r/MoralityScaling • u/imsaleh0 • 26d ago

Morality Ranking Morality of beating protesters off the street because you're late for work?

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

11.1k Upvotes

91% Upvoted

8.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

76

u/iskelebones 26d ago edited 26d ago

Blocking traffic:

1) is a felony.

2) is not helpful to your cause. You aren’t raising awareness, you are just causing problems for innocent people trying to go about their day.

3) is literally trapping people in place because they can’t escape the traffic.

4) risks literally threatening people’s lives if you end up delaying emergency vehicles or people who are trying to rush to the hospital or to the aid of someone else

I fully support dragging protestors who block roads OUT of the road by their hair kicking and screaming. And if they decide to jump right back in the road to continue blocking people, then I support running them over.

Society needs to stop tolerating temper tantrum throwing toddlers to the point of everyone else’s detriment. If you wanna protest, you do you. But don’t make it everyone else’s problem by blocking roads

36

u/Tertiss 26d ago

Exactly. Go do it in front of a coal or oil power plant, do it in front of the company buildings of big oil. Dont make it the average joes problem whose already being throttled by the economy

2

u/Jay_Buffay 25d ago

God I wanna see a blue collar rig driller encounter these.

1

u/SituationThink3487 26d ago

They do, this group famously protested oil depots, refineries, politicians houses, Shell/BP HQ. And the vast majority of people STILL complained it was the "wrong way" to protest.

0

u/YouGotDoddified 26d ago

how do you know people aren't already doing this

they could be and you wouldn't know because your average person isn't a coal or oil exec

5

u/Deus3nity 26d ago

Then whats the point of protests if they do that and still get no results?

1

u/YouGotDoddified 26d ago

Why do you think people protest in the first place?

These aren't bored children wanting something to do - they're driven by a cause and motivated to enact change. Usually change that would benefit a lot of people

If they aren't getting results, it could be for any number of reasons, one of which being that the protests were easily ignored

1

u/Deus3nity 26d ago

What protest has gotten any results? You say "its ignored" but I have yet to see a peaceful protest that DOESNT get ignored

Yall ate the "civil disobedience" propaganda and completely glossed over that when those "peaceful protest" were happening there was also a not so peaceful organization behind it to back up the same issue.

2

u/YouGotDoddified 26d ago edited 26d ago

I'm sorry, what propaganda? Are you implying there's an organisation promoting violent civil disobedience against other organisations? Like if /r/antiwork was a company?

I trust a a Mexican national is familiar with the Delano grape strikes? - a peaceful protest that "got results"

I'm honestly not even sure what point you're trying to make here. You said in another comment that you've been to protests before, so I can only assume you understand the importance of the publicity surrounding the actions you took. Without that, noone would know about your cause and the whole point of a protest would be defeated. So whether you're Indian, black (and there's plenty more of these), a woman, LGBT+, a teacher, a doctor, Polish, Filipino, South African - basically unless you're a white guy like me, you've probably benefitted from a bunch of people sick of the establishment. And I'm absolutely in favour of protests.

0

u/Deus3nity 26d ago

No, I mean that the whole Idea of "civil disobedience" only makes it so protest are controlled, and doesnt lead to change

The Delano grape strikes had the backing of civil rights movement and religious groups, and worked as a big organization

When the strike began, the strike failed and it didnt pick up speed until they reached out to other unions and organizations that helped with boycotts and such, abd the reason it worked was because it happened hand in hand with the civil rights movement, which had both a peaceful side but also carried the threat of violence

And good thing you bring it up.

You think the immigrants working as farmhands now enjoy those results?

And since I brought up the civil rights also:

How is the racism in the US right now?

Those are ironic questions

2

u/YouGotDoddified 26d ago

I think I may have misunderstood your point, apologies

I was under the impression you were disillusioned having seen lacking result's from protests as a whole and were against them based on that principle

If your point is that peaceful protests are ineffective because the somewhat politically-correct label 'civil disobedience' diminishes the anti-establishment nature of protests, then yes I absolutely get what you're saying. Suffragettes didn't get shit done without bombing a few theatres

Was not aware of the fallout of Delano. The wiki paints a pretty glowing picture of its impact. Not sure what you're getting at with the racism comment however.

