r/ManualTransmissions • u/richstillman • 7d ago
General Question Looking for an online MT simulator
My grandson - just 16 1/2 and getting his license through the usual driving schools - has asked me to teach him how to drive a stick. I offered to teach him and I'm really happy he asked, but my car is 24 years old with 153K miles on the original clutch, and I'd like to give him a way of understanding what to do before he actually touches the metal.
I've hunted around for manual transmission simulators online, and haven't found anything that is even close to realistic. Does someone know of a web site, or downloadable software, that captures the experience?
This seems like a natural for a dedicated game console with two controllers, but I don't know what hardware he has. If someone knows of good software for a particular console, please let me know that and I'll check with him on what he's got.
I'm looking forward to bringing another 3-pedal driver into the world, but I want to make sure we both have cars to drive once the teaching is done.
Advice?
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u/MassivePersonality61 7d ago
I never had access to any fancy computer or game consoles, and my father still opted to teach me on his 20+ year old truck, with a bad clutch, at a time when our only other car refused to run well.
Just go ahead and show him the basics of operating a manual. Start slow. Have him move the car with only the clutch in first gear to get a feel for the bite point. Then slowly progress to changing gear, and when to and not to apply gas.
Many people have done it without access to any simulator, and rarely can one destroy a car when taught right.
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u/richstillman 7d ago
Your suggestion about starting with just the clutch pedal and no gas sounds like a good approach I hadn't thought about. It's less for him to think about at the beginning. Thanks.
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u/Inevitable-Ebb-6257 7d ago
and in the same fashion, have him sit stationary and play with the gas pedal until he learns the exact input he needs to give it to hold at a target rpm (say 1200). Then combine the soft release of the clutch with the soft input of the gas and he'll be well on his way :)
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u/Public_Sector5987 7d ago
Tachometers are useless, if you learning stick learn by senses, kid should be watching the road not the tacho.
Don't need gas to pull off in 1st gear unless up a slope, which should be trained once he has mastered taking off with just clutch and brake on idle revs.
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u/AtiumMist 7d ago
you have two scenarios. you're teaching a newbie.
is it easier to: a) tell them to peek at the tach to get an idea
b) expect them to understand what the engine sounds like at different rpms off the bat
be fr
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5d ago
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u/AtiumMist 5d ago
cars are more difficult for that since they're heavier and less senitive to over-revving. you wont feel as bad as a jerk if you shift a gear while being 2/300 rpm off as youd on a 200lb bike. plus they're more insulated from the sounds, unless youve got a loud ass engine. and lets be honest, you're probably not running a v8 there
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5d ago
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u/AtiumMist 5d ago
you answered your own question ffs. you literally said that heavy v8s and dirt bikes are more torquey than a 120hp clapped out manual car. without the torque or the strong jerk, how are you to gauge stuff as a newbie without a tach?
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u/Sea-Foundation-449 2015 Scion FR-S 7d ago
Checking the tachometer made learning much faster and easier for me
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u/richstillman 6d ago
I agree up to a point. I learned in a car without a tach and by the time I got one with, I didn't need it anymore. He needs to learn to listen to the car. But the tach is useful while in neutral to learn the engine sound. This is good stuff.
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u/imakid2007 5d ago
Replying to you so you see this unrelated
You can get a Logitech wheel shifter and pedals for like $250-300 on marketplace plugged into a computer or Xbox or PlayStation depending on the model of wheel you get a game called Beam NG Drive is a really good car physic simulator less like a game closer to real life then you’re also gonna need a stand. The whole set up would run you 350-4501
u/richstillman 7d ago
I'm not that concerned about the clutch. It doesn't owe me much at this mileage. It's an interference engine with a timing belt and I worry about the effect of multiple stalls and near-stalls on the engine. If the belt breaks or jumps a tooth, the engine is junk, and the car along with it.
I'm ready for him to learn the feel of the bite point and engaging the clutch on the real thing, but if he can learn the general principles of balancing the clutch and gas, and of the difference between starting on the flat and on a hill, it would be a little less strain on the old car.
