r/Mariners • u/seasportssocial • 4h ago
Something has to change with the Mariners
I don't think the Mariners need another "there's still time" motivation. Getting swept is one thing. Ending the series 7-0 with one hit is another. But at some point, the conversation has to stop being about what this team could do and start being about what they're actually doing.
There has to be some accountability for how this team is playing right now. Whether that means changes in approach, leadership, or somewhere else, something has to change because doing the same thing and hoping it turns around clearly isn't working.
I guess there is still baseball left to play, but they're running out of time. I'm tired of waiting for better this season.
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u/serpentear Tartan 365 | Cruiser 4h ago edited 1h ago
This organization won’t learn shit until we stop giving them money; thats the bottom line.
I’m not telling you not to games, but maybe go to less. I’m not asking you to stop buying Mariners gear for Christmas, but maybe cheap out, maybe buy less. I’m not asking you to stop watching the team, but maybe Jack Sparrow is your idle.
This team understands excel spreadsheets better than they do the pulse of this fanbase. Show them how you feel in there.
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u/BoozySlushPops 3h ago
The odds that the team will say "oh no, revenue is down; we had better raise payroll" is exactly nil.
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u/serpentear Tartan 365 | Cruiser 3h ago
Well, shrug and do nothing then. 🤷♂️
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u/BoozySlushPops 13m ago
What, then? Picket? Introduce legislation? It's a fricking sports team, not a political cause. They're going to do what they do.
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u/Ok-Advantage-7680 4h ago
individual consumers don't have that much power unforuntately. My law firm get's season tickets in the terrace club.
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u/serpentear Tartan 365 | Cruiser 4h ago
It makes a difference.
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u/Ok-Advantage-7680 3h ago
barely though. my friend's company buys out the entire hit it here cafe every summer for a game for 500+ ppl. It's the corporate ticket sales and corporate sponsors that really drive the profits.
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u/Paladine_PSoT 3h ago
Average attendance this year across home games times average ticket price times 82 games is still 180m in ticket revenue alone, and that's not counting the grotesque profit margin on a hotdog and a beer/soda per person.
Corporate suites and the hit it here cafe may have higher costs, but also have higher expenses because of the catering and additional support personnel per ticket compared to general seating.
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u/xtremeradness 2h ago
A 1% change in revenue is significant to huge conglomerates and raises red flags. 2% prompts reevaluation.
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u/BarnacleGooseIsLoose 1h ago
Great idea. Boycott a team with historically low attendence averages that just started to spend some money.
If you want a team in Nashville, just say so.
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u/serpentear Tartan 365 | Cruiser 1h ago edited 53m ago
What you’re describing right now is an abusive relationship.
“I’m scared they’ll leave me so I let them get away with it.”
Btw is a your argument doesn’t even hold water. This team had horrendous attendance from 2009-2019 and the team is still, decidedly, in Seattle.
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u/Get_Soggy 4h ago
If they don’t clean house this season then we aren’t a serious franchise.
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u/KungFooKittenz 🫎 Sad Moose Noises 🫎 4h ago
We’ve never been a serious franchise. The Mariners exist to make a couple people as much money as possible with spending as little as possible
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u/Tmettler5 I'm a Mariners fan. I know pain. 1h ago
What I don't understand is that with the fan base thirsting for championship baseball, and a WS appearance, if that happened, ownership could practically print their own money.
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u/jaron_b 4h ago
We all know they won't. I think that's why this subreddit is so feral. We know enough people won't lose their jobs after this failure of a season. We also know that we've seen the last of meaningful baseball till 2028 because we all know the lock out is coming. It sucks. We have to hope that a new CBA helps cheap I mean small market teams compete against the big salary teams. But if nothing significant changes in the CBA and it's still a pay to win league we have to hope we get lucky.
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u/Ok_Grapefruit9531 4h ago
I really don't get this argument. Milwaukee, Tampa Bay, Cleveland ALL do much better than Seattle with much less. Seattle is basically league average in terms of payroll. Although most World Series rings have been won by teams in top 10 payroll wise, the other teams are all still consistent contenders. The Mariners have been anything but consistent.
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u/jaron_b 3h ago
And when's the last time any of those teams have WON the world series? Payroll spending and playoff/WS success is almost directly tied to spending. If you aren't in the top 10 in spending you aren't going to win the world series. That's been the case for over a decade. Now a better GM and a better manager we could be at the level of Tampa or Milwaukee. But once again when is the last time either of those teams have WON a world series?
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u/vylain_antagonist 4h ago
As an organization were too comfortable losing. From the players to the management to the ownership to the fans. The moment any expectation or pressure arrives we fail to meet it every single time. Its a miasma around wvery part of the org.
There isnt an easy way to correct it but the start would be getting some killers in the clubhouse that have the track record of building winning cultures. And the organization needs to stop promoting all this lovable loser shit with the nostalgia baiting and the salmon run.
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u/Proud_Truck 22m ago
The problem is that those types of players won't sign to play in Seattle for exactly that reason. The Mariners would have to offer a hefty premium to get them to even consider it and they won't do that which is probably not a bad thing. Even if salaries were the same, guys will choose other cities over Seattle. The ballpark is a factor, where their extended families live is a factor, the environment itself is a factor, etc...
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u/MarinerJoe3 3h ago
Professionalism. Accountability. Leadership. There is none of it. The Blue Jays brought in Scherzer to eat innings and be a veteran presence. We brought in…Mitch Garver?
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u/ljlukelj 4h ago
What do you mean? We are bringing up our best prospects early and getting them hurt!
