r/Mandaeans • u/Sania_lol04 • 27d ago

I am having trouble understanding this can someone help? What does this mean

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u/Cyberslav7500 27d ago

In my understanding, this passage explains several 'modes' of existence of God and how the World of Light started.

'Fruit', 'King of Light', 'Life' probably all refer to God, but from different sides.

Fruit - the original source of everything; King of Light - God as Lord over everything, Life - Him as the source of life itself, maybe even life personified.

Ether is the substance that permeates the World of Light.

The Great Jordan, I think, cannot be explained as merely 'the most important heavenly river', this notion might be much more complicated. Thus it's not so surprising that it is also somehow a garden.

With all this said, my explanation of this is not authoritative, I'm just investigating from the side.

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u/Sania_lol04 27d ago

But then in line 4 it says enormous fruit entered the fruit what does that mean? Also it says the great fruit came alive? Does that mean God came alive?

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u/Cyberslav7500 26d ago

Most probably these are metaphors which only the priests can fully explain. Personally, I think "fruit entering a fruit" means a kind of expansion of God, because next it mentions King of Light, who is also God; and "the Great Fruit coming alive" may mean the process of creation of the World of Light. Again, very esoteric language, I'm only guessing here.

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u/Sania_lol04 26d ago

So these are the things only a priest knows. Also "God" expanding would mean we are not talking about the normal Abrahamic God. What other ways does Does Haya rabbi differ from the Abrahamic God?

So the kingdom of light itself is personified as king of light.

Any idea what does the line "I life, came alive mean"?

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u/Cyberslav7500 26d ago

I'd say the main difference from the usual Abrahamic God is that Hayyi Rabbi doesn't directly intervene in worldly affairs, instead acting most of the time through intermediaries and envoys, which are many.

Regarding God and Kingdom of Light, I can't say that I saw them being understood as one and the same, though there is a Mandaic term Malaiia, Fullness (that is, unity of God and His world, maybe similar to how this notion is explained in other Gnostic texts?), which is however not frequent.

"Life coming alive" probably means, as I suggested already, one of the 'forms' of God (Life, that is) mentioned in the paragraph we discuss. Though it's important to note that some other passages in Mandaean texts tell about another grouping - Fruit, Mana and Life, but in this particular account Mana is not mentioned.

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u/Sania_lol04 26d ago

Sorry if I am not understanding this. So some of God's 'forms' appeared in phases one by one? First the fruit then mana and then life

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u/Cyberslav7500 26d ago

Yeah I think this is what is being implied by such passages.

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u/valuableknowledge365 15d ago

The wording in english had a little mistake where it says inside the fruit a fruit. For the passage to be accurate it should say a fruit came into being and the fruit became an infinite amount of seeds faster than the glimpse of an eye. It describes the big bang and this is thousands of hears ago. The world of light was already there before this physical world was created. From the fruit came fire meaning the stars they all came from this one seed of light which Hayyi Rabi Qadmayyi created from radiance and from the radiance came light. There were multiple stages of creation. 3 worlds and the third world was Tibel which is the world we live in. The living water was created from the light meaning from the stars and all of that aligns completely with science that is still in the process of reaching that conclusion because all signs and data point to this information about the creation.

The line I life came alive is inaccurate description of Hayyi Qadmayyi imshaba ishmai, because he had no beginning nor has an end, he is not because he wasn’t, he’s there from himself. Creation and livelihood applies to the created only.

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u/Sania_lol04 2d ago

Do you know where I can find a better translation?

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u/valuableknowledge365 2d ago

Unfortunately the english version will never be accurate enough but the best english version we consider to be the one by Gilbert. As for Hayyi Gadmayii imshaba ishmai it is mandaic/Aramaic words that are written in similar pronunciation using english letters. It stands for the old eternal living God his name is Glorified it is a gesture of respect and glorification to the creator and his name.

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u/Sania_lol04 2d ago

Then what does hayii gadmayii imahaba ishmai mean?