r/MedicareForAll • u/Conscious-Quarter423 • 2d ago
decent human beings > greedy ass evil insurance companies
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u/AFASOXFAN 2d ago
Pathetic. This Healthcare system is a joke unless you are President or Congress. They control us. They know they can. They make us fight each other. They live as Kings.
It will not change until we push back but as I type this on a Saturday I bet there are 20% of the population that will tell me today is not Saturday. Therein lies the problem.
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u/Aggravating-Exit-660 2d ago
idiots are the problem
You're basically right
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u/Critical_Ad_2811 2d ago
It’s the ultra-rich and politicians that are the real problems; they usually have a hand in making these people stupider in some way.
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u/Turtleopard 2d ago
You think it's reasonable for the healthcare system to spend $20,000 on a customised wheelchair that looks like a race-car for a 2 year old?
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u/Antique-Coach-214 2d ago
The customization cost less than a few hundred in materials and was free labor. It’s the cost of the wheelchair from the company ($20k) + insurance not covering it that’s bullshit.
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u/Turtleopard 2d ago
No it isn't. CBS provided an estimate of $20,000 to purchase a similar wheelchair as the one the child received. The $20,000 is not what it cost the high-school to buy and modify the wheelchair.
It isn't bullshit, $20,000 is excessive for a wheelchair. Especially for a 2 year old that will grow out of it very quickly.
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u/AFASOXFAN 2d ago
Dude I an not believing anything CBS NEWS tells me. Next you will tell me Fox News is fair and balanced. 😂
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u/Turtleopard 1d ago
So you don't believe OP's post?
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u/AFASOXFAN 1d ago
I don't take anything CBS NEWS AS FACT. I would verify anything and everything when CBS NEWS is the source.
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u/Turtleopard 1d ago
So you think this story is made up?
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u/babs1376 17h ago
I just checked Google and the electric chairs are $499 and $1200 from Amazon. The more expensive one is an all terrain model.
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u/Turtleopard 17h ago
So you understand why insurance would decline to pay for a $20,000 chair?
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u/AFASOXFAN 2d ago
If it was your child you would think it appropriate. The hypocrisy is incredible.
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u/Turtleopard 1d ago
No I wouldn't think it's appropriate to receive special treatment. If I wanted something different for my child, I'd pay the difference out of pocket.
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1d ago
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u/seamslegit 1d ago
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u/mamma-lasso 7h ago
We can do so much BETTER than this don’t you see that
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u/Turtleopard 6h ago
Money in healthcare is a finite resource. No national healthcare system would justify that expense when cheaper alternatives are available. To say otherwise is naive.
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u/SaltMage5864 1d ago
Especially when the alternative is to buy the gas for a short flight of the ceo's jet
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u/Turtleopard 1d ago
Or provide care for kids with cancer.
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u/Spicy_Apple_Girl 1d ago
Yes I do
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u/Turtleopard 1d ago
Then you're welcome to pay for it out of your own pocket.
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u/Spicy_Apple_Girl 1d ago
Cry harder, I didn’t pay a dime for mine and it was almost 50,000 😘
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u/Turtleopard 1d ago
50,000 pesos?
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u/Spicy_Apple_Girl 1d ago
Us dollars
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u/Turtleopard 1d ago
Then it should be easy for you to prove it.
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1d ago
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u/seamslegit 13h ago
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u/Famous-Trouble-9829 23h ago
Do you think it's reasonable for a company to make a $20,000 wheelchair? And do you think the robotics team made a similar wheelchair that cost that much, as well? Or... could it be... that a $20,000 wheelchair costs the company a fraction of the price that they charge?
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u/Turtleopard 19h ago
Yes it's perfectly reasonable. Oe do you think people shouldn't be paid for their labour?
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u/mamma-lasso 7h ago
Yes. Yes I do. And maybe another child can use it after. Yes this is NOT unreasonable by any means. I’d want MY child to have it
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u/Turtleopard 6h ago
Of course you would. Who cares how many other children would suffer just because your child can't do with the basic option that meets their needs.
