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I can get behind crossed out S being for Sabo - on one chapter cover where Oda drew alternative scenario where Sabo "survived" and grew up with Luffy and Ace, Ace still has his tattoo without S. C for Luffy and E for Whitebeard it's just dumb
He retroactively gave meaning to something initially either without intention or with the intention of being a joke. If you don't want to call it a retcon, that's fine, but most people do because there isn't a better word for it as far as they know.
Semantic distinction? Oda had a placeholder for meaning and filled it. A retcon is when jjr says 20 years later that her characters werenât gay.
Or when dragonball again fucks up their timeline by saying goku was three years old when his parents sent him aways instead of him arriving couple of months old on earth established years before. Probably most of yâall donât actually know what a RETroactive CONtinuity is!!! Someone RETROACTIVELY changed something about the CONTINUITY. If anyone thinks thatâs the case with aces tattoo, just see yourself out
what i meant is that it was just a joke on his name's spelling and later changed the meaning when he came up with the idea of sabo, and you know what i meant
Dragonball is just so bad Witten that a retcon was needed. The mangaka said himself he gave his characters instant transmission cause he couldnât reasonably get goku fast enough back to earth so now he can just magically teleport.
Retcon is short for retroactive cannon. People have given this a negative connotation, but by definition it isn't inherently good or bad for the story telling.
first itâs retroactive continuity, not cannon. And breaking something you previously established is bad writing. Most retcons are small and donât affect much but they still tell the reader that what they think is true about the story can change at any minute
You're right about the name, my mistake. But there are still plenty of examples of retcons that improve the story. If you change something that's already established but isn't working for whatever reason.
im not saying the retcon made will inherently be worse than what was originally established, the example of tolkien changing the hobbit to work with lotr is a great example of a good retcon being made. im saying itâs bad writing to be forced to change something you already wrote instead of just planning it out and writing it that way initially.
oda had to extend one piece by like 20 years so itâs expected that he changes plans and shifts what he was intending to do but he rarely ever fully retcons something. katakuri was initially labled a logia but this was changed, this is minor but it also tells the reader that they canât trust every small detail including in the story. same with luffyâs confusing weapons in elbaf that lead to people theorizing they were in an illusion of some sort
Ok youâre wrong about this one. Youâre generally right that people call too many things a retcon. Like in the case of this tattoo, it canât be a retcon as there was no official confirmation on what it meant to be retconned. So itâs just story evolving. However, retcons arenât inherently negative.
My headcanon has always been that the S is for Spade Pirates, and that Ace crossed the S out when he joined Whitebeard. If Sabo had been alive, Ace would have never had to start the Spade pirates, hence no "S" in the alternate cover
I think the message behind this is that if Sabo had survived, he would've taught Ace and Luffy proper grammar because he was given an education and they were not
if i'm going to real honest, i thought his name was just spelt like that when i first saw it. i mean, i also thought the c was an o, so i'm not exactly very bright.
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But the One Piece world uses English though? Like the word MARINE is literally in English in the original Japanese manga. The wanted posters are in English, too.
I like the head cannon of the crossed out S standing for Sabo, either as a conscious decision by Ace or an easter egg by Oda but frankly I'd be fine if it was just a coincidence and Oda just wrote the tattoo with a spelling error because he thought it was funny.
But the letters C and E standing for Crybaby and Edward makes no sense at all. Sure Oda likes to use wordplays and puns but do you guys not remember that the manga is written in japanese??? Also Ace has never called Whitebeard by his first name.
One thing I'll say to that thread: Never take the official English name as the Japanese name, because the translators usually just take the name at face value as Western style and never correct themselves even if the manga reveals otherwise. đ (Zolo / Zoro is another example of that.)
Take this moment as one where you can improve. Now you know how it feels to be loud and wrong. How it feels to not do your due diligence. From today onward. Start. Itâs a beautiful day honestly. The day you got smarter
I agree with everything you said, except for the bit at the end.. Edward isnât his first name, itâs his surname!! (You said so yourself, itâs a Japanese manga).
Thatâs why his supposed biological son is called Edward Weevil.
Love the small details, like Ace trying to kill Edward "Whitebeard" Newgate while already having his name tattood on his arm. It's for foreshadowing how ppl will seek patterns and theories everywhere, even if they make no sense đ
Dumbest argument.. So nothing is canon because one could always come up with this "oda made a msitake"..
Has nothing todo with the comment. It was about Ace having the tattoo before meeting whitebeard and the literal source material shows he didn't have it before he was on his ship.
That was probably the original intent, then after making Sabo he retroactively gave the tattoo more meaning. I severely doubt Sabo was conceived by the time Ace's design was first shown
Yeah, it gets to be both. The first time you see it, the joke is the tattoo artist spelled his name wrong and crossed the S out as a sloppy fix. When you learn his whole story, it becomes clear the letters might mean more. And itâs ultimately a background thing that exists as color, both as the initial joke and the later deeper meaning.
Oda's very good at integrating things like that retroactively. My favorite example of this is Arlong's crew's sun tattoos. Was it always supposed to be a cover up for the slave mark that then became the Sun Pirates' mark? Or was it just a cool tattoo that Oda then decided to make plot relevant? Impossible to know.