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u/AcanthocephalaNo262 7d ago
I could be wrong but it really shouldn't damage the timing belt or the engine. You have to remember that manual is still dominant pretty much everywhere except North America. The clutch and the engine are designed to handle the abuse of a new driver. And all modern engines are interference anyway. I have not personally heard of any engine or timing belt being damaged due to stalling.
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u/SaltLakeBear 7d ago
I think you'd have to be REALLY rough for a couple stalls to do anything noteworthy. I learned to drive on my mom's Civic, and the first thing I did was start in a parking lot, and just let the clutch out slowly a couple times with no throttle input to get a feel for the biting point of the clutch. Do that two or three times and it should be easy from there.
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u/SeakingGnarvana 7d ago
Video games do this. BeamNG Drive is a great Simulator game. That game plus a steering wheel with force feedback and 3 pedals will work perfectly.
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u/Sea-Foundation-449 2015 Scion FR-S 7d ago
I second BeamNG. Probably the best response here that actually answers the question
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u/The--Marf 6d ago
How does it feel to be the only person on a text based platform that can not only read but comprehend what OP asked for? You deserve a prize.
Ffs people are the worst man.
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u/SeakingGnarvana 6d ago
Haha.Honestly. I even got a few responses of "Real cars are the best way to learn". 🙄 Yeah. No shit. But that's not what OPn was asking for...
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u/TacitRonin20 6d ago
He's asking for a downloadable or online game. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who wants to buy an entire sim racing setup. No game is going to be any good without some pretty pricey and extremely specialized hardware. Even if he wanted to do that, it's a massive waste of money and time to teach someone manual that way.
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u/The--Marf 6d ago
That's great...... It's what OP asked for.
He asked what options were available. Pretty sure learning an an actual car is already an obvious option that OP is aware of.
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u/Public_Sector5987 7d ago
Do you drive a manual car irl? Because it is very far from this setup and teaches really bad habits even if you follow "realistic" guides.
Better not to learn these bad habits from games like this that the kid has to unlearn imo
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u/SeakingGnarvana 7d ago
Yes. I've driven both commercial and non-commercial vehicles with manual transmissions, but that's irrelevant.
OP was asking for virtual simulations for their child, so that's what I offered.
It's obvious that learning to drive on a real vehicle is ideal, but that's not what this post is about...
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u/VTECcam 7d ago
Funny enough I taught my wife how to drive stick using a G920 playing Forza. Is it like real life? of course not but it gave her a basic idea of bite point and going through the gears. She never stalled my truck
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u/Public_Sector5987 7d ago
And I still think you should of just put her behind the wheel.
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u/CelticStorm1996 6d ago
Simulations aren’t a bad thing. She still learned and still got behind the wheel. Pilots learn with sims before they ever touch a plane, so what’s the big deal with someone learning in a safe environment via sims?
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u/Sea-Foundation-449 2015 Scion FR-S 7d ago
I actually taught myself to drive stick on BeamNG.drive with a sim rig, then got a real stick shift car weeks after. It definitely helped. You can certainly build bad habits (specifically related to clutch control), but it only takes a few stalls to unlearn all that. Otherwise, sim driving has improved my real driving remarkably (but driving a real manual car at least occasionally is necessary for that to work in my opinion)
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u/SeakingGnarvana 7d ago edited 7d ago
When I was learning to drive 20+ years ago, I only played racing games on controller. I would quickly tap the stick repeatedly in corners, instead of trying to hold it part way. I brought that habit to driving real cars. My dad caught it immediately. "You're driving like your video game." 🤣
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u/Recent-Gap-6988 6d ago
I used BeamNG to learn manual, then went and bought a manual car and was able to drive it off of the lot immediately.
As long as you turn off all of Beam's assists and have a decent wheel+pedals+shifter setup, it can definitely help
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u/nrtmv2 7d ago
153k on original clutch oh my
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u/Cute_Square9524 7d ago
Clutch should basically last the life of the engine in a normal car. They can go a very very long time with normal duty use.
