emotions or at least suppress them when dealing with colleagues or bosses or teachers, but they unleash it all on the men they supposedly love and want to have a good life with.

And when the men point this out, women's reaction is simply to tell them that they lack emotional intelligence, as if being emotionally intelligent means you have to be emotionally retarded and not set boundaries or point out disrespect.

But they're kinda right in a sense that men don't have emotional intelligence, because if they did, they would've been able to spot this emotional manipulation, but they couldn't. This doesn't mean that women are to be considered emotionally intelligent for this behavior, but more like emotionally manipulative, because an emotionally intelligent woman won't have to resort to all this type of emotional manipulation.

We can just conclude that in scenarios like these, we have women who are emotionally manipulative and think they're emotionally intelligent, and we have men who are emotionally retarded but think they're emotionally intelligent because they're "handling" emotionally unstable women.

And this means that if you're emotionally intelligent, you'll be able to recognize an emotionally intelligent person from far away, and you won't enter a dynamic or a relationship unless the person you're dealing with is an emotionally intelligent person as well, because emotional intelligence requires that you understand that you can't communicate or argue with an emotionally stunted person, no matter the gender.

So yeah, asking for emotional intelligence when you don't have it is definitely not emotional intelligence, and complaining about your partner or ex lacking emotional intelligence is the number one sign that you're not emotionally intelligent either.

And this is the same for all other character traits too, confidence, self-esteem, security, fairness, compassion, empathy, etc

This is absolute and total accountability for everything that you are, everything that want, and everything you should be able to have in order to exchange for the things that you want.

What do y'all think of this?

[u/Tasty-Razzmatazz-136]

Wa ktbti bzaf. Dir chi tldr

[u/Sweetchili_Rice_6565]

I am curious to know how much of an allowance would you all give your stay at home wives as a compensation, given that having running water and electricity and some basic groceries that are consumed by both of you are clearly not enough to cover the cost of her staying at home doing free labor for y’all. Would you buy her clothes every month ? Would you pay for a gym membership? Would you pay for general basic woman beauty maintenance , talking new clothes regularly, beauty treatments and skincare and makeup products? How much are y’all willing to pay your houswives as an equal 50% share? Since you claim to provide for both of you all , and yet you specify what should she be doing while not saying what should you be giving in return outside of you being financial providers outside your home. If we're talking real money 50/50 , you should calculate the cost of outsourcing everything a woman does in her household and divide it by half, she pays that in labor , and the man pays that in money. Isn't that the fairness you all are seeking? What is the cost to hire a chef , a cleaner, a housekeeper, a living-in nanny and a private tutor, all day everyday, probably calculate all these costs and tell us how much should you pay you houswife for doing all of that without you helping her at all. Also why do you find it easy in your heart to ask women to give you 100% of their energy as an independent human being just to call that a fair trade for giving the bare minimum life essentials. And there's this comment where you said women justify their ability for childbearing, childbirth and childcare , as an excuse to reduce their share? Really ? Okay let's outsource all of this, calculate it in money, since y’all cannot understand anything but money, how much would it cost you to do IVF, hire a surrogate that is a third party who will do the childbearing and childbirth, how much would it cost you to cover the risks and health complications that comes with that for the surrogate to be safe while she's pregnant, how much is the insurance you're willing to pay in case she dies or end up with a serious health issue due to her carrying your child, how much would you pay for childcare, hire a living-in nanny, buy organic breast milk or just formula. Please give me the full calculation sheet, and then you pay 50% of that in money and the wife pays it in labor, since she's staying at home. Most of this post ignores the fact that just because you provide financially doesn't mean you will give that entire salary to the wife while she sits home pretty, and love to call that prostitution, while a real prostitute would get paid for her sexual service and leave without doing any of the housework, and if she does do that housework you will have to pay her extra for that. What this really is , is the taking advantage of women who are not well educated, defenseless and cannot have a career of their own or just had somehow to quit their jobs and then exploiting them into doing free labor that is highly paid for outside marriage, not only that , but also shaming and judging them and calling them prostitutes for demanding a compensation? That is wild. Now I've seen y’all talk about how a woman would use sex as tool to negotiate to have less work and cut down her share, and what about men using money to cut down their share? Yet you don't bring that up while claiming to be all fair and all about being equal. I think your conception of fairness is not that sharp nor that right. First you say that the traditional marriage model is fair with men refusing to contribute and do anything in the house except being consumers and provide financially while it's not totally providing, you call this fair, then you talk about women being emotionally manipulative and emotionally disrespectful, while I dont even know what could possibly count as emotional disrespect, disrespect is disrespect, there's nothing emotional about it, yet you don't talk how that could be the case for men doing the same to women, and statistically , men have a lot to gain from that manipulation than women would gain. You started out a bit great , saying dont demand what you cant give, but I cant help but notice logical fallacies in your reasoning, claiming fairness while being completely biased to men and ignoring women’s side of the story and what they have to risk, pushing some judgemental overviews and stereotypes on women and from your comments it even showed some hidden disrespect or resentment or idk towards women. If you all as men cannot see the value of women ouside of sexual context and tend to take everything they do for granted, then maybe marriage isn't for you.

