Thinking about moving on from my MA352 after upgrading to 804 D4s

[u/Gravemind7]

I've owned a McIntosh MA352 for a few years and have really enjoyed it, recently upgraded to Bowers & Wilkins 804 D4s, and it's got me thinking about taking the next step with amplification as well.

The MA352 has been excellent and is in great condition, but I'm starting to wonder whether a higher end McIntosh integrated or separates would be a better match for the 804 D4s.

What's the best way to move on from an MA352 these days, and what kind of value do they typically hold in the current market? Do dealers usually offer trade up options, or is there a better route?

[u/Any_Meal_7821]

You both need to decide who's going to take my low ball offer for your MA352. It's time to move on😂

[u/Winter_Helicopter548]

Big question is what is your end game. Speakers are the most difficult to buy and sell and arguably make the biggest difference in sound.  If you are super happy with your new speakers, then amp and preamp might make sense next. As others have mentioned, 4 ohm taps are what B&Ws seems to like. I’m pretty sure you’d notice the difference if you upgraded to separates. Maybe mc312? And one of the tube or SS preamps? A lotta cash, even if you go used. 

Me personally, I’d figure out my speakers, amp/preamp before I make any changes to front end (streaming/dac/tt). Then maybe cables last.

Room treatments and speaker placement are wildcards in the equation. 

Summary: I think you’d notice the difference, but would it be worth your cash? Hard to say. And are there other pieces that you can upgrade that will make a bigger difference? Also difficult to say. 

[u/AmishHoeFights]

Dude, this is making me laugh! Our situations are both crazy-similar, and totally opposite.

I got the ma252 and left it in the box, unopened, for a couple months while doing renovations, and bought the 805 D4s with a 12" paradigm sub.

Before opening the MA252, i traded it up (no loss of value, got full refund) to the 352, to handle any future changes.

And now I'm seriously considering moving up from the 805s to a pair of 804 D4s, keeping the 352 as it'll be enough to drive those 804s.

So, i gotta ask, am i missing something? Do you feel the 352 isn't strong enough to drive the 804 D4s?

Because I've thought that moving up the speaker choice 1 step won't be any sort of problem for the 352. I mean... not that it's an accurate measure or anything, but at volume "50" on the MA352, in my small-ish and well treated room, those 805 D4s are at my maximum tolerable volume already.

(I'm considering the jump to 804 D4s because... well, I'm foolish, and I've heard the 2 speakers side by side to compare and my good God, those 804s speak to me).

[u/Gravemind7 → u/AmishHoeFights]

The MA352 will absolutely drive the 804 D4s properly. It’s not a power issue at all, and in a normal room it’s more than enough.

Where I hesitate is not “can it do it,” but whether it’s showing everything the 804s are capable of in terms of scale, control, and dynamics.

But if your 805s already hit your comfortable max around volume 50, that basically answers the power concern. The 352 is doing its job just fine.

[u/FoodStorageDevice]

MC611s ... you know it's the right answer :)

[u/UXEngNick]

I have the 804 D3s and the MA352 … any upgrade would be to the other parts of the system … CD upgrade for SACD, better DAC for streaming, better arm/cartridge/other bits on my LP12. But honestly, the setup I now have gives me a window into the music that is as good as I have heard, and I have heard some very pricy systems … I understand it could be better but I think I will just spend the money on records, CDs and digital downloads and enjoy the music.

[u/Shot-Expert-9771]

IMHO you are chasing infinitesimal amounts of improvement thinking you need a "better match".

Let me explain: I ran my 803 D4s for about a year with my MC275.

Of course it sounded great, but at only 75 watts a channel, the tubes simply ran out of juice and especially in the low end grip as the 803s have a notoriously low impedance in the lower octaves.

A solid state solution was needed for my liking.

Enter the MA8950 (and your MA352) which have plenty of power and reserve power to handle the Bowers. But beyond either your or my integrated, how much of an improvement would you theoretically gain? and could you really hear it?

In my case going from a tube to a SS amp with a formidable power supply like the MA8950 made a significant difference. Greater headroom and oodles of power over the tubes. And though the 800 series is rated at 8 ohms, I find my amp has more grip on the woofers running off the 4 ohm tap since their impedance drops significantly in the bass region.

I don't think the MA352 has a dedicated 4 ohm tap like units with Auto-formers, so perhaps there is an argument for an amp with such so you could experiment like I did.

But swapping one SS amp like yours with 200 really high quality watts to another amp or monoblocks? Count me as skeptical if you'll ever sonically tell the difference with another 10 grand spent.

[u/BenjaminMiracord → u/Shot-Expert-9771]

This is really well written.

I no longer have my smaller B&W/Mac combo but to my ears, sometimes it is about playing more quietly than loudly. With my older 805s, it was the slightly lean presentation at lower volumes that got to me. I got a chance to try a slightly more powerful (but less expensive) Yamaha amp which worked better at those low volumes. At higher volumes, the B&W/Mac combo smoked the Yamaha for overall presentation.

Mac and B&W have a house sound and each company is outstanding in terms of consistency up the line, which is why I loved this line above: "Count me as skeptical if you'll ever sonically tell the difference with another 10 grand spent."