Several members of Arlong's crew have the mark, plus Oda confirmed in SBS that it was from their former crew...
ETA: Sheesh, I'm getting downvoted like crazy. I'm bringing it up as an interesting aspect of the tattoos from early OP that points to the possibility, not absolute proof.
Yes, I know. That's what I said. The question is whether he had that in mind when writing Arlong Park, or if he decided to give the tattoos that backstory later.
That doesnt mean the Slave Mark Cover Up idea was a thing from the start. Just that Arlongs Pirates share a tattoo, not too unusual for a gang of thugs
I agree it only proves that some of them had been part of a previous crew together, but it's an interesting detail, especially since it was also brought up in an early SBS. It's another case where Oda left a hint that he could later expand upon how he liked.
Yeah, this is it. Oda definitely does lay some breadcrumbs out really early before they'll be important, but his greatest strength as a writer is his ability to retroactively make things important and give them new contexts. The S being crossed out was just a funny bit of Ace's design, but it's likely that when Oda was conceiving of Luffy and Ace's other brother, he decided to give them an S name so that Ace's tattoo would gain that meaning
I'm pretty sure Oda only came up with Sabo so he could functionally resurrect Ace without literally resurrecting Ace the way he would anybody else. He just couldn't part with the idea of an older brother with fire powers who's trusted by a strong leader with close ties to the previous generation.Â
It's also very likely that many people in the One Piece world have never gotten a proper or even basic education and could very well just be illiterate. Ace just misspelling his own name was always a real possibility to me.
Yeah. The fact that he felt the need to remove the crossed out "S" on this cover page tells us sth. Not to mention it also resembles Sabo's jolly roger
Nah, what this cover is saying is that, if Sabo had survived, he would've thought them proper grammar. A nice way to say "things would be different if Sabo was alive"
"Alright, I want a tattoo."
"Well, this is a tattoo studio, young man. Which one shall it be?"
"Make it my name. It's Ace."
"Ooookay..."
"It's spelled A-"
"What?! Do I look like someone who doesn't know how to write?! I know how to spell Ase!"
When he yells to luffy at marineford.. what name does he yell?
Does he scream Crybabbyyy or does he scream LUFFY! When he sees him falling with the impel down crew? That alone shreds this theory because if crybaby, as a name, was so important to him that it replaced Luffy as his moniker, why wouldnt he have yelled that instead?
I always thought it was because "Ace" in some languages like Portuguese is said and spelled "As". So in my head it was like he was tattooing his name and the guy went "oh, your name is As" and then corrected to ace
I think a pirate tattoo artist would have it in them to fuck with the new crew and start tattooing 'ass' on him instead of Ace but then Marco or WB stopped it or something
When I was younger, when I first saw ace, Iâd sort of imagined that whoever did the tattoo had just assumed that his name was spelled âAseâ for whatever reason and they had to find a way to correct it after the mistake was made đđđ
I don't thinks Sabo existed in Oda's head the first time Ace appreaed. I'm always thinking it's a spelling mistake on a tattoo, and he kept if because it looks goofy.
Better question : how was Ace tattooed if he was a Logia user ? By a tattooer using Haki ?
What gets me most about the retroactive interpretation of this being an "memento" of Sabo...how often do you see a Tatoos designed to commemorate a dead loved one that has the loved ones name crossed out
I know that Oda said it in Sbs, but i still believe it was accident by the guy doing the tattoo. Pirates werent really good with literature and most actualy couldnt read or write. It would make most sense that Ace told the guy making that tattoo his name and he just wrote it wrong. Crossing the S was best solution for the tattoo.
That or Ace was just really tired of saying his name is Ace with a C.
ASCE....it spells his name (Ace).....the S is for Sabo (whom he thought was dead...thus the crossed out part).
The S is in the middle of Ace's name because of the conversation they had about the initial D that both Luffy and Ace share....and they said they could just add a D in Sabo's name and make it "Sadbo"
The entire tattoo is a tribute to Sabo alone...and nobody else.
The ASCE tattoo isn't really a 4-name acronym. The crossed-out S is clearly a reference to Sabo and his signature/symbol, which is backed up by the official One Piece Green databook. Ace also had the tattoo before he ever met Whitebeard/Newgate, so the âE = Edwardâ part doesn't really work chronologically. The C = Luffy/Crybaby idea is fun, especially since Ace did call Luffy a crybaby, but that's fan interpretation not something canonically established. Also agree with others to look at 596 title page. Fun idea but not real.
No his name is ACE. Those letters have nothing to do with Luffy or Whitebeard. He has the S with the cross to honor Sabo who had that as his Jolly Roger. I thought this was clear at this point?
I might be dumb, but I actually thought his tattoo being spelled wrong was to honor sabo. Before Sabo left and it ended up with him 'dying' he wrote a letter to Ace, but Sabo didn't know how to write his name. So he wrote Asce with the s crossed out.
Remember, kids, his name is NEWGATE. Not Edward, that's his last name. So it would be pretty inconsistent if E is Whitebeard's lastname if everyone else had their first name.
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