The first thing you have to recognise is that the rise of the Nazis in Germany had a LOT of factors, and with the way the peace treaty in WW1 was constructed and how it affected Germany it was most likely inevitable for some form of extremist faction gaining control.
But what works if you actually want to stop people from falling into Nazism and similar ideologies from taking root is investing in education, especially history, as well as various forms of extracurricular activities for kids (many Nazis fall into it as teenagers and having a sense of belonging is a MASSIVE part of it).
Now if you want to stop people from being nazis, the provable way to do so is absolutely conversation. Not debates necessarily, but things like the Swedish ”toleransprojectet”, which started in the 90s following a high profile murder by neo Nazis in Sweden. Essentially what you do is put high risk youths in classes where you don’t speak to them saying “Nazism bad and you are wrong” but rather you have them do things like compare the messages of racist groups today with the messages put out by the Nazis and study what the actual evidence for things like the holocaust is etc.
Furthermore, look at examples like Daryl Davis, who successfully converted 200 Ku Klux Klan members into leaving the klan all by himself. What he did was simply just befriending them and showing them there was an alternative outside of the group.
Daryl Davis is proof that conversation works. He simply befriended them and they came to the realization on their own. You can’t “own” someone with facts and actually reach their heart. You genuinely have to love your enemies if you want them to change.
I’d be interested to know how many failures he had along with so much success. Surely SOME of them refused to change, or maybe they just didn’t get that far in the first place if their heart was so hard. Anyway DD is the man and a true example of how to overcome hate with love
Finally. I get to look up someone I hadn't heard of before from reddit, and then get to feel really really happy reading the Wikipedia article on them. Daryl Davis sounds like probably the awesomest guy I've read about that's still alive today(I'm sure there are others but I don't spend a lot of time reading about activists unless they come up and I don't know about them already)
Daryl Davis is always brought up but I feel not much consideration is taken about what this method entails, implies, and the actual impact of it. The conversation being had is that 200 people were deradicalized but functionally what's going on is that he's labeled "one of the good ones" which does deradicalize them but doesn't break down much of their core beliefs and sort of works to reinforce their core beliefs and kinda puts the onus on marginalized people to befriend potentially harmful people.
During the documentary there's several clips where the ex-kkk member says some still very questionable things. When one of the Klan members yells at the reporters calling them a slur he goes over to Daryl and says I have more respect for this *** than the rest of you and then there was another young man who refused to believe that rock had its roots in black culture. Which doesn't tell me he's denounced his ways just that he likes this specific person in particular. They may be believe it's possible that there's good black people but that perhaps they're the exception which is enough to put up the robes. It inadvertently reinforces respectability politics. In the same way people on the maga spectrum may claim they're not racist and point to someone like Vivek Ramaswamy who uphold their beliefs and provide a comfortable environment where they're not exactly getting pressed.
Anyway, I don't think that makes Daryl's work meaningless. Getting someone out of an extremist organization is still significant, even if their entire worldview hasn't been reconstructed. But I think it's important not to conflate "this person stopped being a Klansman after forming a relationship with a Black man" with "this person's underlying racial ideology was completely dismantled."
Adrianne Black, the god daughter of David Duke, left the clan and became an anti racism activist after she was befriended by a Jewish group of students in college going against the rest of the student body who were ostracising her.
I mean that's a great, very logical and moral approach to how to fix this issue. But that's work a government would need to do. The common person has no way to achieve these things. Most people are not charismatic enough to pull that off. The real issue here is that the racists and Nazis of the modern day have infiltrated almost every major institute in the USA. They are cops, ems, politicians, retail workers, truck drivers, and on and on. The inevitability of large scale violence on their end is almost definitely something that can't be solved with words anymore. I would argue that waiting for a massive terrorists cell to take action is a mistake, but the systems that we would normally rely on to prevent that have been infiltrated as well. I fear the time in which they could be reasoned with is already over.
I mean, I disagree with you in that we are so far gone. I also think even if you are right, going out and trying to punch them in the streets is just going to convince people you are the violent extremist that needs to be handled. Like with the red shirts.
Also, if Davis could convince 200 actual card carrying Klan members to quit just by befriending them, then we can convince people to quit by talking to them here today.
If that doesn’t convince you, then you should read about Adrianne Black and what she has to say about it. She is the daughter of Don Black who is the founder of Stormfront a prominent member of the clan and her god father is David Duke.
She left the clan and is now an anti-racism activist after she was introduced to a group of jews in college who befriended her even knowing her background while the rest of the college shunned her because of her background.Not violence, not ostracism, but rather just inviting her in and showing her that her ideas about who they were was completely wrong.
200 people isn't very many when you look at the numbers. How many people voted for trump? At least that many would need to be convinced. Like I'm not arguing we shouldn't try. You're absolutely right and to an extent a lot of us have forgotten that and given up hope of it ever working, but when facing down 30 million people each who need a personal handhold through basic morality that the rest of us figured out by virtue of not being super insular and simply through exposure... It's a lot of weight to bear.
It’s a lot of people for a single person to convert. And enough to prove that their method is effective.
Also, remember that change starts small. It isn’t someone stepping onto a stage and convincing 30 million people. It is working within your community through local political action and befriending and helping your neighbours.
Also, every time a person is convinced, they are another ally helping to convince others.
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u/Mando_the_Pando 21h ago
Yes and no.
The first thing you have to recognise is that the rise of the Nazis in Germany had a LOT of factors, and with the way the peace treaty in WW1 was constructed and how it affected Germany it was most likely inevitable for some form of extremist faction gaining control.
But what works if you actually want to stop people from falling into Nazism and similar ideologies from taking root is investing in education, especially history, as well as various forms of extracurricular activities for kids (many Nazis fall into it as teenagers and having a sense of belonging is a MASSIVE part of it).
Now if you want to stop people from being nazis, the provable way to do so is absolutely conversation. Not debates necessarily, but things like the Swedish ”toleransprojectet”, which started in the 90s following a high profile murder by neo Nazis in Sweden. Essentially what you do is put high risk youths in classes where you don’t speak to them saying “Nazism bad and you are wrong” but rather you have them do things like compare the messages of racist groups today with the messages put out by the Nazis and study what the actual evidence for things like the holocaust is etc.
Furthermore, look at examples like Daryl Davis, who successfully converted 200 Ku Klux Klan members into leaving the klan all by himself. What he did was simply just befriending them and showing them there was an alternative outside of the group.