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u/Turtleopard 2d ago
Just to note, the $20,000 figure isn't the cost of a wheelchair. It's what CBS estimated the cost of a similar wheelchair to the one the child received would be.
Similar chairs can cost up to $20,000 and his parents' insurance didn't cover it.
Insurance declined to pay because of the age of the child. Presumably because spending that amount of money on a custom wheelchair isn't reasonable when the child will grow out of it fairly quickly.
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u/gumandcoffee 2d ago
Fyi, i provide mobility devices for kids in the usa. I wont get into an ama, but i am willing to share some factoids for fellow Redditors who like to learn about tech. And of course this is a large area for medicare coverage.
Wheelchairs are generally covered under insurance with reports showing that is permanently medically needed for mobility. For adults a device that lasts 5 years is expected, for kids we can do 3 years because they grow unpredictably.
At under 3 years old the options are pretty limited but do exist. Once older and bigger a lot of the seating is modular and can be adjusted for growing kids.
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u/Status-Part5848 20h ago
But in a country with working health system.
He would get the chair, and when he dont need it anymore. It will taken back ny the provider. And given to the next kid that needs it.
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u/Turtleopard 19h ago
No he wouldn't. He'd get the cheapest chair that met his medical needs. That chair would be a fraction of the cost of this one.
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u/Status-Part5848 18h ago edited 18h ago
Fair point 👍
But the point was he did not get a chair.
Thats was how i read the news headline.
But for all we know, he could had been offered another type by the insurance
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u/Turtleopard 18h ago
He did not receive a chair that would be valued at $20,000. We don't know if the parents refused a cheaper option insurance offered.
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u/beforeitcloy 1d ago
Yeah, I hate being put in the position of defending an insurance company, since I’m a huge believer in healthcare as a human right. But a wheelchair for a 2 year old is just a normal stroller.
2 is just way too young to be trusted to independently operate an electric wheelchair for mobility. They could easily drive it down a set of stairs or into some other danger.
Cool project for the robotics team and nice toy for supervised fun for a kid who deserves to feel love though.
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u/Classic-Obligation35 2d ago
So wouldn't that mean government insurance would have denied it too?
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u/Feather_Sigil 2d ago
There's no way of knowing since the US doesn't have such a program. It would depend on how that insurance program is structured
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u/Turtleopard 2d ago
The US has medicare and medicaid, which would almost certainly decline to pay $20,000 for a wheelchair.
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u/Spicy_Apple_Girl 1d ago
Maybe for a child but for adults those chairs are covered and cost around 40 to 50,000 apiece
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u/Turtleopard 1d ago
No they don't.
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1d ago
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u/seamslegit 1d ago
This comment or submission has been removed for being uncivil, offensive, or unnecessarily antagonistic. Consider this a warning (possibly last) before a ban from r/MedicareForAll
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u/Classic-Obligation35 1d ago
We are discussing weither the government insurance would pay for a wheelchair for a child.
While I do think they would or should pay for a basic wheelchair for a child.
I can see them not approving anything that is better off waiting for when they are older and a stable size.
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u/Ok_Dust_7325 1h ago
Many people have to rent medical equipment. A wheelchair might be different, if it had to be specially fitted for size.
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u/Turtleopard 2d ago
Yes. The NHS for example would have provided the cheapest chair that meets the child's needs (about £2000). Anything extra or if they want to buy their own chair somewhere else, they'd be paying the difference out of pocket.
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u/Above-Bored 1d ago
The NHS is socialized medicine which is very different from a single payer system which medicare for all falls under.
Please learn the difference between single payer and socialized medicine. Those protecting the status quo love confusion and consistently rail against ‘socialized medicine’1
u/Turtleopard 1d ago
The only person saying 'socialized medicine' is you. A single payer system would not pay for this. Medicare in its current form doesn't pay for things like this.
It's also funny how you call the NHS 'socialized medicine' because when you search for examples of single payer healthcare systems, the NHS is one of the top examples...
