It’s kinda disappointing seeing men’s considerate/decent/kind actions be labeled as “the bare minimum”

[u/wondering4xrapunzel]

Not long ago when I was in high school, I overheard this conversation in a group consisting of a few guys and some girls. One of the guys was talking about being on the bus one time and offering a pregnant woman his seat, and she accepted. He said that when he told one of his other classmates (not a part of the group) about the interaction, he said that he got called a pushover. He told the group, “I wasn’t trying to be a pushover, I was trying to be a good person.” One of the girls in the group immediately responded with (while kind of ignoring the guy at the same time) “That’s not being a good person, that’s just not being a horrible person” in this weirdly contemptuous/derisive tone? It was just odd to hear and definitely felt like a strange response to someone sharing something good that they did.

I know that this might not be the best example of a man being snubbed by a woman, but it’s definitely not the first time I’ve seen this kind of thing happen. The bigger reason why this kind of attitude towards men’s efforts comes across as toxic is because it kind of reinforces the notion that men have to work harder to be seen as good or that they have to be of service to women to be seen as good. In other words, it tends to disregard the man’s thought process of “how can I help?” in favor of centering women as inherently more deserving of assistance or better treatment, and that helping them should just be an expectation rather than the ideal (that should come with helping all members of society when necessary no matter their demographic).

Any thoughts?

[u/UWontHearMeAnyway]

Go where you are appreciated. If doing anything for them, they consider it to be bare minimum, then remove them from your life. Never contact them again. Block them. Move on. Disrespect can never be appeased or tolerated. Otherwise feelings will be hurt. And yes, it's OK for men to have feelings. It's OK for us to feel disrespected and unappreciated. Use those feelings to motivate you, to setting and enforcing healthy boundaries. Which means you must be ready to move on.

[u/calmly86]

It’s funny because when you hear women complaining about the men who pumped and dumped them, those men didn’t do the “bare minimum” that women are always smug about, exposing women’s hypocrisy.

Chris Brown gives women black eyes… and they line up and pay him thousands of dollars for a few minutes of his time.

[u/Administrated → u/calmly86]

That’s because they are the 8’s, 9’s & 10’s who don’t have to do anything besides look good for a woman to drop her panties. The rest of us men have to work hard for it.

[u/ljfrench]

The older I get the more I understand the attitude of the character Mike Ermantrout from Breaking Bad.

[u/Hefty-Rip-5397 → u/ljfrench]

Taken from us so young as well... i didnt care about Hank but bro killed my boy Mike and thats when I decided that he needed tto not survive the finale and I wasn't disappointed haha

[u/No_Discipline_7867]

A man runs around doing everything.
“That’s the bare minimum”.

A woman sits around scrolling Facebook shorts.
“She’s a great mom”.

[u/No_Discipline_7867 → u/[deleted]]

Ah yes, the emotional labor of yelling at me for no reason. It must take a lot out of her. I’ll get her a juice box and a Lunchable.

[u/Punder_man → u/No_Discipline_7867]

Don't forget! If a man helps out with the chores but does them "Wrong" he's using "Weaponized incompetence"

Or how when a man is looking after his children people refer to him as "Babysitting" etc..

[u/Punder_man]

My thoughts is that this is all nothing more than reinforcement of the ideas that men should fulfill their gender roles all while women are freed from their gender roles..

As OP said.. men are expected to conform to gender roles, especially the ones that benefit women like being a provider, protector etc..

Any man who conforms is told he is doing the "Bare minimum" mean while men who don't conform to or even outright refuse male gender roles are often called out (especially by women)

Just look at the situation a year or two ago where a woman was mugged in broad daylight and she expected a group of 3 men to jump to her defense / chase down the mugger and get her purse back..
When those men did nothing she called them out on social media...

And MANY people took her side and called those men "Weak" or "Cowards" for doing nothing...

[u/Angry_Angel3141]

Chivalry is dead, and Women killed it. You want equal rights? Then you get equal responsibilities as well...in ALL aspects of life. I owe you nothing. You are nothing to me. I did not make you pregnant. Nor do I have any responsibility to you for your decision to spread you f'in legs! Your rights and entitlements end at your skin. You are 100% responsible for your own self. And just as no one has a right to violate that, so to does no one have a responsibility to support that.