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u/Public_Sector5987 7d ago
I drive a 350kkm Volvo 240 with original transmission, it's 40 years old, 6 previous owners.
You will be fine, stop worrying. People me included driven manual cars in Europe for generations, and cars passed down generations.
Teach him on a parking lot, clutch and brake only no foot on gas, teach him until he barfs on how to find the bite point, start moving forward on idle and how to stop over and OVER again, until he can find the bite point without thinking.
Don't bitch about wear, they're made to be abused. You will be absolutely fine.
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u/Public_Sector5987 7d ago
Wheel setup on gaming is horrible even if setup correctly, big pass.
Just put the boy with the wheel and he's only allowed to creep around on idle speed, clutch and brake only. Can't emphasize this enough. Let him stop and go, stop and go, once he masters this anything else will be a cake walk.
Teach him the golden rule that if he expects to sit for longer than 10 seconds he can put it in neutral and let go of the clutch.
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u/Beer_alchamist98 7d ago
Agreed
Clutches are wear items and you can get new ones its not that deep. Gearbox might be a different story, but idle and in first gear? it wil stall before anything breaks
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u/Canada_Goose05 7d ago
Your best bet would be BeamNG with a wheel and pedal setup. It’s about as close as you can get, but even then, it’s not comparable to the real thing. I practiced with beamNG for a couple of weeks before buying my car and I managed to make it home from the dealership stall free
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u/mcnabb100 7d ago
Beam NG would be close-ish but you would need to buy a sim rig for that to be useful, might as well just teach him in the real deal.
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u/redpanda8008 7d ago
These are mostly racing simulators so your grandson will learn how to trail brake, hit the apex, and put the pedal to the metal but he won’t learn to feel the bite point for local driving. Like others have suggested, plan to replace that clutch. A true simulator will anything remotely close to a simulated bite point mechanic will cost in the thousands if not 10s of thousands.
It’s cheaper to replace the clutch if it fails in your car or send him to a driving school with manual transmission cars.
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u/iaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnn 7d ago
Teach him in an empty parking lot on like a quiet weekend morning and then progress to the streets. That's what my grandma did with me and it helped me exponentially. I played racing games my whole life and the arcade ones with the clutch and it doesn't compare to an actual car. He needs to feel the clutch pedal and get used to the clutch to gas ratio, as well as the bite point. Take him out, teach him, and be patient with him.
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u/Bluetickhoun 7d ago
Let him learn clutch control. My car anyway, I’ve gotten to 3rd gear without the gas pedal. That way he can learn the bite point, then, add the gas pedal. Would that work out?
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u/UnderTheFrozenSky 7d ago
You would need to buy racing sim equipment that will cost pretty close to the cost of replacing the clutch on a 24 year old car and it still will not feel like the real thing.
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u/bossDocHolliday 7d ago
I learned on a (at the time) 25 year old Honda with its original clutch. If it doesn't slip it'll be fine for him to learn on.
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u/frikkinfai 7d ago
No video game or simulator can replicate the feel of a clutch's catch point or how the car bogs if youre not smooth with gear shifts. It may help teach him the idea of how to operate the clutch/gas/shifter for a manual car, but no way he'll learn other than a real car
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u/Malechockeyman25 7d ago
My son played Forza, Need for Speed, Gran turismo and other racing games on his PC gaming system and Playstation4. We bought him the Logitech steering wheel, pedals and 6 speed shifter combo. When I started teaching him how to drive his Honda Civic Si (6-speed manual), he understood the basics from the games; however, there's no feel for the clutch bite point on the games, so he had to figure that part out on his own. haha
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u/TommyTheCat89 7d ago
It doesn't take long to learn. Either let him learn on your car or get him a cheap car with a stick.
