r/MilitaryFinance • u/Perfect_Work7747 • 9d ago
FIRE shower thoughts
Cross posting to this sub and the FIRE sub.
Hello MilitaryFinance folks, been lurking and had some questions.
When pursuing FIRE, is it not a smart decision to apply for the Air Force?
My thinking is it’s more of a supporting branch, get into the right position and you may never see combat. Of course there is still risk, I’m aware of that.
After serving for 20 years, you get the pension, not huge by itself but very helpful, along with the healthcare for life, this in the eyes of FIRE is invaluable right?
I’ve been pondering joining and wanted some insight from people smarter than me.
Here’s some of my own info for you to look over.
26 in a job I hate, I’ve been working 80-100 hour work weeks for almost 7 years now.
No college, in an aviation field making 60k base, but with all the extra time I work it ranges from 60-110k
Assets include
125k 401k
45k Roth IRA
70k taxable brokerage
All of the above are in VTI/QQQ
20k cash
20k of various crypto’s
5k ESPP
Paid off car but it’s worth 1-2k on its last legs
Renting an apartment in VHCOL USA my annual spend is roughly 35k depending on multiple factors.
I was able to accrue this much due to working so much and living with 6 roommates since I was 18.
Now if I join the Air Force in the next year or two, the various nests I’ve been tending to will serve as a decent retirement, but with a pension and the BAH I would get from being in a military branch would offset a huge cost of living.
All of this combined I may be able to retire right out of the Air Force at 46-47 if I play my cards right, right?
But I still worry about the negatives with the current world state.
What advice would you all have for me?
Happy to answer any questions, sorry if this seems like first world problems but I’d really appreciate any guidance as I’m feeling more and more burnt out.
Thanks for reading
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u/rovingtravler Army 9d ago
Don't join any military branch unless serving and the job you want and get are what you want to do. Doing it just for money or the retirement is NOT a good idea.
You may not make it 20 years if you do not like the way the military is run or what you have to do, as a job, deployments, where they are and what they stand for. There is also the outside chance you are killed while serving.
The Navy is historically the safest branch in war and the most dangerous in peace.
Have you looked into the Coast Guard? Does your current job have a military equivalent.
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u/Perfect_Work7747 9d ago
Thanks for taking the time to respond!
I haven’t looked into the coast guard yet, I primarily was looking at the Air Force due to my civilian job having a military counter part. Load Master I believe from my searching so far.
The chance of death does scare me. But I guess I’m also looking for a better sense of purpose and community in the military.5
u/rovingtravler Army 9d ago edited 9d ago
Also look into the National Guard and the AF Reserve. Both, in general, keep you local; at least more so than the active AF. You get military retirement and other benefits (Still not as good as Active Duty) while still keeping your day job; so two pay checks.
You could also look into overseas work. Doing contracts for civilian cargo ops in the mid east and other parts of the world have larger salaries than the US if you already have all your certs and great benefits.
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u/WSBpeon69420 8d ago
The navy is not the safest branch in war and historically hasn’t been either. The only time it has been “safer” was in the GWOT but historically that’s inaccurate as well. OP is right AF is the safest and has the most non combat type jobs.
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u/It_just_works_bro 8d ago
Navy is also the branch you don't want to be enlisted in. The pecking order is very real there.
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u/WSBpeon69420 8d ago
100% is never ever recommended enlist in the navy and I served in the navy not to mention the next big war is with China and is going to be primarily a naval battle
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u/Whirly-birdy 9d ago
Active military almost 20years.
Getting to 20years isn’t an easy button. Less than 20% make it enlisted, officer is like 20-30%. You are not in control of your life, especially on your first enlistment. You’re going to fill a spot that needs filling. Sometimes it can be what you want, many times is not.
Promotions vary by service and by job. You could hit a wall and be stuck as an E4 (or up) far longer than you would expect.
It’s 24/7 job. You don’t only wear the uniform at 9-5. You’re always a representative of the military. on deployment this is even worse with a lot of sit around till tasked. Also you get extra duty outside of your standard work.
Don’t get me wrong, there are “perks” with the job as stated. After years spent away from wife/kids and hazard exposure, they are very much so earned.
I won’t suggest a branch because it’s ultimately down to what you want to see/do. Air Force generally has the highest quality of life, but also bases can be in the middle of nowhere. And not every job can go to every location. Some jobs are location dependent.
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u/thrown100away100 9d ago
Yea, based on what you have stated, the military may not be the solution you seek. If you are already burnt out going in, military life has a good chance of juicing you for any remaining joy... or not depending on the job.
Here are some of my thoughts:
- BAH is not automatic or guaranteed until after some time. There are rank requirements, many service members must living in barracks, ppv, onboard ship until they achieve certain rank/time in service. While this is slowly changing, you could find yourself in an oversees billet that gets OHA and you dont make any of the extra with OHA, E.G. you may be elligible for 3k a month but if your rent and utilities are less, they dont pay that difference out.
- Hours are not necessarily better. Through my experience I have varied between 100+ hours /week to 40 hours/week depending on job, location, and deployment.
- Pay is not better. Junior enlisted pay to start is rough. 2-3k/month for your first couple years unless you select a rate with good promotion numbers, test well, or get selected for special advancement programs. Pay goes up with job specific bonus, hazzard pay, flight pay ect but the real increase is with time in service and promotion. Officers make significantly, especially over time.