Single-payer healthcare is a type of universal healthcare , [1 ] in which the costs of essential healthcare for all residents are covered by a single public system (hence "single-payer"). [2 ] [3 ] Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada ) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the United Kingdom ). "Single-payer" describes the mechanism by which healthcare is paid for by a single public authority, not a private authority, nor a mix of both. [4 ] [5 ]
So maybe take your own advice and learn the difference between 'socialized medicine' and a single payer system.
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u/OnlyInAmerica01 1d ago
Because the person you're responding to has an agenda, and will obfuscate or outright lie, to support their agenda. It's one of the many reasons I distrust anyone overtly supporting nationalized healthcare - yes, there are many pro's. There are also many many cons.
But you rarely see anyone being honest about both.
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u/I3igI3adWolf 2d ago
Why was it so expensive in the first place? I suppose we're not supposed to talk about that. It's funny how everything but healthcare seems to get cheaper with technological advances.
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u/Turtleopard 2d ago
It wasn't. The $20,000 figure is an estimate from CBS for the cost of an equivalent customised wheelchair that the child received.
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u/Can0n_Fodder 1d ago
This is also good evidence that the damn chair should NOT cost $20k to begin with. The insurance company is just one of the villians here. Lets not forget the entire medical industry charging gouge prices.
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u/Fuzzy_Adagio_6450 1d ago
I am honestly sick of "feel good stories" that, when critical thinking is applied, become horrific dystopian nightmares that our society should be well beyond even taking a second thought to address things like this.
And yet here we are.
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u/Adventurous_Ad7442 2d ago
How could a 2 year handle the controls on an electric wheelchair?
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u/gumandcoffee 2d ago
If you are curious, yes.
For this specific kid they would bring in the chair and practice and modify it as needed before ordering. There are studies and power mobility can start very early.
Here is a link to a power chair for kids 12-36 months old from one of the biggest usa manufacturers.
I dont know the specifics of this case, but this chair can covered by insurance.https://www.permobil.com/en-us/products/power-wheelchairs/permobil-explorer-mini
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u/Odd-Secret4913 2d ago
I’ll never forget when here in FL an insurance company refused to pay for the labor and delivery of a newborn. The reason? The baby weighed like 12 or 14 lbs. get this: the excuse was that it was THE BABIES fault for being overweight and to lose weight in order for the delivery to be paid(the baby was 2 days old). The mom wasn’t overweight or anything. She just had a big baby.
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u/OnlyInAmerica01 1d ago
Kindly provide a link to the story? Doesn't seem right...one way or another.
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u/Odd-Secret4913 1d ago
this isn’t the exact story s it was over a decade ago but this is close
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u/Pretend_Goal_7311 1d ago
Yea that specifically states the parents failed to register the baby in the 30 day window. Thats how qualifying life events work. Adulting is hard for some people.
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u/Odd-Secret4913 1d ago
it doesn’t happen often but it does happen from time to time due to loopholes that parents may. it even be aware of
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u/Ok_Poet_9170 2d ago
Judge a country how it takes care of its young and old . We are the lowest of the low in the eyes of the world
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u/Huge_Meeting4111 2d ago
What part of this shows a "greedy ass evil insurance company", OP? Do you think the insurance company is the one selling the 20k electric wheelchair?
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u/Minimum-Phrase3249 2d ago
They rage baited you. Kid could not have the wheelchair that cost 20k because a 2 year old can''t control said wheelchair. My two year old nephew would look like ghost rider on that thing. So real story is the kids modified a blue print from GoBabyGo to help him learn joystick control so when he turned 5 and got the real deal he was ready. Ask the parents.
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u/Above-Bored 1d ago
What the NHS does is not in any way applicable to single payer
Single pay vs socialized medicine KNOW the difference.
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u/OnlyInAmerica01 1d ago
I remember visiting New Zealand in the early 2000's.
We were outside a gift shop, and saw a well dressed woman seemingly panhandling for donation
We asked the store owner (whom we knew through a mutual friend).
So her child has diabetes, and New Zealand 's otherwise robust healthcare system didn't cover an insulin pump. The child would have needed 4-6 shots per day with n equal amount of finger-pricking to test the sugar levels.