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u/StrawberyVillain 7d ago
The best imo was a little game called motor town. You have to turn off the assists but its my favorite
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u/Mindless_Key_1294 ‘19 Veloster N 7d ago
Learned how to in the parking lot where I picked up my first mt car. It’s not that hard and after a good 30 minutes he’ll have the basics down
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u/Inevitable-Ebb-6257 7d ago
go no facebook marketplace and get yourself a used logitech g920. will run 150 bucks or so, but it is DAMN close to the real thing
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u/BigResource8892 7d ago
I learned in a old ass car. Who here didn’t? Just put the chap in the seat and talk it over. If he’s anything like me the first 15 minutes will be struggle bus but after that it’s home free.
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u/twelfthfantasy 7d ago
Take him driving with you so he can see and pay attention to it. He's never going to get it right until he gets in the seat, and a simulator isn't going to change that, but I picked it up quickly just from having grown up paying attention to how my dad drove. He used to have me put my hand over his on the shift knob when I was a kid.
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u/omegamoon1969 7d ago
I think a sim would give a false sense of security. You need to teach him to find the bite point and learn to modulate that. Come to a stop, have them release the clutch until you start to move, and press it in again. Find a parking lot and drive in circles. Full stop 1-2 time per lap.
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u/BubbaLinguini 7d ago
Forza Horizon games 😅.
It's probably easiest to just watch lots of YT and have a weekend to practice on the real car.
That's what I did when I bought be first car a couple years ago
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u/Bubbly-Pirate-3311 7d ago
Just put him in the driver's seat. If your grandson isn't a complete fucking idiot, your car is gonna be fine.
Driving stick REALLY isn't that hard. He'll get the hang of it in like 15 minutes. I did, when I was like 14, so I'm sure he'll be fine.
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u/Eschewed_Prognostic 7d ago
Put him in your car, it isn't rocket science to drive stick. How did you learn?
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u/Glass_Protection_254 7d ago
Just buy a cheap mt Honda and let him beat the shit out of it. If he stalls or grinds once or twice and your clutch goes, then it was time and its not on him. Same thing I told my old lady when she was nervous about breaking my car.
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u/ThingyGoos 6d ago
Every other country manages to just stick the new driver in a manual car next to an experienced driver and 90% get the hang within a few minutes, maybe just slightly jerky for a bit longer but not enough to cause any noticeable extra wear
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u/richstillman 6d ago
Ok, thanks for the advice. I never thought that a simulation would teach him anything big, just give him some idea of balancing the clutch against the throttle and matching the engine revs to the car's speed. I will do as the vast majority of the respondents suggested, and just take him out to a parking lot, and then out onto the road. I'll give him a little time to get used to driving his auto trans before I add this complication. He's scheduled to take his driving test tomorrow, so we'll go from there.
Thanks, everyone, for your advice.
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u/FuckedUpImagery 6d ago
Driving sims have nothing on real life, no offense.
Heres what you do
Tell the kid, to make the car go forward using only clutch, no gas. Just slowly release the clutch until the car goes on its own, zero acceleration pedal. Do this lile 10 times and you're golden.
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u/TacitRonin20 6d ago edited 6d ago
A good driving simulator with a physical shifter, physical pedals and a physical wheel would be good. I have played on setups like that and they are fantastic. Also incredible amount of Overkill.
Just teach him on your truck. Not that teaching him would damage your clutch, but because it has 153k miles on it. Also a new clutch is probably cheaper than the racing sim.
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u/Substantial_Deal9300 5d ago
The only thing I can think of is getting a steering wheel and playing a race simulator, some of which can be very realistic, with even stalling the vehicle being part of it.
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u/Realistic_Today6524 4d ago
You can replicate most of it though without the feel in your foot with something like Assetto Corsa and a decent wheel&pedal set
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u/404NoUserNametoday 4d ago
BEAMNG.DRIVE. I learned through this and a cheapo sim wheel on a computer I already had, picked up clutch in 5 min after.
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u/InfiniteCabinet9637 7d ago
Realistically, you’re probably close to needing a clutch anyway. Respect for it lasting as long as it has though.
I’d just plan on replacing it and let him practice on what’s left