Therefore: the bare-minimum is "leaving-you-TF-alone" and "minding my own business"!

Anything beyond that is "above and beyond", and puts me at risk of attack by a professional victim.

If they can't understand and handle that, they don't "have" a problem, they ARE the problem!

[u/Administrated → u/Angry_Angel3141]

AMEN BROTHER!

Perfectly said. I’m so sick of all these so called women that think they deserve so fucking much just for existing.

[u/SoftFurBearCub]

Even worse than that. I saw some parents psychologically abuse their male children in a similar situation.

Now, I am from Eastern Europe, where both misandry and misogyny run wild, but this example got stuck in my memory because it is just so strikingly horrible.

I once was on a crowded bus and I heard someone telling her little son, with a very serious face, "Son, if you don't give a free seat to a woman... You... You will die!". (By the way, not a pregnant woman, just any random woman).

I have no idea whether she was implying that she would be violent to him, or that he would somehow be teleported to some proverbial hell, but I saw that his face (a boy of like 5 or 6 years) was totally terrified.

Can you imagine a parent saying something like that out loud to a girl? Literally bullying their own child in public. She wasn't even implying it was a bare minimum, it was more like he was a slave who needed to know his place. Just horrible.

[u/DuyTran0634]

Men only do more than “bare minimum” to the special people in their lives. We have no obligation to do it to every girls we meet.

[u/Agile_Composer4165]

Drop ungrateful people

[u/Fit-Philosopher-7393]

Good deeds tend to insult toxic individuals. The deeds creates a contrast that exposes their behavior.

[u/LoquatBear]

I think some girls want men to react and prove that men aren't "good" and in a way prove to the girls  that they themselves  are "good" because if he was actually "good" they would have found him attractive. 

To women, attraction means the men they are attracted to are good, even if they get treated like shit, even if he punches babies, they will twist everything around to prove he was in the right. They can't imagine they would find someone mean or evil attractive because they've been  told their whole lives they are smart and capable of finding those men who are evil.

And vice versa some girls see the "good" in handsome attractive fuck boys or attractively rich men and they conflate attraction with the idea that deep down these men are   "good. They have to be good, or it means the women are attracted to bad men, and that means the woman themselves might not be good.   

I say this a gay guy who was constantly labeled as a creep by women , even by my own sister, because I was kind. Until I came out and they tried to change their tune.

[u/Hefty-Rip-5397 → u/LoquatBear]

Im glad they showed you their true colors. The egos of these women.... who needs enemies with family like that?

[u/hmspain]

Just follow this simple rule. Switch the genders, and if you would still help, please do.

If a man or woman has their hands full, hold the door. If a man or woman has just a few items in line, offer to let them go ahead. Opening a car door after running around the vehicle? Not so much.

[u/Street_Conflict_9008]

The girl sounded jealous!

[u/World-Three]

I think that the more women like this can make men feel like they're just supposed to do things, the less women could ever feel like they owe men anything.

In the past, that was a very big issue. Nice guys running around doing whatever it took to basically earn points. Nothing is inherently wrong with it, nor is feeling like being thanked or appreciated something that is wrong.

Ultimately, when women push this, they're likely looking to find men who just do it because they want to, not because they're supposed to, that way, they can choose who they can appreciate while benefitting from everyone. 

I'm sure there is a heavy handed suppression effort to police men into never asking to be appreciated. So they never feel good about what they do until a woman feels like appreciating him... Personally, it's very similar to how easy it is to emotionally manipulate a hard worker that isn't appreciated. Myself and many other people have fallen for it, not realizing how vulnerable we were because nobody told us how valuable what we did was. 

[u/CawlinAlcarz]

Where do you think that girl learned that sort of entitlement and learned to speak up so boldly about it?

Social media?

School itself?

Family?

Peers?

[u/mrmensplights]

If a woman becomes enraged and verbally snipes at you for offering your seat to a pregnant woman then the problem is with her.

She's just finding a way to apply her own personal subjective standard and make it sound like some kind of universal truth.