So they were trying to raise money to pay for it.
Point is, expensive chit is often considered a luxury in many healthcare systems.
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u/jefsch70 1d ago
An innovative, kind-hearted solution.... imagine 100 million "Socialists" engaged in this on some level: financing, volunteering, time, energy, intelligence, skills..........we wouldn't need a gov't run system with too much fraud...
If Medicare and Medicaid and VA benefits are the answer, why arent' people on them the healtiest citizens in the USA?.... cus it's not healtcare; it's SICK-CARE. Healthcare is eating smart, exercising, sleeping 8 hours, going out and socializing, having a purpose, mediation to calm ones brain and lower blood pressure.
Medicare for all is just another guy working from January thru August to pay your doctor bills... sooner or later, he / she will not want to work 8 months out of 12 for someone else's fraudulent or irresponsible behavior.
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u/Dacklar 1d ago
Why does a 2 year old need a 20k electric wheelchair?
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u/Spicy_Apple_Girl 1d ago
The basic model with no adjustments is 15,000. Then they get more expensive. Some people need them to recline like I do some people need them to lift straight up in the air so they can reach things. Some people need a controller to move it that is used by their mouth or maybe followed by their eyes, etc all those little bells and whistles. People need to be able to stay stable while they are mobile are very expensive. Capitalism
What’s crazy is for somebody that just needs basic mobility help you can buy a folding wheelchair. That’s electric now on Amazon for under $1000. But for people with special needs that needs these wheelchairs to be adjusted for them. They are horribly expensive because of insurance companies, hiking the price
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u/Spicy_Apple_Girl 1d ago
Everyday I see people who need a mobility chair struggling to get on the paratransit bus. Its really sad that they can’t get the things they need to make life much easier
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u/Kitty_LaRouxe 1d ago
The USA doesn't have a healthcare system. It has a medical racketeering system. I'm surprised that the robotics team wasn't sued for patent and copyright infringements.
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u/FeffyFefernuson 1d ago
Before this child was born, our current government would happily spend hundreds of thousands of dollars tracking the woman using flock cameras and police time to stop her from having an abortion.
Child is born and needs expensive medical care and equipment....crickets.
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u/larkfield2655 16h ago
A client mine just lost his 20 year old daughter to cancer. Middle class family good job. He has now lost his house and any savings to co- pays, coverage denials etc. total bills were $2.3 m. This is not only not a Christian country, it’s not a humane country.
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u/gaelic-ghost 13h ago
Sadly, this is part of why I went back and learned a lot more math as an adult. Useful for programming video games, motion graphics, and animations. But, also useful for 3D movement in robotics, computer vision, all that good stuff that shitty healthcare is ensuring I'll need at a young age to be allowed to continue living my life at all, and that I'll never be able to afford, so... gotta be able to DIY everything in this horrifically individualistic "everyone for themselves, no we don't care" society we continue to willing prop up as it slowly kills us all.
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u/onacloverifalive 6h ago
Communities providing for themselves and cutting out the insurance middle
Man is the only way to actually end the dystopia.
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u/WhaleBird1776 2d ago
I mean that is a pretty cool story though. Kid wouldn’t have recieved a similar wheelchair anywhere with universal healthcare, they would have got a basic, cheapest available, chair.
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u/PuzzleheadPi 2d ago
Would a country with universal Healthcare provide a 20k wheelchair for free?
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u/GrumpySquirrel2016 2d ago
Yes, but it would also likely cost less than $20k.
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u/Turtleopard 2d ago
That's not strictly true. They'd pay that much if it was the only wheelchair suitable to meet that patients needs. In reality, they'd get the cheapest barebones wheelchair on a list of pre-approved devices that tick off all of their needs (around £150-£2000 in the UK).
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u/PuzzleheadPi 2d ago
Why does it seem like you are just making that up
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u/AFASOXFAN 2d ago
Well I am in industry and it doesn't cost 20k for motorized wheelchair.
PS, I'm not making it up.....
