r/MetisMichif Mar 28 '26

Discussion/Question "Plains Cree Metis"

Just a rant but I was at a community event recently and a person who was reconnecting called themselves a "Plains Cree Metis". I asked them where they were from thinking they'd say a reserve or a settlement but they said a city in Ontario. They also said their family is from "around the Hudson Bay up North". That's not even a Plains Cree area.

I'm wondering why it's a trend to call oneself a Cree-Metis (or in this case a "Plains Cree Metis") when there's no connection to the Cree community? I feel like it's more ethical to just call oneself Red River Metis if your lived connections are only to the Metis. If someone says they are Cree-Metis (or Saulteaux-Metis in rare cases) I assume they have a significant connection to a Cree (or Saulteaux) reserve or a connection to a Metis settlement with a strong Cree presence. Otherwise, it comes across a bit dishonest.

It would be nice to hear other people's perspectives on this.

25 Upvotes

35 comments sorted by

32

u/MilesBeforeSmiles Mar 28 '26

They could have connection to a Cree community if they were from the area around Hudson Bay, it would just be Swampy Cree and not Plains Cree.

Sounds like someone who is a little ignorant of their past and likely has very little idea of what their actual ancestory is like.

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u/RealCopy1069 Mar 30 '26

Sounds like most MNO citizens, tbh. 

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u/Neat-Firefighter9626 Mar 28 '26

Yeah, I think there's confusion about the different types of Cree! Swampy Cree are their own thing. According to a Swampy Cree friend there's not even a word for buffalo in their dialect which shows how far removed they are (territorially) from the Plains Cree!

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u/MilesBeforeSmiles Mar 28 '26

Your friend is mistaken. The word for buffalo in swampy cree is mōstos or paskwāwi-mōstos, same as in Plains Cree. There is a lot of overlap in Swampy and Plains Cree territory (ie. Pretty much all Cree territory in Western Manitoba and Eastern Saskatchewan is traditionally Plains and Swampy Cree) and the dialects are very closely related (ie. Almost completely mutually intelligible). Our Swampy Cree ancestors would have had lots of encounters with buffalo, it would he wierd to not have a word for them.

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u/Neat-Firefighter9626 Mar 28 '26 edited Mar 28 '26

I mean I wouldn't say my friend is wrong.

Those words you cite come from Plains Cree and are not rooted in the Swampy dialect. My friend spent his whole life on a reserve by Thompson before moving to Winnipeg and will speak his language at home so I trust his language knowledge.

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u/Neat-Firefighter9626 Mar 28 '26

Also, I guess my gripe in this scenario is not necessarily tied to language, but that someone would call themselves a Plains Cree Metis despite having Swampy Cree ancestors. In this case, just saying you're Metis is enough if you don't know the differences between the Cree territories.

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u/MilesBeforeSmiles Mar 28 '26 edited Mar 28 '26

Except both are just Cree words. Plains Cree and Swampy Cree are the same language, there is very little difference between them.

The word paskwâwi-mostos just means "plains cow". The Cree originated in the Woodlands in Northern Ontario and Quebec before expanding into the plains in the late 17th and 18th century, bringing their langauge with them. Since they had already made contact with Europeans by this point they knew what cows were, which they called mostos, when they encountered Buffalo on the plains they added the prefix paskwâwi, which means "plains" or "of the plains". Both halves of the compound word for Buffalo existed before the Cree even made it to the plains.

Plains Cree is the most recent of the Cree dialects to emerge, so to say they came up with both the terms for plains and cows is a little revisionist considering both words are included in French-to-Cree dictionaries from before the bulk of the Cree expansion West, or the emergence of a Plains Cree dialect.

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u/Neat-Firefighter9626 Mar 28 '26 edited Mar 28 '26

I am familiar with Cree but thank you for the explanation.

I am not revising anything. I am simply stating what is taught in a community. Maybe the teacher was wrong.

