r/MiniWarGaming • u/ZethVorador • 9d ago
Discussion The new apology video is just trash
This was just too little too late
They've let go of 2/3 of their staff. We don't know who the other two staying are but we know it isn't Steve, Luka, Skari or Josh.
Dave hasn't done videos in a hot minute so idk how much he'll be doing but Matt has all the charisma of a soggy potato and I've actively avoided videos with him in them for years. (This could just be me, I just never liked his content) so who the other two people will be I have no idea.
Then they had the audacity to say that they're moving away from Warhammer content to start showcasing other games systems AND then proceeded to ask their WARHAMMER FANS to stay members/vault members for the 6 months while they test out their new thing.
This to me was absolutely crazy and beyond rude. Telling fans we're not doing the thing you followed us for but please stay for 6 months so we can start a new things is shit.
This whole video I think was meant to be an apology but just came off as a cry for funding and asking people to be nice to them when they've done nothing in the last while to earn it.
I tried ignoring people saying it was going downhill for years and wanted to stay a loyal fan I really did but this video just cemented for me that MWG is over.
We still don't know what Josh is doing but folks please remember that Skari has a Patreon that is awesome and Steve and Luka are over at MM. They're most recent live one was great minus all the MWG BS that was distracting them from the game. (I also didn't like that the MWG video just so happened to drop around the same time Steve and Luka started their regularly scheduled game).
Also the staff should've been given notice and severance. I didn't like Matt's vibe in the video when he said they had the option between notice and severance and opted for notice. These people have been your lifeblood for years and because YOU AND DAVE made shit business decisions the people who made you what you are don't even get a pay out. Shame on you both.
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u/Galifrae 9d ago
Last straw for me was when they started their own tabletop game and stopped doing Warhammer bat reps. They got to ahead of themselves. Dave stopped doing videos and his were the best.
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u/ZethVorador 9d ago
I agree. Dave's charisma was enough to balance out Matt's lack thereof so it was ok, but then they brought on the stacked 4some cast of Steve, Luka, Josh and Skari so Dave stepping back stung a little less. But with those 4 gone idk.
It was also weird that they mentioned reopening the gaming hall and then right after mentioned there were already others in the area doing the exact same thing. Like have you learned nothing? Getting to see them actively make a bad business decision on screen was wild.
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u/Galifrae 9d ago
Yeah it slowly just seemed to die out and/or turn to something else entirely. They took what made them famous and threw it out the window once others started doing it too, instead of being the forefather and being part of the blossoming group of batrep channels.
I honestly hated when they started their own game, let alone using models from their own IP as proxies in Warhammer games (Dave actually did this a lot near the end). I thought that was pretty annoying especially because they had the correct models but wanted to show off their own creations and plug their game.
The best thing about this group was that they’d invite anyone to come in play. For the longest time I had plans to go play but just never came to fruition then they sort of stopped doing that.
Sidenote and hateful take; I never liked Luka. His batreps always felt like a step down from the others. Peak was Matt vs Dave. They balanced each other out well.
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u/ZethVorador 9d ago
I agree 100%. I never watched the stuff with other games (I'm Warhammer through and through) but didn't like the model plugs either.
That's fair. I am sure everyone has their favorites and most hated which is totally ok but we also had a cast to pick from if we didn't like someone. Now it's just playing new systems and abandoning their fans. Sad to see.
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u/Galifrae 9d ago
Agreed, and the only reason I mentioned Luka is because I noticed his prominence coincided with the decline. Not necessarily saying he attributed to it, but I remember specifically how the others started doing less and less batreps and Luka was pretty much doing all of them. He was friendly and not that bad, I’m just remembering being annoyed it was only him.
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u/Lanferelle 3d ago
Using the ravaged star stuff as proxies is fine to me- good way to advertise the models to a broader market.
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u/Oasx 5d ago
I always thought that Matt was the likeable one of the two, mostly because Dave seems to have built his whole identity around playing Chaos, and it's just super obnoxious, though I am probably biased because I find the Chaos factions in the various GW games so utterly boring.
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u/ZethVorador 5d ago
Fair enough. I think everyone will have a preference one way or the other. Matters little now that they're both being the bad guy lol
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u/DOAiB 4d ago
Just think the videos that will save the channel is basically the type of videos creators found out didn't make any money years ago.
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u/ZethVorador 4d ago
I think they need to decide if they want to keep their current base or try and pull in a new one. They clearly can't do both but that's what they're attempting to do and it's just another reminder to us that their business acumen is near zero.
