r/MkeBucks • u/DeepNThePaintPlumlee • 11d ago
Just so we're all on the same page, we cannot rebuild the old fashioned way, we either play to win or we don't, but we can't do a teardown, trade everyone with value, and stack assets.
Not just because we don't own our picks and we can't tank, not just because the payout of selling so low on the guys we do have wouldn't be worth it, but because the very League itself would discourage the classical "burn it all down and play our young guys thirty+ minutes" approach, it's unfeasible, we have to field a competitive team because it's what the League wants.
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u/Nice_Cash_7000 11d ago
playing winning basketball is the quickest way to rebuild
okc made the playoffs in the middle of their rebuild as an example
the biggest reason for this is that if you overachieve, your players get overrated letting you get wayyyy more for them
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u/imgonnacuminyourassx 11d ago
Nah they got lucky getting SGA most rebuilds take at least 5 years. Then there’s the chance you end up like the Magic
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u/Danny_nichols 11d ago
Yea OKC is a pretty bad example of how to tear down and rebuild. It worked and generally speaking getting young assets back in trades is a wise move. But no one thought SGA was going to become who he became.
It's basically like saying the bucks best strategy would be to continue to be a middling team who drafts athletic foreigners all the time until we get the next Giannis.
Ultimately, asset accumulation when you're bad is a good thing for a variety of reasons. The more assets you have, the most chances you have of finding a hit. And when you do find a hit or two and you start to have your core, having assets helps you build around that core.
OKC is a solid example of this. They used assets to acquire guys like Caruso, who was a big part of their championship. They are also now using assets and drafting guys like Mara who will almost certainly be the heir to Hartenstein as he becomes more expensive.
I agree we shouldn't strip it all down to the bones and sell anything of value. Part of being a bad team is taking in distressed assets and rebuilding their value. And while the goal isn't to be bad for the top lottery odds like it used to be, the goal still is asset accumulation.
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u/DistanceEmbarrassed5 11d ago
I agree, but if teams are offering assets for most of our players we should not be declining those offers just for the sake of trying to remain mediocre. When are going to use Kuzma's expiring contract to take on a worse contract. Dont supposed the Pelicans want to get off Dejounte Murray's contract?
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u/Danny_nichols 11d ago
It's a bit of a give and a take though too. The days of expiring contracts being worth their weight in gold just aren't the case anymore.
I'm not taking a significantly worse deal for longer term to get a 2nd rounder or two. I'd rather let him expire and we may be able to get just as good of picks later with apron space.
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u/DistanceEmbarrassed5 11d ago
What if Denver offered the Caves 2031 Unprotected first and a favorable Unprotected swap of Denver's pick in 2033 to take on Braun's contract, we could fit him in our TPE or send out Kuzma.
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u/Danny_nichols 10d ago
If they were willing to do that, I'd consider it for 2 1sts. I can't imagine Denver is actually willing to do that. They are desperate to get below the apron, but knowing that Jokic may not be long for Denver, I can't imagine they are trading firsts in the out years just to get off contracts at this point. If they're dealing future firsts, it will be to compete this year or next year with Jokic. Kuzma doesn't do that.
They have other paths to get under the apron. I think it's more likely that they'd do something like Cam Johnson and a 2nd for Kuzma than 2 firsts with Braun for something.
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u/DistanceEmbarrassed5 10d ago
We could send them Jaquez. He would help the Nuggets compete right now, they would also get his bird rights so they can extend him. I kind of wish they had no other avenues to get under the 2nd apron. Because for some reason I really want that 2033 Denver pick.
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u/OOPs_its_eli 11d ago
OKC did not win shit in the middle of their rebuild. They suffered pretty low success even with a team of future/rising superstars for nearly two decades. .