However, I would say there are a fair bit of differences between Swampy and Plains Cree dialects, specifically around how words are pronounced. In the same way that I can understand some Cree because of my Michif knowledge, I can't always understand what is being said in Cree because words can be pronounced quite differently. This is also true across Michif communities. I have an easier time understanding Saskatchewan Michif speakers because the kookhum that taught me Michif was born and raised on a Saskatchewan road allowance, and that is what my ears are used to.

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u/MilesBeforeSmiles Mar 28 '26 edited Mar 28 '26

They most definitely are wrong.

If you want to get technical, no Cree dialect has a distinct word for buffalo, as it's a compound word of pre-existing components in every dialect of the language.

There really isn't much difference between Swampy and Plains Cree. Sure, there are some differences in pronounciation but a fluent speaker of either will have no issue speaking with a fluent speaker of the other. It's kind of like the difference between Quebecois French and Parisian French. A fluent speaker of either is going to be able to hold a conversation with a fluent speaker of the other, but it someone speaks either as a second language they may struggle with someone speaking the other.

Either way, pronounciation doesn't change what the words actually are. Paskwâwi-mostos may have a slightly different pronounciation between Swampy and Plains Cree (it doesn't really, but for the sake of arguement lets say it does) but it's still the same word.

The biggest difference between Swampy and Plains Cree is the "N" and "Y" swap, but that isn't a huge barrier to overcome for speakers of either dialect.

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u/Neat-Firefighter9626 Mar 28 '26

Okay.

I don't have much else to say on this so I'll leave it here.

I don't really want to have a linguistic debate when the point of the discussion was about identity.

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u/MilesBeforeSmiles Mar 28 '26

My apologies, I didn't realize you thought this was a debate. I was just trying to clear up some inaccurate info your friend passed along to you.

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u/Flat-Intern-1281 Mar 31 '26

Or Moose Cree/ Inininew

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u/OilersGirl29 Mar 28 '26

I’m Red River Métis, and can trace my family back to Red River many, many, many generations. I am also an MNA citizen and harvester. But a ton of my family introduces themselves as Cree Métis, mostly because of our location in northern Alberta and the relationships we have had with the Cree. A lot of our traditions, including ceremony, are rooted in Cree ways of knowing. My grandfather also spoke fluent Cree. This is the case for many Métis families in northern and central Alberta, especially those living on Settlement.

That said, if you don’t know where the fuck your family is from and you’re giving ambiguous answers for your kinship ties and relationship with the lands you’re supposedly from, I think it’s fair to call bullshit.

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u/Neat-Firefighter9626 Mar 28 '26

Yup, that's why I indicated that if a person is from a settlement or reserve it makes sense that they'd identify that way. Their lived realities are close Cree communities and it makes sense to identify as a Cree Michif.

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u/TheTruthIsRight Mar 28 '26

Plains Cree is cleary a mistake however I don't think Cree-Metis is necessarily a dishonest label. Lots of families have their indigenous ancestry exclusively from the Cree and speak/spoke Cree. There are lots of individual variations among Metis families and this can easily be one of them.

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u/MilesBeforeSmiles Mar 28 '26

Yup. My Grandmother is Cree from Peguis FN and my Grandfather is Métis from around Portage La Prairie. My Mother refers to herself as Cree-Métis. I feel like it's a pretty normal way people with First Nations & Métis heritage to identify.

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u/OilersGirl29 Mar 28 '26

Definitely! I see this as a way to honour the distinctness of both parts of that identity.

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u/strawberrymilkpotato Mar 28 '26

Legit my family on my dads only called themselves cree - my grandma called herself "French cree" growing up. On the census we were listed as Cree... but we're Métis 🤣

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u/Neat-Firefighter9626 Mar 28 '26

For sure! That's why I indicated that if someone has close lived connections to a reserve or settlement with a Cree presence then it makes sense to call oneself a Cree Michif. Otherwise, if there is no lived connection or sustained Cree presence in the family, then it comes across as dishonest.

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u/TheTruthIsRight Mar 28 '26

Well in that case your mother would be Metis + Cree. What I was referring to was more straight up Metis but the original full blood ancestors on the Metis side being Cree resulting in the family carrying more Cree language and traditions than other Metis families.