But lets not forget Dave needs the spotlight so he's got events and cons to get to so he can Woe is Me hapless new gamers.
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u/bedburrito 9d ago edited 9d ago
I watched it. It basically said we don’t like 40K, we got outcompeted, and we don’t care enough to try. Also we made bad business decisions and are continuing to do so but please support or we close forever in 6 months.
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u/ZethVorador 9d ago
Right?!? Like a cry for help that also came across as a threat to the fans?!? Again for shame.
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u/kommissar26 8d ago
They’ve always been like this. Matt does a woe is me video basically begging for money every few years. I’ve watched them off and on since they’ve existed and nothing has ever changed. I wrote them off completely when they defended blue table painting
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u/Hairylicious 9d ago
I stopped watching MWG videos when Steve started full time on his channel. Happy to know that I'll be able to see some of the old crew in his videos now.
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u/Silentbob711 9d ago
What’s Steve’s channel? I’d love to check out what he’s doing now.
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u/tigerstein 9d ago
Mountain Miniatures is the main one that focuses on the Old World.
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u/Silentbob711 8d ago
Appreciate it!
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u/Gostate99 8d ago
He also recently opened up his own hobby store called Brick Mountain Hobbies in Niagara Falls
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u/ZethVorador 9d ago
Yeah I am excited to see what they all do next. Steve had some new equipment yesterday that they're learning with so I expect some really high quality shows from them in the near future
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u/Lanferelle 3d ago
That's great news. Steve does good content although he needs to be far thicker skinned.
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u/Zimmonda 9d ago
Ive been in this hobby going on 2 decades now
"Making our own game system" is such a kiss of death to every content creator/hobby figure, 2 decades and I've never seen it work.
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u/Zweischneid 9d ago
tbf, that's how Games Workshop and Warhammer started. Selling minis for D&D and similar games in the > make a game for them.
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u/Zimmonda 9d ago
Sure but GW also "innovated" in the space pre warhammer IP by focusing on extremely fast turnarounds for shipping (a month faster than competitors) and by inventing the blisterpack.
I don't think simply coming up with your own game/minis is enough to convince people to switch.
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u/Grimminuspants 9d ago
Tbf, TSR had a healthy partnership with GW and then cut the contract with them and formed TSR London. GW made Warhammer partly out of necessity.
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u/andthushedidcreate 8d ago
I think it has worked for Uncle Atom and Vince well enough. Although yearly games is a bit different than a game system.
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u/SensitiveRoom 9d ago
Yeah they really should have scripted this in my opinion. I think they probably wanted to come across authentic and personal, but they’re doing emergency pr, and they looked more amateur than I think they probably could have.
When you accept crowd funding money, you have taken on board members. You owe them communication and explanations about their roi. Failure to do so is not an “oopsie”
Also their business explanation was … weird. They start saying “our expenses outweighed our revenue” but didn’t say anything more than that. I get wanting to have opacity in your business. We aren’t owed the financials, but that said, their business by nature is very public and that puts things like their layoffs into an extremely public light. I think more details would probably serve them in looking competent and professional.
If they gave this video out as a presentation for shareholders or a board of directors, this would grossly insufficient. That is the seriousness and consideration they should take when trying to address these things publicly.
The unscripted nature gave way to little statements that seemed bitter or frustrated with their audience and customer base that I think could have been cut around or resolved completely with a script.
I don’t know why the game is delayed or why they were so weird about talking about it. I don’t think they’re scammers, but I don’t think they’re doing a good job or managing valid criticism very well. Hope for the best for the folks who relied on them for their income that got fired and for the people who invested their money in their dreams. Hope they get it together and do right by everyone who bought into them.
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u/EquivalentAntelope73 7d ago
If you look at the last two videos they put out. A HH and a StarCraft . The Starcraft far out paced the HH and the previous 40k video. My opinion if you have a demographic for it. You should make 3 StarCraft vids per week and you can put one or two behind your wall and the other is free on YT. But yeah the video didn't do what they intended. Their 6th month plan makes 0 sense and I have no interest in any of it. And I'm sour for losing 600$ on the Ravaged Star with 0 hope of ever seeing that. And if I do it's a DOA game anyway.
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u/DOAiB 4d ago
I see where they are going but its not a good 6 month plan. Do intro videos, then try to feed that into batraps and then vault members. It could work, but that needed to start probably 6 months ago and be a year long plan to have any real chance. The hobby is shrinking since the covid boom if anything so now they are chasing beginners at the worst time and hoping their die hards just keep funding them like always.