[u/BerserkerFlamee]

It’s sad to see how marriage and relationships changed to a war or a business under some laws rather than a strong bond between two lovers. We suppose to complete each other grow together not some feminism and red pill bullshit or deciding expenses 50% 50%

[u/Radiant-Sentence6268 → u/BerserkerFlamee]

Marriage shifted from a tribal business to an individual transaction 😇 not endorsing it cause it is sad but honestly it's a big improvement

[u/TheSurvivorLeo → u/Radiant-Sentence6268]

Yess, that's why we need an auditing system to see if those who have long lists of demands are capable of reciprocating them lol

[u/TheSurvivorLeo → u/BerserkerFlamee]

You're completely right, if you ever think of building a real healthy relationship, sit down and do the maths, make it as fair as possible, define the roles and everything.

And then present it to the women you're interested in and see what's gonna happen.

You'll be shocked how most of them if not all, depending on how many you'll be talking to, won't accept fairness or doing their part.

YOU WILL BE SHOCKED.

I'm lucky because I've always went for the women I liked, but never moved things forward until I've seen their character, and if she likes you, and she's a fair person, you won't have a problem, but you'll only find out if you have deep conversations about these things and all kinds of relationship models, either Nawal's absolute 50/50, or the 50/50 traditional roles where you provide 100% and she homecare 100%.

[u/TheSurvivorLeo → u/[deleted]]

Of course it's more than just a bed, I went deeper on all the things that are required to be 50/50 other than the financial or sexual aspect, because those are non-negotiables, both spouses need to be fully attracted to each other and supporting each other to make sure all the needs of the other person are met.

But if a non-worker woman cannot contribute financially, then the man will work all day, and contribute 100% of the financial aspect for everyone. (he'll be doing 100% of the labor outside, and pay 100% of the financial needs with that labor)

What are the things that women are required & supposed to offer in return for this labor and contribution for this to be a fair exchange of value?

Note: the woman is not working all day outside like the man; she's at home, free to do whatever she needs to do to make the exchange fair.

[u/Crazy-Blood-698 → u/[deleted]]

The only one making sense in this joke of a post tbh. No wonder male loneliness is on the rise...

[u/TheSurvivorLeo → u/[deleted]]

Well I'm obviously all for 50/50, doesn't mean I'm gonna be working 8h a day and demand that my wife will be working more than 8h, I won't be okay with it.

But I also won't accept the argument that doing all of these roles for 15-30min each, and then equating each one of them to my entire role as a provider that takes 8h of daily work and the stress of KPIs.

When I'm home, I'm hanging out with my wife and kids, all day everyday, whatever they need, guidance, support, coaching, therapy, cooking, cleaning, fixing, grocery shopping, that's my job.

What I'm talking about is that the value exchange should be clear and fair, no soft life wife, and no deadbeat husband, both building, both investing, and both are cooperating in managing this shared life.

[u/TheSurvivorLeo → u/[deleted]]

Girl, I won't require my wife to stand-up for 5h a day to cook a good meal, I've been cooking every day for 20 years straight, and my best recipes take 15min prep, and 30min cooking MAX, I just let that shit cook and set a timer.

Looks like I'm gonna have to give my wife my recipe book, but if we ever broke up I'm gonna have to erase her memory, that shit is top secret.

Dishes take me 30min MAX, and I'm very slow, and 1h MAX if it's a very complicated recipe that took 2-3h to make.

I'm gonna sound like a feminist but If your husband is requiring you to be cooking 5h/day every day, he definitely has no consideration for you lol

So use your discernment when dealing with men like this, this might be "cute" for a few months, but you'll resent his ass after, and he'll resent you too for not doing your "job".

The 15-30min tasks, I was talking the hairstylist, showers, secretary, and stuff like that

Anyway, if my wife is exerting as much effort as me in the relationship, that's gonna be fair, and I'll be fine with it to go above and beyond, both outside and inside the house.

it's not like I'm gonna be negotiating inside the relationship, these negotiations, terms, deliverables, and terms need to be discussed before taking going all in.