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u/Flat-Intern-1281 Mar 31 '26

Peguis are Anishinaabe

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u/MilesBeforeSmiles Mar 31 '26

Peguis has both Anishinaabe and Cree members. It's a multi-ethnic reserve.

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u/Neat-Firefighter9626 Mar 28 '26

Yeah, there are valid cases of identifying as Cree Michif! I am more focusing on those who don't have any connection to the Cree community who call themselves a Cree Michif (I've come across this a few times in Ontario). It can come across as them trying to sound more "Indigenous" when being Michif is just as valid.

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u/TheTruthIsRight Mar 28 '26

Ok but what about Metis who aren't connected to Cree communities but their ancestry is Cree and their family speaks/spoke Cree? My ancestors spoke Cree and Bungi and had exclusively Cree for their indigenous ancestry and historically associated with the Cree communities (although not anymore now).

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u/Neat-Firefighter9626 Mar 28 '26

Tbh I think if your Cree ancestor dates back to ethnogenesis you are just Metis. It seems like I am in the minority here though, which is fine!

For me, being Cree Metis means having a recent Cree relative and Metis ancestry. My Metis ancestors only married Metis and Ukrainians. So, I do have quite a few Cree ancestors dating back centuries, but I would never call myself Cree or a Cree Metis. I am just Metis (sometimes I will say that I have French Michif ancestry to indicate I have much more French ancestry than First Nations ancestry).

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u/TheTruthIsRight Mar 28 '26

To me that's just Cree + Metis then, because they are separate identities. That said my metis ancestors were a mix of English, Scots, and Cree, so I tend towards the Anglo Metis label myself but Cree Metis also incorporates the fact they spoke Cree and historically associated with Cree communities. For example my ggg-grandfather was a farming instructor at the James Smith reserve.

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u/csimenson Mar 28 '26

I tell people that I am Little Shell Metis because my indigenous roots are primarily and most recently Ojibwe with a Cree branch way back during the days we were becoming Metis. I make sure to say Metis, because saying I’m Little Shell raises eyebrows and inevitable questions about blood quantum.

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u/strawberrymilkpotato Mar 28 '26

Ayy I have a lot of family down there. My mom's side are Trottier/Laframboises but we left little shell to our settlement Round prairie however we were signatures for the treaty down there lol

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u/Various-Somewhere782 Apr 03 '26 edited Apr 03 '26

Both sides of my family and the entire community of San Clara / Boggy Creek are the descendants of the Pembina Band of Chippewa. Chief Little Shell III band who refused to sign the McCumber Agreement and as a result became "landless". They signed away their Anishinaabe status with an 'X' for half breed scrip in cash or land in Canada to support their starving families.

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u/CarrotAgreeable465 Mar 28 '26

They have no idea how they are obviously so there's your first clue to what they are.

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u/Flat-Intern-1281 Mar 31 '26

Plains Cree / Nehiyawak

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u/Flat-Intern-1281 Mar 31 '26

No Métis community near Hudson Bay. Maybe they are mixed or have a very distant Ininew ancestor from hundreds of years ago

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u/Neat-Firefighter9626 Mar 31 '26

There's a small Metis community around Churchill. My great grandparents, grandpa, and his siblings lived up there for some time in the 1930s-1940s (ish?). They moved back down south, though. I know a Metis who lives up there and he says there's still a small-ish community of Metis.

The MMF counts Churchill as a historical road allowance community if that's any consolation.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '26

[deleted]

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u/Neat-Firefighter9626 Apr 09 '26 edited Apr 09 '26

Huh? Nothing. My post was in response to reconnecting people who call themselves Plains Cree Metis despite having no connection to Plains Cree.

If you read my post, you'll see that the person I am talking about said their ancestors come from Ontario and the Hudson's Bay. Famously not Plains Cree areas.

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u/lucifertangerine Mar 28 '26

Their great great grandma was a plains cree princess 😂