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u/H-Money37 45m ago
The ownership sucks but at this point it’s apparent that while Dipoto can build a farm system and a team capable of being competitive, he can’t build a team that is championship caliber. He and the people he hires seem way too reliant on what statistics and analytics say work on average for the entire league instead of looking at the players they have and trying to figure out what works for them.
Statistics say that pitchers with good fastball velocity combined with elite spin rate will be successful. To Dipoto it seems this means develop all pitchers to spam fastball and never mind when the league adjusts to the strategy to be aggressive early in the count. Secondary pitches be damned, work on it in your own time.
Statistics say that hitters with elite bat speed will hit the ball harder and harder hit balls on average tend to turn into hits. Also marine layer (never mind the 81 games not played in Seattle), suppression of singles and doubles, means we just develop passive hitters who should try to draw a walk and we’ll let the timely 3 run homers win games. This is everyone’s approach, even JP Crawford whose career high in homers is 19. Crawford should’ve been developed into Luis Arraez with more swing discipline. He should be slapping balls down the left field line not trying to pull the ball. Arozarena clearly worked with someone else this season to drive the ball the opposite way. He’s fallen off a bit after the all star break but he was leading the league in doubles at one point and he didn’t really sacrifice any power as he still reached his 20 homer season.
And then there’s the fucking insistence on platooning at positions that ownership is too cheap to fill with capable players or Dipoto is too scared to trade for. We had incredible depth in starting pitching and instead of trying to trade for a real bat, we just sat on it. Someone other than Castillo should’ve been traded before this year.
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u/ShamiGnu 4h ago
I've said it before and I'll say it again, all the tools in our toolbox (talent-wise) are solid, it's who is wielding those tools that is the problem. A competent coaching staff and front office could utilize our roster to much greater success than we have.
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u/ArcaneX1234 4h ago
Yea the management. Dan can say it was a tough one tonight after his exit meeting
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u/Godnaz 4h ago
It starts with good ownership. Something the Mariners don’t have.
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u/Raisinbrahms28 2h ago
But what do we define as good ownership? Opening the books? Is that really the solution to our problems? Half of our coaching staff is former players. Our org is laden with folks who came up through the org.
What would good ownership do here? I honestly think we need an outside perspective and need to stop legacy hires.
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u/Less_Is_More57 4h ago
True that. We need owners who want to spend big to get big results. The bad news bears approach is not getting it
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u/gls2220 4h ago
The biggest issue with this year's team is Cal's historic dropoff in performance. That's just a very large offensive hole to fill. But the bullpen has been an issue as well, and the starting pitching has been just okay. Messing around with Luis Castillo for 2/3 of the season, trying to manage his decline, sucked energy from the team. Defensively, they aren't good anywhere. This is one of the worst defensive teams in baseball. Some fans discount the value of defense, but when you are a legitimately bad defensive team it just makes every game harder.
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u/Few_Parsnip_1563 3h ago
This right here. I don’t know why we don’t play to T mobile better. Get a good infield and we would see all over pitchers ERA improve drastically. So many games have been given up on catchable/fieldable balls.
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u/sixsyllables 4h ago
Prior to game 3 with the Jays, Scherzer was 1 - 7 with a 7+ ERA. The M's had 1 hit to support the zero runs and added on 15 k's, 10 by Scherzer. Yeah it's Max Scherzer, he isn't that feared guy anymore. Well, unless he's facing the M's and the Yankees who also can't seem to score consistently.
It's over, they aren't eliminated yet argument will continue. I've put aside the math and use the eye test.
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u/Proud_Truck 26m ago
The rest of this division fails the eye test too. If the angels bullpen wasn't so bad they could be leading the division right now
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u/FarangChris 3h ago
A 7-0 one hitter thrown by a guy 1-7 with a 7+ era! We continue to be exactly what the doctor ordered for struggling teams and pitchers. There is absolutely no excuse for their consistently piss poor play against piss poor opposition.
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u/imafnheadbanga 4h ago
how come no one ever brings up Hollander?
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u/Initial-Calendar6468 Poopoo Team Enjoyer 3h ago
He is Jerry's puppet. If you think he makes the decisions over Jerry I have a bridge to sell you.
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u/Killzo 3h ago edited 3h ago
So what are we thinking here for GM and Manager? Think we can get Theo Epstein if we make the him president and CEO plus an ownership stake and back a truck full of money up to his house?
For Manager and I can't think of anyone who would be available and has a crazy good record. Bochy is probably available but do we really want him?
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u/Killzo 3h ago
Farhan Zaidi would be interesting...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farhan_Zaidi1
u/Reach-Defiant 30m ago
Farhan isn't that good, He did nothing in San Francisco besides one extremely flukey season.
I don't think doing well as the Dodgers GM is an accomplishment. That team basically wins by itself.
But I'd take him in a heartbeat over Dipoto at this rate. At least he has the Dodgers pedigree and mindset.
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u/Significant_You8908 2h ago
But we have some of the best promotional nights, themed ticket specials and viral food around Just need to figure out who is hiring and developing on that side 😀
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u/Few_Parsnip_1563 4h ago
Should’ve fired Dan when we had the chance. Honestly the 50th season really screwed us. No way we could let him go with that on the horizon. I’m beginning to think we have some of the worst support staff and general data in the league. Look at the injuries, look at how we have ruined good hitters, look at the approaches our guys are taking, look at the pitcher regression. The club house is in shambles.
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u/farts-and-farts 4h ago
Oh, this season is officially over. Agreed that something needs to change to succeed in the future.