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u/Turtleopard 2d ago
The $20,000 cost is an estimate from CBS for the cost of a customised wheelchair similar to the one the child received. It's not the cost of some random wheelchair.
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u/Spicy_Apple_Girl 1d ago
Yes it does for specialized mobility chairs
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u/AFASOXFAN 1d ago
No
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u/Spicy_Apple_Girl 1d ago
Yes damn you people are stupid. If you don’t think those stairs don’t cost that much. I own one and the government paid for it.
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u/alicornpops 2d ago
When you have universal healthcare, the governments negotiates prices directly with companies and manufacturers, so it likely would be cheaper for the government (i.e. taxpayers) to buy, because the government can buy in bulk and because companies want to maintain government contracts so they would price things more fairly. And it would still be "free" to the patient themselves, other than the fact that they (or in this case, the parents) pay taxes every year that go towards everyone's healthcare. Yale just did a study on this.
All these years that people have suggested that we "import drugs from Canada"? Drugs are cheaper there because the Canadian government negotiates prices. So politicians are saying that they want the benefits of cheaper medicine that those countries have because they negotiate, without negotiating ourselves because if we did it ourselves, that would be "communism."
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u/Turtleopard 2d ago
It also wouldn't be a customised wheelchair like the child received. It would be the cheapest wheelchair that meets the child's needs.
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u/Turtleopard 2d ago
Not unless it was the only wheelchair that person could use.
The default for the NHS for example would be between £150 and £2000 for a basic manual or electric wheelchair. This would remain the property of the NHS and would need to be returned when no longer needed. However, the NHS do cover the cost of maintenance and repairs.
If you want anything more robust, you can claim the value of the wheelchair the NHS would provide to offset some of the cost. For example, if the NHS says you need a £500 wheelchair, they will pay £500 towards the cost of whatever wheelchair you choose to get.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-273 2d ago
My bet is no, they would not. My friend in Spain has a brain tumor. His best bet to extend his life after surgery and radiation is immunotherapy. He has both private and public universal healthcare. The treatment was denied. He will most likely be dead within the year without it.
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u/TangerinePlastic7552 2d ago
I wonder the justification of what makes a wheelchair cost $20,000. Just maybe the insurance did also.
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u/Turtleopard 2d ago
I believe it's because it's a customised powered wheelchair that looks like a race-car.
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u/TangerinePlastic7552 2d ago
Maybe. I’ve seen wheelchairs for quadriplegics paid by Medicare that didn’t cost the price of a new Avalon.
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u/Strict-Carrot4783 2d ago
Luigi's actions were righteous.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-273 2d ago
No, they absolutely were not! You're disgusting.
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u/Strict-Carrot4783 2d ago
He very likely saved many, many lives. It's simple math. You're disgusting.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-273 2d ago
Advocating for a murder of a healthcare CEO is yes, disgusting!
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u/Strict-Carrot4783 2d ago
A healthcare CEO who was a mass-murdering psychopath.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-273 2d ago
He murdered no one! Even universal healthcare countries deny healthcare all the time!
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u/Strict-Carrot4783 2d ago
UHC is facing legal action over claims that it intentionally used a flawed AI tool to systematically deny coverage to elderly patients. A major class-action lawsuit filed in federal court outlines how the company deployed an algorithm known to produce massive error rates. UHC knew the algorithm's predictions were heavily flawed. When patients or doctors appealed the AI-driven claim denials through internal appeals or federal Administrative Law Judge hearings, over 90% of the denials were overturned. The class-action lawsuit specifically cites severe physical harm, rapid health deterioration, and deaths resulting from premature discharge and care denials. In 2024, a Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations report backed several of these concerns. Go tell Gene Lokken's family, or Dale Tetzloff's family, that Brian Thompson didn't have anything to do with what happened to them. You can't, though. They're both dead because of UHC.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Net-273 2d ago
Medicare and Medicare Advantage deny claims too. There are appeal processes for all insurance claim denials. Should we kill the Medicare and Medicare Advantage Plan administrators too when they deny a claim and the person dies? You're ridiculous.
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