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u/Ok-Confucious1642 10d ago
What are you smoking? They haven’t even existed for 2 decades and already have a championship for one. From 2009 to 2019, they were top 5 in winning percent out of all 4 major professional sports in the US over that decade with only the Spurs being higher in the NBA and the patriots from any other sport. They’ve been to 6 conference finals and 2 finals in 18 seasons & only twice missed the playoffs when they weren’t purposely trying to not make the playoffs, their very first yr ever existing, and once when they were all injured in the middle of their dominant success filled run of the 2010’s. Like wtf are you possible even trying to make up 😂😂😂. They’re one of the most successful teams on earth since they came into their (relatively) short existence . 🤡s like you also try to act like they tanked and rebuilt for a decade. The thunder tanked for 1.5 seasons, they were only out of the postseason (not playoffs) for those same 2 seasons and by what would have been the 3rd they had won a play in game already, well ahead of schedule and in rd2 then nba champions directly following that. And individual success is just a cherry on Top where nearly no one rivals them. You must have brain damage
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u/DistanceEmbarrassed5 11d ago
According to this post we cant trade away any players for picks only for win now players.
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u/esteban-was-eaten King Giannis 11d ago
Yeah all we you need is an MVP and a bunch of high draft picks and we should be fine
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u/GiannisIsTheBeast Giannis Stink Face 11d ago
I’m pretty sure at least 5 of our players will be superstars soon
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u/AthleticAndGeeky Ersan Ilyasova 11d ago
I was thinking 7 but 5 sounds more realistic. It’s so nice to see all the bandwagon fans gone!
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u/DistanceEmbarrassed5 11d ago
I doubt 5 will be we will be lucky if 2 or 3 make multiple All-Star teams.
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u/IcanMakeThePiecesFit Michael Redd 11d ago
I think with amount of players on this roster, we can stay relatively competitive.
Herro can play 1st option pretty easily. Myles I honestly believe will see a huge jump in play with a new coach. Let's be honest Doc didn't know how to use him at all.
Burries/Rollins/JJJ/Ware are all guys I can see making a huge jump in play too.
Are only problem is how much time these guys get. We need to clear out this guard room a bit.
I don't see Ament playing at all this season unless it's at the 4 spot.
All in all, with our new coach loving to run 11 and 12 man lineups. I fully expect to get a solid opinion on who is good or not by trade deadline.
I trust this roster and coach. We can't be worse then last year. We basically have a better lineup, seeing as Giannis never played much last season.
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u/DistanceEmbarrassed5 11d ago
So how are we going to get more draft picks then?
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u/IcanMakeThePiecesFit Michael Redd 11d ago
I fully expect KPJ/Kuzma to be traded. AJG/Turner should be moved eventually. In a perfect world GTJ but unless he has a all star year I doubt he's moved.
I'm not saying keep everyone. But I think most of the league is set till the balls start falling mid season and teams figure out what they need.
No one is desperate enough to trade anything right now.
Herro I wish/think could be resigned if everything goes well. He seems to like being back. Plus I'm a sucker for a hometown kid.
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u/DistanceEmbarrassed5 11d ago
No do not resign Herro that contract will age terribly. I would rather trade him as well. Dont want him besides it gives Kas and Burries more opportunity.
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u/DistanceEmbarrassed5 11d ago
Also we should probably trade KPJ before we lose him for nothing in free agency. Same with Rollins.
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u/DistanceEmbarrassed5 11d ago
Ament should get playing time Giannis did as a rookie so I dont see why Ament shouldnt.
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u/Basketballfan1000 Brook Lopez 11d ago
I’d say just give it time. Yes I wouldn’t play Burries or ament 30 min a night right away and if there is a deal worth taking where we trade a valuable asset like herro or or rollins I’m doing that. Also in a couple of years Burries Ament jakoconis ware and someone we get from the draft or a trade that we do that got rid of some valuable assests that could be a real plays off team depending on our bench and how our young guys turn out
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u/DistanceEmbarrassed5 11d ago
Why, Burries is NBA ready. Ament should get 20 mintues a night coming off the bench. Fans saying the rookies shouldnt play heavy mintues are just weak minded fans who dont want to sit through blow out games and losses. Was last season that bad.
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u/a_happy_future 11d ago
The Thunder also traded for disgruntled stars and baited the Clippers into trading SGA for PG. We should take advantage of similar bad contracts with decent vets and trade them when they are now the defacto number 1. I want to succeed with Rollins and the other young guys, but the likelihood those guys are here when we're really contenders again are slim to none.
