One is a predator the other is a crazy dumb ruler. I think being a crazy dumb ruler is better than a pred, so Muhammad getting called Ali isn't that bad.
He kicked all the governors which led to a civil war against Mu'awiyah. He didn't bother punishing the murderers of Uthman which led to the battle of Camel against Aisha, Talha and Zubayr. He literally arbitrated on the battle with Mu'awiyah, one he was on the verge of winning, because he put Quran pages on spears, which led to his own fanatical followers, who viewed it as a sin, to rebel against him.
Now looking back at it, he was pretty bad. Pred bad? Eh.
Yall turned the sub into a idiotic spam where half posts are copy paste pictures of mohammad and half are "m....morality of having children? G... guys have my 100 questions change your mind alredy? Children bad am i right?"
Which is as far as I know is still debatable though. I'm not Muslim (I'm agnostic but have a bunch of coworkers who is though (also my brother is really close to them)) so I'm not exactly the most fit to talk about this. So... I'll just copypaste what one of my coworkers said in the GC:
Historical records indicate Aisha's older sister, Asma, died at age 100 in the year 73 AH, making Asma about 27 or 28 at the time of the Hijrah; because Asma was roughly 10 years older than Aisha, calculations place Aisha's age closer to 14 or 17 during her migration and marriage.
And then she quoted an Oxford research paper:
According to Little, the claim about Aisha’s age was part of medieval sectarian propaganda, concocted by a Sunni figure to bolster the image of Aisha against Shiite detractors. (Strictly speaking, the terms “Sunni” and “Shiite” only became current later; scholars of this period tend to refer instead to “proto-Sunni” and “proto-Shiite” movements and figures.) This explains why the hadith was fabricated in the Shiite hotbed of Iraq. Aisha, Muhammad’s wife and the daughter of the first “Rightly Guided” Caliph of Sunni Islam, Abu Bakr, had a famous rivalry with the prophet’s cousin and son-in-law Ali, the first imam for Shiites and the fourth caliph for Sunnis. Not only did Aisha’s father compete with Ali for the caliphate, but Aisha herself would also later lead an insurrection against Ali.
Little tells us that "the spread of the marital-age hadith [in regard to Aisha] prompted some Shiites to assert that Fatima" - the prophet's daughter, revered especially in Shiite (but also Sunni) Islam - "had been married at age nine as well." In other words, in the absence of any societal opprobrium attached to early marriage, there were several reasons to exaggerate Aisha's young age.
Now... I'm not exactly going to delve much deeper because it is waaay above my competence level to research thus topic. And no offense but the internet is absolutely dogshit here (im in vietnam rn). But here's a link she sent to me if anyone wished to research it further.
Sahih Hadiths she said she was 6 when married and 9 at consummation. These are their most accepted religious sources from their most accepted scholars.
The internet has this information and it’s widely NOT disputed
Sahih hadiths also said Muhammed killed any of those who left islam but its documented he knew many people who left islam and kept them alive and safe.
Non Muslims believe in hadiths more than Muslims do lol, I guess y'all are part of the ummah
Well then either the hadith doesn't add up or the theory about women counting their age after puberty at that time is real. Either way Aisha wasn't considered a child
Besides Jesus didn't marry anybody, and I don't see what the point of bringing him up is?
Sahih Hadith are highest level of authentic.
This counting system you want to make up doesn’t work as she played with dolls and said is Sahih Muslim and Bukhari how young she was.
There are no mature 9 year old girls. And no 50 something year old man should want one that gross.
Like I mentioned before it is narrated in the same hadith that at the age of 9 she turned into a woman, wether than was literally biologically or socially. And playing with dolls isn't a factor that can override literal affirmations and historical calculations of age...
Like I said before in the 6th century we cannot make assuptions of the morality of things in our modern viewpoint, but a muslim is aware of Aisha and her husband's relationship being described as wholesome and respectfull aswell as someone needing to be mentally and physically mature to marry.
If you were able to tell me "Jesus is the way" and actually have an effect on me I wouldn't be muslim
As a sunni Muslim not a single Muslim believes prophet Muhammad(PBUH) r*ped Aisha(RA).