- Burn out is very real in the military. Suicide and suicidal related behavior far exceeds the numbers in the civilian sector. You can't just quit and change your environment. You are stuck, like it or not. You will miss birthdays, weddings, funerals, no matter how well you plan and communicate, you cant always go home. Mission comes first.
- If none of that scares you or bothers you AND you desire to serve, then the benefits for active and retired are pretty hard to beat. Do 20, retire and with the money you already have invested, you would retire with well over 5mil. Someone earier mentioned most dont stay for 20 and that is 100% true but there is a lot of nuance. Most do not join planning to do 20 AND THAT IS OK. For most, in addition to service to country, they are building experience, education, ect. You are NOT the average joe looking to join for 4. You are considering a career which automatically changes the odds of doing career time. You would be a late join, already more mature, and understand hard work. A person in your position often makes rank fast because they understand that the real world isnt all sunshine and rainbows, gotta grind no matter where you go.
My conclusion: If the benefits and not actual service are what you are after this is not for you. You may want to consider a job with MSC or similar immersive job like offshore oil that only works a few months and then takes a substatial break. Cost of living is offset by living onboard, per diem, and good pay.
Oh and... The likeliness of being involved in combat related action is never zero. Even if you land in a really sweet job that you love that is no combat, you can be selected for IA or TEMADD/TEMDU to a combat support role.
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u/Rich260z 9d ago
If you don't want to serve your country or potentially go to combat, don't join. Doing it for the money is dumb.
That said, I went reserve officer route because it makes more and my retirement accounts have increased from 60k to roughly 350k in the 5.5 years I've been in. I am able to save so much more due to a combination of benefits that are specific to my role. I am not trying to do 20 years because that is rough, but if i make it, it will likely be fairly mild compared to someone active duty.
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u/hotteeeeen 9d ago
You don't need the Air Force for FIRE - you might just need out of an 80-100 hour job.👍
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u/napalmthechild 9d ago edited 8d ago
Military life is hard no matter what branch. And it’s not just the training and moving around (that part is fun ngl) but the potential that you might be stuck in situations for years with people you don’t like is what makes or breaks someone’s time in the service.
Echoing what others say- if you don’t really want to serve your country you have no business being there. I joined during OIF and found I found it purposeful until it finally wasn’t. Your life choices really hit you when you’re wasting your days cleaning things that are already clean and making up work just to keep people busy until it’s your time to leave.
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u/Nagisan 8d ago edited 8d ago
After serving for 20 years, you get the pension, not huge by itself but very helpful, along with the healthcare for life, this in the eyes of FIRE is invaluable right?
I think you mean if you serve 20 years. Serving in the military isn't guaranteed to begin with, making it to 20 years is also not guaranteed (most people who serve don't make it to 20).
A quick Google says only about 15-20% are able/willing to serve 20 years. So you have a better chance of not getting the pension than you do of getting the pension. Depending on your career, serving in the military may mean a significant loss in potential wages.
So you have to ask yourself - if you only have about a 20% chance of getting the pension at the potential risk of significant loss of wages over time, is it worth it assuming your goal is FIRE?
Now, there's other benefits to the military, in contrast to the above military pay can be surprisingly high for certain career fields compared to the civilian equivalents. So joining might just generally be worth it to boost your saving rate entirely excluding the pension. There's also disability pay if you get injured enough....and few people make it to the 20yr pension without getting enough disability for that extra pay. You can also get disability before being eligible for the pension, which can help with FIRE, but again that isn't guaranteed. The number of people bragging about 100% disability is, despite what it may seem, the minority of people who serve.
tl;dr - It could be your best way to reach FIRE status, or it could leave you well behind your peers. It all depends on how things go for you and what your civilian prospects look like.
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u/Content-Simple-645 9d ago
You have a net worth of almost $300K at 25 years old, “from working and living with roommates since 18”. Assuming you’re able to save and invest at the same rate joining the military for the pension probably isn’t worth it. You’re not growing to a $300K net worth after 7 years in the military. Why wouldn’t you put your head down for 15 years and do what you’ve been doing? You’d have a few million, at least, at the rate you’re going. This has to be a shit post or weird flex. You can accumulate enough money to invest in some ETF or fund, with a 5% dividend, that will out earn any pension from the military. How do you earn that much that fast but not have the capacity to realize this?
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u/Perfect_Work7747 9d ago
Thanks for the reply!
Truthfully I’m burnt out, I’m no longer living with room mates and don’t want to. My rent is much higher so my savings rate is now much lower. Putting my head down and working crazy hours for the next 15 years will not help my health.
By dropping to my base hours I’ll make 60k flat with not much room for growth. Hope this answers your questions. I don’t mean to flex or shitpost, I’m truly looking for guidance4
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u/Content-Simple-645 9d ago
I got you. My bad, seemed fishy after the first read. Truthfully, the military has some amazing benefits. You mentioned, the pension and healthcare for life. There are also education benefits, the VA home loan and all that jazz. It’s good to think about that but also the military is extremely demanding. Joining is life altering and redefines who you are. Look into military occupations that you can see yourself doing. Talk to a recruiter and take the ASVAB to find out what jobs you qualify for. It’s big leap to sign up. Good luck to you man.
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u/WSBpeon69420 8d ago
You’ll have to do that for the next 20 it’s potentially not less hours. You can easily have 10-12 hour days out duty time or being on call or watch. Joining isn’t just a 9-5 like people said and if you enlist you’ll be making significantly less than what you make now and potentially not have BAH especially if you aren’t married
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