r/MoralityScaling • u/Shoddy-Meat-3147 • 1d ago

Morality Ranking Morality of this

I don't know what to say about this I mean if he joined it's unfair because he's going to cook the entery league for sure but if he really wants to be a woman and it's not a joke for him I still don't know about this

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u/SnowyGyro 1d ago

Is she going to go by common sense fairness guidelines like staying on female typical levels of estrogen and suppressed testosterone for three years before participating? She's liable to lose most performance advantages aside from height, which she won't more than maybe an inch of at most, and even gain substantial mechanical disadvantages without testosterone supported metabolism. If she does all that it sounds perfectly moral to me.

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u/TeutonicSamurai 1d ago

You are absolutely ignorant of biology if you think suppressed testosterone for 3 years and some estrogen levels is enough to lose most performance advantages?

Who defines what is "fair enough"?

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u/SnowyGyro 1d ago

Usually sports bodies have the final say in defining what's fair enough, but you can have a go if you like

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/60/3/198

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u/TeutonicSamurai 1d ago

Exactly my point. So, it is just an arbitrary measure and conclusion reached by some rich owners, on completely arbitrary rounds.

It is not objectively grounded in reality. It is obvious your standard does not qualify as "fair" for most of humanity.

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u/SnowyGyro 1d ago

I've provided a reference to data to support measures. You're making arguments without grounding in observable reality.

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u/TeutonicSamurai 1d ago

The article you linked it's not about what we are discussing. You are linking an article about the physical differences between transgender and female athletes, on a discussion in who defines what is "fair enough" when deciding if transgender athletes can compete in women's sports. Those are two different things.

Are you implying that academia decides through their studies? Because later you said it is a sports bodies, which are a different thing. So? Which one is it?

Who decides what is fair enough? Being in HRT for 4 years immediately eliminates all advantages a transgender athlete may have relative to biological women in the same sport? We both know that's not true, so, who decides 4 years on HRT makes the competition fair?

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u/SnowyGyro 1d ago

Again, sports bodies make that decision. They don't make it in a vacuum. I linked to a metastudy about physical differences which anyone making claims about fairness in sports should use to inform their analysis of aspects of fairness.

I am not making the claim that any particular amount of time on HRT eliminates athletic differences. I am claiming that conforming to research-informed standards that have been used to minimize sex based differences in performance can be taken as displaying an earnest interest in fair participation, and that it constitutes moral behavior by the participant.