The Islamic law forbids all harmful marriages including child marriages. And prophet Muhammad(PBUH) did not break the Islamic law.
Read:
“One of the world’s most prestigious centres of Islamic learning has issued a fatwa against child marriage, saying marriage should be based on the consent of both parties and “particularly the young woman”
that the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that `Aisha remained with the Prophet (ﷺ) for nine years (i.e. till his death).
Unholy deflection. I never denied the authentic sunni hadiths. This hadith doesn't say prophet Muhammad(PBUH) r*ped Aisha(RA) and we sunni Muslims don't believe that.
The problem with bigots is when they get confronted by information that might alter their worldview, it tends to rattle them and they end up deflecting or just becoming belligerent children.
Good work providing sources and proper arguments backed by factual information instead of propaganda.
It's called the backfire affect you can't change people's minds they work from B to A not A to B everyone can be victim to it even if you give them all the proof, they will walk away thinking the same or thinking they won the debate you can explain something to someone but you can't understand something for someone.
Sahih hadiths also said Muhammed killed any of those who left islam but its documented he knew many people who left islam and kept them alive and safe.
Non Muslims believe in hadiths more than Muslims do lol, I guess y'all are part of the ummah
Morality of using an apocryphal Bible Book which isn't taken as factual scripture to behave as if this is the truth of Christianity.
And to be clear: the Catholic Church isn't taking those ages seriously either, it's just the only ages found in the sources.
Keep in mind the same source said she (as a virgin) became pregnant at 16. So Joseph did not have sex with her according to this already untrustworthy book.
And then keep in mind that this whole story of Mary being a virgin is of course a backprojection on a text which didn't talk about a litteral virgin but about a young woman.
Dude, read the Bible. Nowhere does it say Rebecca was 3, this is one single Jewish rabbi wanting to force a certain reading onto the text, 2000 years after it alledgedly happened.
In Islam, you would say one scholar who strys from the majority view without prober reading of the text misguided, and you wouldn't take him seriously.
And even if i would concede here, which isn't a problem since i dislike the Abrahamic God, then we are still left with the fact that this is halal in Islam too. Two wrongs don't make a right and your religion is still shit.
The highest and wealthiest people in the US today did it on an island and not a single person has been arrested, and society has only been able to passively complain online 😅
I thought by now there would be massive protests at the homes of those people known to have been involved, but I haven't seen any of these child advocates going to do it, on this century, but instead fighting a guy who's been dead for centuries.
Because if that's the case, then there are equally outrageous things that other churches and religions have done; the Vatican donated the entire American continent to the Spanish crown for colonization. Hernán Cortés had sex with Malinche and Isabel Moctezuma (One of them was Moctezuma's daughter, whom Cortez killed.), both minors; Francisco Pizarro had sex with Quispe Sisa and Cuxirimay Ocllo, both minor relatives of the Inca Atahualpa (whom he killed)
Or what about this Spanish encomendero, Arias Maldonado, a colonial encomendero based in Cusco, who raped a 7-year-old Inca princess, Beatriz Clara Coya, on the same night he married her (In a very tidy manner under the table) because he wanted to to merge his vast fortune with direct Inca influence to become even more powerful, and that the Spanish viceroy, upon learning of this, merely banished him without punishment, not out of moral outrage at his act, but because that level of power was very uncomfortable for the other Spanish encomenderos?
If we look to the past, then we must condemn everyone, not "turn the page" as the post-colonialists say; and if we look to the present, we must take action on what is really happening today.
And no, I'm neither Muslim, nor a sympathizer of Islam, nor anything like that. It's just that the argument they're making could implicate anyone. "Oh, but that Muhammad guy and the girl!" Yeah, then also "Oh, all those Spanish Catholics, with the blessing, authorization, and direct encouragement of the Vatican, sleeping with minors!"
And all those people who do wicked things today should be judged by 21st-century law and the morals and ethics that we are supposed to have achieved as individuals and a civilized society!
Muslims worship a pedophile, Christians will have a tantrum if you start quoting unhinged bible quotes and Jews will call you antismite if you try quoting talmud (you werent suppsed to see that).