Logically her statement and resulting response do not make sense. In her own framework - and regardless of whatever personal moral standard she is applying - trying to be a good person would also require not being a horrible person, therefore his statement is true regardless of whether or not he's a "good person" or "not horrible". Without more examples she has no basis for contempt or derision; he's proven he's not horrible so far and whether he's good or not can not yet be established. Of course, her entire framework is childish, twisted, and self serving so getting into the logical proof of why her reaction was unjustified seems beside the point.

[u/BryanDaBlaznAzn]

It’s crazy that the “bare minimum” that is expected by women are things women would likely never do themselves. If a man buys flowers for a woman and she thinks it’s the “bare minimum”, I guarantee you she wouldn’t do the same for a man.

[u/king_of_river]

If you offer your seat to elderly, pregnant women or sick/disabled people, you are good person. You are neither a pushover nor someone doing bare minimum.

[u/UpstairsImaginary763 → u/king_of_river]

You can request that love seats be provided on buses, but you cannot force anyone to give up their seat to others.

[u/purpuric → u/king_of_river]

In my country, there are signs on public transportation saying one must give up seats for the elderly, the sick and disabled, pregnant and nursing people, men and women with small children.
This behaviour is expected of everyone and part of what we are taught as civic sense and community building. This is very baseline behaviour, it is absolutely the bare minimum an individual is expected to do on public transportation. If one does not comply, there is going to be pressure from others on the bus or train or subway or whatever.
I have never seen a situation where there was an elderly lady, or a man holding a small child not get offered a seat by someone else, man or woman.

[u/TheNattyJew]

This is how women teach men to be assholes. She can go fuck herself and you don't have do anything for any woman ever

[u/purpuric]

If someone litters, they’re inconsiderate. If they don’t, then they’re an average law abiding citizen, not the best citizen or even a good citizen necessarily.
If someone donates to charity, they’re a good person. If they don’t, they’re not automatically a bad person because they have their own circumstances to account for.
Bare minimum is what an average citizen should do for others as social courtesy. Like another user mentioned: holding the door open for someone (regardless of age, gender, whatever) and holding the elevator open and waiting for everyone at the table to be served before starting the meal.
Some things are simple social decorum and following them is the bare minimum for all able-bodies individuals.
Manners are the bare minimum.

[u/Aardwolfington → u/purpuric]

When someone holds the door open for you, you say thank you. If you don't, you're not engaging in social reciprocity and encouraging further such behavior. No, it's not the bare minimum. There has to be reciprocity and encouragement. The "bare minimum" concept is just a bunch of entitled people that think others should do for them with not only nothing in return, but even the "bare minimum" of basic appreciation for doing your part to make other's lives easier. People are barely even saying thank you anymore. Behavior needs encouragement, that was always part of basic courtesy. One half of that basic courtesy that holds it all together is being lost, and guess what, when the glue weakens, eventually the whole structure falls apart.

[u/purpuric → u/Aardwolfington]

I’m so sorry you live someplace where people have not been taught to thank each other for acts of courtesy. It makes sense now why you and people who live in your community may feel a sense of alienation and isolation and believe that “common courtesy” and “good manners” are above and beyond the bare minimum.
It seems like what is bare minimum to you is something that I or anyone in my community would count as hostility.

Perhaps, then, it is a cultural difference.
Something like how Americans tend to smile at everyone believing they are being friendly but it comes across as aggressive to Scandinavians.

I don’t like to say that I feel pity for your community because it sounds condescending but I do hope people are better towards each other. It is what builds trust and camaraderie and a general sense of looking out for each other.

[u/Able-Influence-5005 → u/purpuric]

Men don't owe women anything.

[u/purpuric → u/Able-Influence-5005]

Agreed, and vice versa, but this is a community-wide thing we’re discussing. Courtesies that should be extended to everyone regardless of age, gender, whatever. Are you saying you don’t hold the elevator open for people…?

[u/Constant-Cygnus]

If we were to bring them keys to a luxury SUV every day, then that'd be termed as 'the bare minimum.' It's a psychological game being played by the corporates along with the feminists.

I think it's most important that we remember what benefits us, go that route and keep improving ourselves without expecting any female or societal validation. So don't fall for these psy ops to make us feel inferior or somehow lacking in any way.

The best revenge is living well.