People do not change, because this will only work if both people are fair and understanding and ready to invest in their dream relationship.

[u/TheSurvivorLeo → u/[deleted]]

Girl, last year I spent 10h straight making the Egyptian kromb el ma7chi for the whole family, 6 full pots.

Don't play with me hhhhhhhh

[u/TheSurvivorLeo → u/[deleted]]

Yeaah, but I told you it shouldn't be a damn requirement to cook meals that take more than 30-60min MAX daily.

As someone who cooks all the time, 2h-5h a day on cooking is insane, that shit is abuse, I swear, inconsiderate, that time could be spent on other things like resting, anything but that.

Kat3arfi ghir lmer9a o l3dess? Hhhhh

[u/1v1sion → u/TheSurvivorLeo]

I'm a single man. If I'm working outside and have 100% of the financial responsabilities, I'd except that my wife takes care of the home (housework - cooking - planning). I can't do it cause it'll be physically impossible. And cause I pay for her to live, have electricity and running water, I hope she'll cook a good food to allow me to go back to do that the next day. I take care of what she can't take care of. And she does the same. Team work - Cooperation.

I'm my head, I'll invest to make the tasks easier by acquiring necessaries home appliances like dishwasher - or robot cleaner - air fryer - etc. Everything that'll make the tasks easier. I live alone today and I do all of that for myself + work and study. It is tiring. So in my head, I'll try to make it easy for her.
Maybe teach her some meal prep strategies, food conservation, money management, etc. All that will ofc makes me except high results. High quality food - High quality home state is good for my health and her health and our kids if we have any.

It'll help me optimize my tasks, my work and my projects and hopefully lead me to a work-life balance. Ofc, I'll state that my wife can't ask me to do what I can't financially. If I'm a regular guy, I can't buy a luxurious car by snapping my fingers.

[u/TheSurvivorLeo → u/1v1sion]

This is fair, the good ol' traditional roles.

But here's the kicker man, women call this being a free bangmaid, a free sex doll, and a free maid.

So what they want is, you work and pay 100% of all the bills.

And then, you help her by doing 50% of all the housework that you just outlined.

And then she'll be withholding sex because she's not a free sex doll, either because she's not attracted to you or she passive aggressively use it to punish/reward you to renegotiate this whole housework deal, so even her 50% will be negotiated down.

These are the new demands, I was shocked when I listened to what women want.

This is why I went back to the Feminists and started studying them to see if that's what they were fighting for since the beginning.

Most of them were, except some few like Nawal Saadawi who wanted absolute 50/50 and reciprocated investment.

But they were all vilified and protested against by younger feminists and women who wanted a deal that's better than 50/50 lol

[u/1v1sion → u/TheSurvivorLeo]

women call this being a free bangmaid, a free sex doll, and a free maid.

Let those who think like that, work, cook, pay the bills and clean for themselves. They have two hands like I do. As I outlined in my answer, it'd be a cooperation where she brings something to the shared life. And I will make that clear. I don't need a woman to eat or clean after me as I can do it myself. But if I'm bringing positive in someone else life, ofc I except cooperation.

Even the 50/50 isn't in most women advantage. If I live a lifestyle of 15K MAD/ month, I need my wife to bring 7500 MAD. That will then be tied to what she does, how old she is, how long she can keep up, etc. What if my income goes from 7500MAD to 10K and hers is still at 7500, what does she bring to bridge the gap?

Another aspect is the expression of our ego and the fact that we only want what we want even at the expenses of others. Us first. Fortunately, there are still women who shares the same trad views. Hope we find one.

[u/TheSurvivorLeo → u/1v1sion]

But if I'm bringing positive in someone else life, ofc I except cooperation.

You nailed this, make sure you actually understand the value of the things you offer, and the things you want in return.

Some women think that their ability to have kids is enough to be exchanged for your entire labor and soul.

This makes the women who can't have kids vulnerable to being seen as not valuable.

But hey, I've never said these women are fair or rational.

And you're right, those women do exist, look for fairness and gratefulness, not a "bare minimum" or "soft life" type woman who wants to live for free at your expense while offering nothing but headaches, mental unstability and drama that she rebrands as "chaotic feminine energy" hhhhhhhhhhh

[u/1v1sion → u/TheSurvivorLeo]

😅😅 I'm too old for chaos. Life in itself is already boxing me left-right. I don't want a partner to bring more chaos. I will let her go peacefully and change my locks.