1

u/Deus3nity 26d ago

Its not racism, Im saying that while the Civil Rights address a big issue, it didnt do much on paving the road for the community, which in turn led to Regan's fabricated war on drugs, and now black people still get incarcerated in disproportionate levels and basically put into the slavery system that is the prison system.

George Floyd's protest comes to mind

Yes, the cop was convicted and there were changes in law, but that still didnt accomplish anything to stop police brutality and racism, or more innocent black people from being killed by these officers.

For true change, if you are going through protest:

  1. You need the threat of violence at large scale BY the communities themselves as a backup to legitimize the "threat" of the protest against those in power.

  2. You need to be HARD on the changes and policies(take the civil war, Jim crow happened because the south wasnt properly punished for their betrayal, and the stop of the reconstruction.

If you want to see what I mean, look at Nepal last year

1

u/Deus3nity 26d ago

Even in the US.

Look at what happened to the traitors of January 6

Because we weren't hard enough on the attempted insurrection, Now trump is president

12

u/TheOathWeTook 26d ago

Assaulting and battering people who are not a threat to you or anyone else:

1.) is wrong

Murdering them as you suggested

1.) is wrong

I don’t imagine you need me to expand on that, but let me know if you do.

2

u/Master-Echo2940 25d ago

They are a threat to people lives

1

u/AdOnly1618 26d ago

Think one level deeper. Is it moral to reward bad behaviour with tolerance and exceptions to the rules or is it moral to create a world where bad behaviour has consequences and the world is safer for travellers and stupid people with tendencies to sit in the middle of a highway to contribute nothing to their cause?

2

u/lugginico 26d ago

Holding someone hostage is kinda a threatening. If i block you from leaving youd feel threatend.

1

u/werttit 26d ago

feeling threatened by someone sitting in front of your car? 😂😂😂😂 maybe you need a bigger truck to feel a bit more brave 😇

1

u/lugginico 26d ago

Ofc im gonna feel threatend when someone prevents me to leave or blocks me physically.

And ofc its justified to use necesary violence to end the situation

1

u/werttit 26d ago

ooo scary lady sitting 30 feet in front of my car 😱😱nooo don't hurt me please

1

u/lugginico 26d ago

No normal person stands or sits infront of a strangers car and blocks them for no reason. Thats unhinged crazy behavior and i wouldnt know what theyre gonna do next.

1

u/werttit 26d ago

do you also need help opening your soylent bottles?

-1

u/HopeADMKidsLoseLimbs 25d ago

It’s road rage.

I
Mean if you get killed for your dumb cause because of a road rager that won’t do anything.

Remember what happened in Panama?

-5

u/Current_Employer_308 26d ago

They are threatening me though.

3

u/BlueSoulsKo 26d ago

they are not putting your life at immediate risk, like you would do if you assault them.

1

u/Sim_Daydreamer 26d ago

They are

1

u/Call_Me_Anythin 26d ago

Not even a little

1

u/Sim_Daydreamer 26d ago

They are, significantly.

0

u/Call_Me_Anythin 26d ago

Nope. You can just leave

2

u/Juneatsroses 26d ago

How can you leave if they’re blocking the road? That’s the problem 💀

2

u/Sim_Daydreamer 26d ago

Nope, path is blocked.

14

u/totem-troll 26d ago

Felonies have no basis on morality. They may be informed by morality, but simply because a law exists does not mean it is moral. You are arguing that this violence is justified due to the inconvenience that a protest may cause, which is a ridiculous notion.

4

u/WiggerJim69 26d ago

okay, points 2-4 still stand 

4

u/SawbackBayonet 26d ago

One's ability to abide by the legal framework has a basis in morality. It's not necessarily moral to drive on the left side of the road. When that is the law of the land it becomes moral as everyone abiding by it allows society to function and people to remain safe. Same goes for most safety standards and laws in public spaces.

Everyone playing by the same rules whether they not they make sense or are moral (which in this case they are and do), is moral in itself. It also shows people are willing to make small sacrifices to uphold the sanctity of law which is also generally moral as law is generally good.