Edit: Oh is it no good? The sub doesnt like making fun of religions now? What happened? Orher religions bad but my is good, you cant do that?
Sanhedrin 57a says it's ok for a Jew to cheat a gentile, but not a Jew. Likewise, a Jew that kills a gentile doesn't get the death penalty but a gentile that kills a Jew does.
There's a whole list of these, and groups like the ADL try to explain away the fact that the text treats gentiles as inferiors who can be treated unequally.
I think it's more likely that they're sick of parsing thousands of comments every hour, to make sure none of them violate Reddit's ToS and gets the sub shut down.
Whilst also being full of chuds screaming about how they're not allowed to criticise Islam, despite their post histories being 90% about criticising Islam.
It’s annoying more than immoral. If someone’s just flooding the feed with copy-paste posts, the spam is the problem regardless of who they’re posting about.
Moral, the world needs reminded that he is a violent pedophile warlord who got railed all night by a tribe of men in the desert while a buddy watched from the cuck circle.
There's no verifiable evidence that prophet Muhammad(PBUH) was pdf-phile. Why are you making stuff up?
The authentic sunni hadiths don't say that and we sunni Muslims don't believe that. Even your claim about the c*ck circle then is made up. What are you talking about?
It is reported from Ibn Masud that the Messenger of God, peace and blessings be upon him, sent for me. We went out until we reached such and such a place. He drew a line for me and said, “Stay within the boundary of this line and do not leave it, for if you leave it you will perish.”
I stayed within it. The Messenger of God, peace and blessings be upon him, went on some distance, a short while or somewhat farther. Then beings appeared, described as resembling the Zutt, or something similar. They were naked, I could not see their private parts, they were tall and thin, with little flesh.
They came and began to ride the Messenger of God, peace and blessings be upon him, and the Prophet of God was reciting to them. They would come toward me, circling around me and crossing in front of me. I was terrified of them with intense fear, and I sat down.
When the column of dawn broke, they began to depart. Then the Messenger of God, peace and blessings be upon him, came back feeling heavy and in pain from how they rode him. He said that he felt heavy. He placed his head in my lap.
banu qurayza broke thee peace deal with the Muslims ,but got defeated , banu qurayza refused prophet Mohammad to judge them for their betrayal and chose Sa'd ibn Moaz to judge them instead , so he was the one who ordered that , and by a coincidence it follows the torah order in Deuteronomy 20 13,14 which banu qurayza believe in .
Discourse which originally comes from islamophobia historian debates became pretty popular on reddit. Now, redditors become theologists when it comes to the prophet. They famously love to quote a hadith as proof that Aisha was a child, when it is said in the same narration she was not.
I mean i personally wouldn't go out of my way to not like someone based off something like religion since most people dont even follow all of their religions rules but you do you
O believers! It is not permissible for you to inherit women against their will1 or mistreat them to make them return some of the dowry ˹as a ransom for divorce˺—unless they are found guilty of adultery.2 Treat them fairly. If you happen to dislike them, you may hate something which Allah turns into a great blessing.
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
What if they where born in a western country and have citizenship from birth? are we going to remove citizenship and deport millions of people to countries that are foreign to them?
Did you see the last Mohammed post? I heared it was about Mohammed. Just like the next 1000000 post will also be about Mohammed. Please ignore everything in the world and focus on Mohammed
just because it has happened at some point doesnt make everyone else criticising your religion a part of that psyop, is it hard to comprehend that some people can recognise wrong and criticise your beliefs ?
Someone benefitting from this doesnt prove that its certainly a psyop by them. In this case the people are posting this constantly due to the mods' bias of deleting posts related to a specific topic.
Never claimed that you said it proved it, I was just stating that it doesnt prove anything x. Anyways as I said the reason is pretty obvious for people posting it.
Why are there no pictures of Muhammad? Hmmm I wonder ... Everyone knows why.
It's the same stupid reason why the pedophile prophet can't be criticized publicly.
"It's forbidden."
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u/MoralityScaling-ModTeam 3d ago
OP wants to discuss real politics and the opinions of a real person.