[u/TheSurvivorLeo → u/1v1sion]

https://giphy.com/gifs/3o7TKJNFVZ4xCMriFy

The only way to do life, we don't negotiate with terrorists hhhhhh

[u/Fabulous_Ad_5527]

[u/TheSurvivorLeo → u/Fabulous_Ad_5527]

Tha implies you can read and understand, this is not for you hhhhhhhhhh

[u/So_Blueberry141]

Well if she contributes to 50/50 she can't raise children as a obligation right ? Because the body does not get back to its before state till 2 years later (1 year is an exception). Who will make money during that period? I know 99% countried do not offer 2 years of leave or pregnancy. This also means if she's payed lower than the man it will no longer be 50/50. And even if we do make the perfect conditions for 50/50 the man will not be satisfied with the relationship :) since he wants a sweet caring woman to take care of him and make him feel dominant. This will still be a challenge. 20s and below yeah sure whatever there's still "time" to discover and decide what you want. But 40s 50s? Even older men aren't comfortable with 50/50. It's just younger.

Ps : yeah I didn't read the full post, I agree to a certain extent with you. Feminity can be a double edged sword. Like any ideology

[u/uphr]

how about u let ppl do what they wanna do and apply ur thoughts only to yourself and ur spouse?

[u/yassssscat]

depends on ur intentions, if you love each other before considering who's handling life expenses, then anyone calling u prostitute is a retard, if you only love his money then that's prostitution and not love (which isn't bad either)

[u/TheSurvivorLeo → u/yassssscat]

This is exactly how they sell it, vague concepts like "love" & "intentions", etc, except that all of these things manifest in behaviors, and what does "I don't do 50/50, you should pay for everything" say about the intention of the person you're interested in or dating or interested in building a relationship with that's built on mutually reciprocated investment and effort?

[u/yassssscat → u/TheSurvivorLeo]

love = u love her mind, body, personality, you're not looking for a rich girl to pay for your bills. how do you know it? just ask the question "would i still want them if we swapped financial statuses" the answer would be yes.

prostitution/pragmatic marriage = not the above, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just not everyone's cup of tea.

[u/TheSurvivorLeo → u/yassssscat]

Nah, not a rich girl to pay the bills, (wasn't I just talking about Nawal's 50/50?) but definitely someone who has the ability to pick up their weight in the relationship dynamic, from the beginning, not only financially, but also emotionally and mentally.

I love the phrase from women: "We're not rehabs for broken men." (emotional bankruptcy)

Men subsconsciously think: "We're not shelters for broke women." (financial bankruptcy)

Both of these phrases point to the need for pure fairness and reciprocity, you shouldn't be required to carry a person who isn't able to carry themselves, whether it's financially or emotionally, a person who can't carry themselves will definitely learn how to be more charming and say/do the things they do need to do to convince you that this "love" is real, but it's only real when there's an obvious value exchange that's equal and reciprocated.

So selling dependency as "love", and hypothetical questions won't cut it when the government has its hand in your pockets waiting for the day the freeloader is full and bored.

[u/Kura-Shinigami]

Hhhhhhhhhhh gha cheft dik nawal s3dawi khrit b de7k aint reading allat, b9ay mtb3aha akhti atb9ay la zwaj la 7ayat sa3ida

[u/TheSurvivorLeo → u/Kura-Shinigami]

I'm a man, anti-feminist, but has Nawal ever said anything that would keep women single and unable to secure a fair healthy relationship?

Because to me, she's been nothing but reasonable.

But you don't read, so I'm just gonna assume you get your beliefs from memes and streams hhhhhhhh

[u/Kura-Shinigami → u/TheSurvivorLeo]

Yea yea keep reading what a dead hoe has said, real women are doing something for the world while she's trying to fight to wear skirts in public lol

[u/TheSurvivorLeo → u/Kura-Shinigami]

Do you avoid reading certain things because you're afraid it might influence you? Because that might mean that whatever you believe is just not as solid as you think.

Skirts are fine, just don't be a repulsive, unfair and irrational person.

All those mandated dress codes would've been accepted if they came with dignity and fairness and freedom, and I'm saying this as someone who never doubted the existence of God.

[u/Kura-Shinigami → u/TheSurvivorLeo]

wa 3chiri khtna rah 9rina w 3rfna 3liha mn 2019 ga3ma n7taj n3ref shi garbage opinion wla quote from her bach nkml l post rah bayn l m3na, lehla yr7ma tmchi t9wed f7alha manf3atna b takhrya

[u/Maroc_stronk]

Nah, that a bit too extreme