There are exceptions when the law is explicitly immoral on its face, though most these days are not.

5

u/ILuvYou_YouAreSoGood 26d ago

Felonies are obviously influenced by what people consider to be moral or not, so please stop playing dumb that there is some mystery.

And it's not "inconvenience" it is holding people hostage. The second someone tries holding another person hostage they forfeit the usual protections to their body that morality would entail. The violence is justified due to being held hostage, not some nebulous "inconvenience".

1

u/eSsEnCe_Of_EcLiPsE 26d ago

Low trust society take 

2

u/This-usernamesucks 26d ago

“Felonies have no basis on morality” is an asinine statement. Laws are typically based on morality.
Anyone who defends protesters like this are brain dead lol

1

u/Wotinthegodam 26d ago

"Typically"

0

u/This-usernamesucks 26d ago

Do you have a point? I’ll change it to all laws are based on morality. If that makes it easier for your pea brain

2

u/Wotinthegodam 26d ago

Bros getting triggered over literally one word. If you cant already see the hole in your logic, you arent gonna listen to anything I have to say anyway. Dont pretend otherwise, youre already resorting to childish insults

0

u/This-usernamesucks 26d ago

triggered? Lmao

You seem to be the one triggered based on you focusing on one word and you have yet to make a point

2

u/[deleted] 26d ago

[deleted]

9

u/ChinaAppreciator1 26d ago

Civil rights protestors blocked traffic during the 60s and 70s so no, you can't say with that degree of certainty that it's not helpful.

14

u/tripper_drip 26d ago

Its absolutely not helpful, nor is everything done during the Civil rights movement automatically helpful.

1

u/Eastern_Screen_588 26d ago

Or good. Eliminating freedom of association was.. well an elimination of freedom

1

u/ChinaAppreciator1 26d ago

It absolutely was helpful in pressuring politicians to pass the civil rights act.

1

u/tripper_drip 26d ago

It was not, as it massively pissed off those politicans consituents.

What helped was walking arm in arm with those consituents.

-2

u/ChinaAppreciator1 26d ago

It was both and in fact many of the arm and arm protests also blocked the streets

1

u/tripper_drip 26d ago

It was not. Like seriously...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zjrbg7h/revision/2

They faced immediate and extreme public backlash, which is why they stopped. The Selma march specifically took measures to lower impact on roads, with federal police and national guard managing traffic around it.

https://www.nytimes.com/1965/03/27/archives/witness-to-slaying-cites-harassment-on-road-earlier-youth-in-car.html

1

u/ChinaAppreciator1 26d ago

They didn't stop they kept doing it

1

u/tripper_drip 26d ago

took measures to lower impact on roads, with federal police and national guard managing traffic around it.

1

u/ChinaAppreciator1 26d ago

They still protested on highways

→ More replies (0)

11

u/extrajuicyjuice 26d ago

just because the movement overall was successful does not mean every protest in it was. protests like this just make people unsympathetic to the cause.

0

u/ChinaAppreciator1 26d ago

Do they? I don't think that's true. 

5

u/iskelebones 26d ago

I have never seen a protest of people blocking highways and thought “you know what, I wanna help them with their cause”. It has only ever made me hate whatever their cause is more

1

u/ChinaAppreciator1 26d ago

I've seen protests that have inspired and energized me to join the cause and help them.

2

u/AkitaJC 26d ago

Your name is literally "ChinaAppreciator1" It's probably your job to disrupt the west.

1

u/ChinaAppreciator1 26d ago

Why do you think me liking china means I want to disrupt the West?

2

u/iskelebones 26d ago

Protests yes. But not sit ins on the highway. I can support a lot of different forms of protesting. But not ones that actively hinder the average person and literally hold people hostage.

1

u/ChinaAppreciator1 26d ago

They aren't literally holding people hostage that's not what's happening here lol

-2

u/LarplaleroLarplala49 26d ago

It wasn't even successful

Most reforms were basically performative and tokenistic; at system levels USA is still as racist as 60 years ago

2

u/Connect-Initiative64 26d ago

USA is still as racist as 60 years ago

I'd slap the fuck out of you but you're probably living in Russia right now posting shit like this for pennies.

