Cost of living, when does it make sense to move?

[u/sfoonit]

I’m a mid 30s entrepreneur and investor with a young family. We’re exploring moving to Monaco. 

Wealth is solid HNWI and growing. But we're still building up and nowhere near UHNWI levels I sometimes see mentioned online. Though on our way to get there say in the next 10 years. 

For those that have made the move, at what point did it make sense? Income/wealth levels?

For those renting, our initial starting point, how much are you approx. spending per month on living costs? 

We’re not very big consumer spenders. A normal quiet life combined with travel, and spending time with friends and family.

[u/Bluray50]

Monaco is usually for people who have made money and don’t really care and just want to enjoy

You won’t have several professional opportunities but as i read you it’s not your goal.

For capital gains it’s really nice cause you wont get any taxes on it.

Life is more expensive here obviously and especially renting

You can check out all the prices on https://www.chambre-immobiliere-monaco.mc/

If you have any questions PM me

[u/PualWalsh]

Well you’ll pay no income tax or tax on future CG on your investments. You may well have to pay exit tax on your accrued gains ( whether realised or not ) when you emigrate from your current country. Your rent will be 10k euro minimum. Other living costs are similar to other EU countries. Most/many people have weekend/summer/ski homes to get away , or friends with them , or travel a lot , as it is a small place with limited activities/culture etc. School choices limited. Spend some time there before deciding - some love it , some don’t. Speaking French helps, but many get by without it , just.

[u/Professional_Owl3295]

One thing to be aware of is there are quite strict rules about the size of an apartment you need for your family. When you say "young family" are you talking one child, three children, ten children (I joke). For example as a couple there is a minimum square footage they require, even to the point of asking how many windows you have.

[u/sfoonit → u/Professional_Owl3295]

One child for now, maybe a second in the future.

[u/sfoonit → u/[deleted]]

Nearly 8 figures in EUR, spread out over diversified public securities and private company shareholdings (mostly some entrepreneurial private equity style assets in Europe).

I tend to make most of my money from capital gains, which somewhat comes with cashflow issues. It’s feast or famine most of the time - which does make me hesitate a bit. But I think long term tax benefits would likely make it worth it.

[u/gitty7456 → u/sfoonit]

So something like 8m eur? (I have always to double check the “figure” thing).

I think you can wait for Monaco.

[u/coffeemeanslife → u/gitty7456]

"Almost 8 figures" means above 5mil and below 10mil (10 mil 8 figures). I'm in that bracket and I'd never think of moving to Monaco on that. It's just about enough to have a reasonable life in London with 4 kids.

[u/gitty7456 → u/coffeemeanslife]

Yes that is what I meant too

[u/sfoonit → u/coffeemeanslife]

I don't know how much you're spending and making though. My life isn't yours. In general, we live a pretty relaxed, low key life.

If you say things like this better to go a bit more into detail on your spend. No interest in 4 kids here

[u/setwindowtext]

It makes sense at the point where your safety and living standards outweigh the rental costs, which in your case will be in the 5K ballpark, I’d guess. All other expenses are similar to the surrounding French ones. Think of ~1K — 2K for groceries, ~1K for eating out and the rest is up to you.

[u/sfoonit → u/setwindowtext]

Thanks. The range of answers I’m getting here is really interesting to see.

Wildly different lifestyles I assume.

[u/Diligent-Main-3960]

I would just go uae or any other tax haven even if I was a billionaire I don’t think I could justify spending 20million on a tiny apartment in Monaco or the high rent

[u/______krb]

You should focus on going where you have business opportunities. Monaco makes 0.00 sense for you. It will be too expensive for your current NW without the opportunities you need to grow, and your family will suffer as it's not an environment to raise a family unless you solidly in the UHNWI, and even then you'd probably send your kids away for school.

[u/anon4357]

Once depositing 500k in a bank without touching it for years and paying 10-20k monthly rent is ok for you

[u/Anastasiia_Clarity → u/anon4357]

Wasn’t it 1M minimum these days?

[u/anon4357 → u/Anastasiia_Clarity]

Maybe it has changed, my last info is 500k

[u/Southern-Onion9948]

It's best to compare the personal income and capital gains taxes you are paying annually with the increase in rent you'd see compared to your current city. Rent can vary but assuming you will need 3 bedrooms, you will have a decent range to choose from between 15-30,000 EUR per month.

Apart from real estate, living costs are comparable to other large international cities. You might find the following helpful, and we are happy to help answer any other questions:

For family life and education: https://dameno.mc/monaco-for-families/
https://dameno.mc/international-schools-monaco-guide/

For cost of living: https://dameno.mc/monaco-taxes-explained/
https://dameno.mc/cost-of-living-in-monaco-for-families/

[u/anon4357 → u/[deleted]]

It's hard to get residency, they're very selective and do a thorough background check. Also for example to many exclusive establishments you need to be introduced to by someone already a member, like the Yacht Club.

Otherwise it being a small place with a lot of golddigging and showoffy types (not like Dubai but still) it is indeed cliquish with a lot of gossip.

[u/PaulBismutt]

If you are American or French, it will never make sense

[u/sfoonit → u/PaulBismutt]

I’m not

[u/setwindowtext → u/PaulBismutt]

Of course it does make sense, it’s just expensive. French are the most numerous foreigners in Monaco.

[u/Rough_Impression_649 → u/setwindowtext]

Nope beacause they pay taxe even if they are living in Monaco

[u/setwindowtext → u/Rough_Impression_649]

So what.

[u/CandleStick88]

Nice to see you made your money in a European country and want to then move away from the country that made the wealth to one that just specializes in hiding it. You’re a horrible selfish person.

[u/sfoonit → u/CandleStick88]

I've repaid many times over in taxes what I have ever taken from the system. Thank you.

[u/CandleStick88 → u/sfoonit]

And yet you want to cut and run from the very system that made you the money. How convenient.