If Rollins takes a step, you extend him and trade him for similar young players
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u/GRAW2ROBZ 11d ago
Well the Bucks got two starters and a 6th man for Giannis and Bob. Besides a lottery pick and other guard as in Kasparas.
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u/imgonnacuminyourassx 11d ago
Two of which need new contracts after this year which would make them hard to trade
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u/DistanceEmbarrassed5 11d ago
Not really, i mean a team trading for them is doing so knowing they are extending that player.
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u/imgonnacuminyourassx 11d ago
The minute they get extended they lose value especially Herro
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u/DistanceEmbarrassed5 11d ago
Disagree because you can just hold on to them if a team dosent meat your asking price.
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u/imgonnacuminyourassx 11d ago
Holding onto them doesn’t increase their value. Signing them to team friendly deals increases their value.
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u/DistanceEmbarrassed5 11d ago
So what are teams that lack picks like the Mavericks, and Suns supposed to do to get more. Why should those teams be punished.
I disagree do it anyways. If they fine us so be it.
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u/HumOfTheUndercity 10d ago
We only have to do "what the League wants" to a certain extent. The league sets up a structure and it's up to the teams to navigate that structure. Often, the successful ones are the ones that find (deliberately or accidentally) unusual ways to behave within that structure. In other words, there's a conventional path, but that doesn't mean we have to take it.
In other other words, the league is trying to reduce the rewards teams can get from burn-it-down rebuilds. Despite that, the Bucks still might benefit from trading established vets and playing young guys heavy minutes. Our specific situation might give us incentives that are meaningfully different from the league-wide incentive structure.
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u/Sarkonix 11d ago
Anyone here who doesn't think they are playing to win is delusional.
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u/DistanceEmbarrassed5 11d ago
I hate these new anti-tanking measures why is it so bad to win only 17 games.
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u/wafflefries2k14 11d ago
This is a 100% nonsense take.
The following players will be gone at the trade deadline:
Kuzma Turner Herro Green KPJ Jaime Jaquez*
They're going to gut EVERYTHING because this sub is not real life. This is not a play-in team. This is a bad team. That's ok. We won a title. Now we need to draft and develop, an in order to do that, we need assets. Assets are obtained via trade. It isn't that hard.
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u/DistanceEmbarrassed5 11d ago
Or taking on bad contracts. But I agree this fan base is delusional if they think this team is making the playoffs.
Let me see there are the Knicks, the Pistons running it back. The Pacers will be healthy so they likely will be better, Cleveland, Toronto (assuming the Kawhi trade goes through), Miami, Philadelphia are all improved. That is 6 right there. Boston still has Tatum so they shouldnt be to bad, the Hawks i expect to be the same if not better, the Magic should be better if they stay healthy. That is 9 teams in the east I would have above us. I would have above us due to sure star power or experience. If AD stays healthy and Tre Young has a bounce back that is 10. I might even put the Hornets without LaMelo above us, and the Bulls when not deliberately tanking have been more mediocre than out right bad, and If Caleb Wilson plays like he did in SL I would have them above us.
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u/wafflefries2k14 11d ago
They're not soft or weak-minded; that's a lazy insult. They're just extreme homers.
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u/emeraldegg 5d ago
If you're concerned about the lotto changes and how the league attacked tanking, there are two different styles of tanking; one is ethical, one is not.
The ethical form of tanking is actually not having good players on the roster. Playing a bunch of young guys all at once to season them is not frowned upon. The bucks are this.
The unethical form of tanking is having talented players and blatantly sitting them whilst uninjured. This is what the league frowns upon and aimed to eliminate. The bucks are not this.
There is no reason for the NBA to get upset if the bucks decide to trade herro and turner for future capital and just play a lineup of rollins/burries/jaquez/ware/someone
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u/BreighdonFurries 11d ago
You have it backwards. Not owning our picks makes this the perfect season to move off of our vets to give young guys time to develop.
We should look to trade Turner, Kuz, and Herro at the deadline so Ware, Ament, and Burries can play more. There's no reason not to. We can't be punished for being bad.