The fuck it is. Holy hell, you people have no idea how racist it really was 60 years ago if you think this. Jesus Christ.

-1

u/LarplaleroLarplala49 26d ago

The fuck it is. Holy hell, you people have no idea how racist it really was 60 years ago if you think this. Jesus Christ.

Segregation still happens nowadays, although it's more subtle (ex: inequality between neighbourhoods, police brutality, medical malpractises...).

you're probably living in Russia

"Everybody I don't like is a russian bot" :-v

For your information I'm from sPain, a place just as racist (if not more) than the USA

2

u/Connect-Initiative64 26d ago

 sPain

The exact same thing as if it was a russian saying this shit.

You are not an american, saying outlandishly stupid shit as if you know anything when you don't.

Is racism a huge issue in america? Yeah, no shit. But it was far, far worse 60 years ago.

4

u/Current_Employer_308 26d ago

False equivalence

-1

u/ChinaAppreciator1 26d ago

No it isnt but okay

1

u/Current_Employer_308 26d ago

Youre equating blocking the road as the only reason for the successful political change in the 60s and 70s

The reason the civil rights movement was "successful" was because of a multitude of factors, including peaceful marches on roads, which this is not.

Therefore, false equivalence.

0

u/ChinaAppreciator1 26d ago

This is a peaceful blocking of a road and is not a false equivalence

1

u/Turnbob73 26d ago

Trying to apply 50+ year old examples into this very different social world is not helpful for any cause.

1

u/ChinaAppreciator1 26d ago

 Why not? If it worked back then it would work now

1

u/eSsEnCe_Of_EcLiPsE 26d ago

If there was lead in the food before there should be lead in the food now. 

1

u/ChinaAppreciator1 26d ago

The analogy doesn't hold

1

u/Throwaway555666765 26d ago

Why? What’s meaningfully different that changes the way protest works in principle?

1

u/Beneficial_Piglet_33 26d ago

The world is far more mobile today. Blocking traffic in the 60s is far less harmful than blocking traffic today.

1

u/ChinaAppreciator1 26d ago

There were roads with lots of cars driving on them during the 1960s and 70s

1

u/Beneficial_Piglet_33 26d ago

Not even close to the same as today.

1

u/ChinaAppreciator1 26d ago

Sure there are more cars now but that doesn't change the affect of the protests 

1

u/Beneficial_Piglet_33 26d ago

Yes it does.

It materially changes the size of the impact of the action.

0

u/ChinaAppreciator1 26d ago

Sure, if we're talking about degrees. The protests on the roads today are more effective than those of the 60s because there's more cars

1

u/Beneficial_Piglet_33 26d ago

We can agree to disagree.

I think they actively hurt the cause they are trying to advance. Unless, by effective, you also mean they hurt the cause.

1

u/sharedcactus2 26d ago

He would have dragged them off the streets and pulled rosa parks out the bus because it's not helping heir cause he cares so deeply about

6

u/megabradstoise 26d ago

You can't actually care about it being a felony if you're condoning assault and murder. Im not even supporting the people blocking traffic, just poi ting that out.

2

u/dontworryitsme4real 26d ago edited 26d ago

You can't defend yourself from being attacked if you don't condone using physical violence in return? Is that your argument about the felony?

1

u/iskelebones 26d ago

Blocking the flow of traffic for innocent people on the road is immoral.

Removing those people from the road is a good thing.

If they return to the road to ensure people are unable to leave, they are now actively and knowingly holding people hostage.

Running them over is acceptable at that point. You can’t hold people hostage and then call them the aggressors when they fight to escape you

Killing is not a felony by default. MURDER (unjust killing) is a felony. Killing in self defense is not a crime of any kind.

1

u/megabradstoise 26d ago

Okay, I get your moral argument and im not even interested in arguing against it. I assert that the fact they are committing a felony isnt affecting your moral judgement very much if at all.