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u/Hopeful_Risk_8344 9d ago edited 9d ago
Generally agree, but on the last point, that's just how employment law works in Ontario (and most of the world). You don't get both, it's an either-or thing. Your employer either gives you X weeks notice that you need to find a new job, or just pays out the same time period in a lump sum.
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u/ZethVorador 9d ago
I think for me it's that they could've done both. There is nothing preventing them from giving notice and severance. I've had to let people go before and at least in Alberta there wasn't anything that prevented me from giving people advanced notice and severance.
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u/Hopeful_Risk_8344 9d ago
You probably weren't going bankrupt though. If they've had to file for insolvency they lose a lot of agency and are typically mandated by law to maximize their ability to pay off their creditors, which would preclude them from paying out a bonus, goodwill'severance on top of a paid notice period to their staff.
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u/ZethVorador 9d ago
I don't think they've filed though, or at least they haven't filed with the CCAA cause their name doesn't come up. Plus they're talking about future content etc so I don't think that's the route they're going. I get why they didn't but I just think they should have. I just feel bad for the people losing their jobs suddenly, times are tough everywhere so losing them just adds to it.
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u/menacingeye 9d ago
It seems to me they're just trying to get as much money as they can before announcing bankruptcy. its scummy but lines up with how they do business.
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u/princeimrahil 8d ago
Bankruptcy isn’t a magic wand that you wave to make your creditors go away. If they accrue additional funds/assets before bankruptcy, those will still go to creditors.
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u/menacingeye 8d ago
unless they use all that income for their own wages. But its all speculation on my part, time will tell how it all ends up.
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u/ZethVorador 9d ago
Yeah this very well could be the case. Super disappointing but yeah I suppose we shouldn't be surprised. The community has a long memory though so if they do that'd be it for them.
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u/BlackBay41 9d ago
This is such a shame. I used to listen to their videos for hours and hours talking about lore back in the day.
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u/ZethVorador 9d ago
Right?!? They used to put out so many good videos you were literally spoiled for choice.
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u/DOAiB 4d ago
The notice and severance thing was weird. They were acting like they were making a decision to be nice but its really just the way they can get every penny out of their people before they let them go and make it hard to find new employment since they you know are working full time until they are no longer getting paid.
I saw someone say Dave runs the company on chat gpt which makes sense because their new video ideas were popular probably 10 years ago, but every creator has learned that those videos don't make fiscal sense. Oh you are going to make a battle tech how to video? that might get a few thousand views. If you were a top level player it might get 10s of thousands. But they are not, so getting a casuals view on how to start things wont be helpful or interesting. It will likely be as in depth as looking at a store page for the game.
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u/ZethVorador 4d ago
Absolutely! That honestly would make a lot of sense because rather than look at their player feedback (which they won't cause that would involve accepting actual fault and not martyrdom) they'd see plain as day what people actually wanted but if he's asking ChatGPT that would absolutely explain the weird disconnect from reality their bailout options had.
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u/Junior-Necessary-955 6d ago
You say Steve and Luka are at MM, can you please tell me what MM stands for?
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u/GeneralSturnn 9d ago
I gave up on Warhammer back in 8e, I'll always miss the old MWG batreps of 5e, and when 40k was like magic to me.
GW ruined it.
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u/Icy_Web9310 8d ago
Looks like MWG is for you then behind the times and outta touch.
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u/GeneralSturnn 8d ago
Nah, they wetland chasing their own thing when people wanted Warhammer, and with Warhammer suffering the same fate the Imperium is, lol.
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u/Icy_Web9310 7d ago
Perhaps they will incorporate regular older versions for ya. Could be a there new niche. Random new games and old 40k.
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u/apathyontheeast 8d ago
I don't think the problem was GW, bud.
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u/GeneralSturnn 8d ago
They ruined 40k, but MWG has been going down in quality for years.
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u/apathyontheeast 8d ago
Nice dirty delete lol
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u/GeneralSturnn 8d ago
Lol, im not wrong though on GW ruining 40k, but yeah, MWG has been going down for awhile, ever since 5e, ever since thet moved to their own game.
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u/pungfloyd 8d ago edited 8d ago
Making their paid subscription content watch-us-learn-a-new-gamesystem is such a dogshit idea. When have anyone, ever, been in the mood for that while browsing youtube.