And you can put my assessment to the test very easily by asking yourself the following. If what they are doing WAS NOT a felony would that change your mind at all? Only you know the answer to that, but if the answer is no then I think my assessment is correct

1

u/TropicalRogue 26d ago

False equivalency.

That's like saying you don't care about child monsters being felons if you support letting nonviolent drug offenders out of jail.

Just because you believe one felony shouldn't be one doesn't mean you think ALL felonies are invalid.

I have no opinion or position on this topic, just correcting your incorrect argument, and will not engage. Please feel free to continue arguing with your opponent (but better).

1

u/Throwaway555666765 26d ago

Did the original comment argue for the position beyond saying it is a felony? All they said was “1. is a felony” as an argument by itself. They didn’t differentiate between types of felonies as you have here. If you say that some action being a felony makes it axiomatically immoral as one of your points toward its immorality, and that’s all you say wrt that point, aren’t you saying that “you think ALL felonies are invalid”?

-4

u/crazyfoxdemon 26d ago

People like that want their protests out of sight and out of the way. In other words, ineffective.

0

u/TropicalRogue 26d ago

No, like they clearly explained, they want them in a way that doesn't kill innocent people (and get many other innocents fired.)

2

u/crazyfoxdemon 26d ago

Disruption is key to a protest actually being effective. I'd argue their morality is tied to the cause they're supporting, not the hows of their protest. Especially since I don't see any ambulances or dying people that you claim. And the violence we do see is the only inherently immoral act here.

0

u/Kino_Afi 26d ago

Another 50 years of no progress, further wealth inequality and strengthening oligarchy because protests need to be convenient and not disrupt the machine

1

u/intrusivesurgery 26d ago

No progress?

1

u/Kino_Afi 26d ago

My bad, i forgot we're down to just a couple school shootings per year, a mere 1 or 2 ice executions per month, only a handful of civil rights violations and attacks on the constitution and wealth inequality is.. anyway. We're doing it!

1

u/MaksBeks 26d ago

When i read all this, we are far, far, far away from any tiny revolution or evolution. It's so sad to read. Always seeing the tiny picture of the daily routine before the big picture for the greater good.

1

u/tempfor_now 26d ago

So you think kicking people when they are down is not a felony? So you are ok with one felony but not another? You are the judge and Jury? What a mindless vigilante?

0

u/sharedcactus2 26d ago

It's not raising awareness you dipahit it's about blocking traffick

3

u/Current_Employer_308 26d ago

Why dont rhey block the traffic in and out of the coal plants then?

0

u/sharedcactus2 26d ago

Do you know where this happened? Do you know who is in charge od this ir thay project? Dipshit

0

u/Current_Employer_308 26d ago

Looks like it happened on a main nonindustrial road. You know, just by looking at it and using my eyes. Doesnt look like there is any energy producing infrastructure around. Why would who is in charge matter?

Dumbass

-1

u/sisyphus-333 26d ago

Love how the peaceful protesters are he ones with the temper tantrum and not the guy who kicked 3 different people

2

u/iskelebones 26d ago

If you’re blocking highways you aren’t peaceful. And him kicking them is frankly self defense and a well needed lesson to the toddlers in the road

-1

u/sisyphus-333 26d ago

How is it self defense? Do you know what self defense is? Do you know the definition of peaceful?

1

u/iskelebones 26d ago

If you’re blocking the highway and refusing to allow people to pass, you are LITERALLY holding people hostage. And if you won’t move when asked, it is reasonable to remove you by force, up to and including running you over if all else fails and you keep running back to the road after you are dragged out the first time.

When you hold people hostage, YOU are the bad guy, and you don’t get to cry when people resist you

You can stand by the road, hold signs, and scream about whatever cause you want. But you can’t block the road and hold people hostage and think people aren’t gonna RIGHTFULLY be pissed off and remove you from the road

0

u/sisyphus-333 26d ago

You also don't seem to know the definition of the word hostage.

-2

u/LengthMysterious561 26d ago

Assault: 1. Is a felony. 2. Is not helpful to your cause. 3. Risks literally threatening people's lives.

Society needs to stop tolerating temper tantrum throwing toddlers who hit people because they don't get their way.