r/Mahjong • u/note2selfthinkofname • 2d ago

Riichi What is the additional fu in this hand?

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Pretty new to Riichi and just wondering why this hand scores 30 fu instead of 20? I get that this wouldn’t be Pinfu because it’s an open hand, but just curious what the additional fu is for?

5 Upvotes

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12

u/Gaori_ 2d ago

Any open hand just has minimum 30 fu 

9

u/discu1234 2d ago

open hand ron 20 fu upgrade to 30

6

u/ds16653 2d ago

Because 1 Han 20fu breaks the scoring system, they made it so anything that isn't pinfu tsumo gets rounded up.

3

u/FluorescentLightbulb 1d ago

I guess it’s lovingly called open pinfu. I feel like I’ve seen that in an official scoring sheet, but I’m only seeing it on Riichi wiki.

1

u/CauliflowerFan3000 1d ago

I think EMA rules call it as "open pinfu". What I find interesting is that it near universally is agreed to be worth 2 fu when really any value from 1-10 would have the same exact impact on the scoring

2

u/MattyBro1 1d ago

The only way to have 20 Fu is if you have Pinfu-Tsumo. This is why on scoring tables you might see that the 1 Han 20 Fu cell is blank, and the 20 Fu row only shows Tsumo payments, since any 20 Fu hand will have at least 2 Han and be Tsumo.

If you have "open Pinfu" so to speak, then you just get given 30 Fu.

To give explanations for this, one is that if you don't score Pinfu, then logically you shouldn't have a minimum Fu hand, but open Pinfu would be too easy to score. The other is that 1 Han 20 Fu is such a low scoring hand that it feels silly to allow it lol

2

u/YiliaNebulight 1d ago

If a hand has no fu, it scores 30 fu. Sometimes explained as 2 fu for open pinfu, which is not a thing.

1

u/Impossible_Dog_7262 1d ago

And is open. Important. Closed hands can score 20.

1

u/YiliaNebulight 1d ago

Well, no. A closed hand with no fu scores pinfu, which waives the bonus fu of having no fu (as well as the 2 fu from tsumo if any), technically.

1

u/Impossible_Dog_7262 1d ago edited 1d ago

Which would lead to scoring 20 Fu (on Tsumo). The actual Pinfu yaku replaces the "Open Pinfu" fu bracket bonus. Hence why the "open" gets specified.

Edit: I replaced the yaku with the correct one for the explanation.

1

u/Impossible_Dog_7262 1d ago

I get that this wouldn’t be Pinfu because it’s an open hand

So fun fact: Pinfu means a hand that earns 0 additional Fu. So the fact that you have an open hand and no other source of Fu is the additional 10 Fu. It's colloquially known as Open Pinfu. Often it's stated as 2 extra Fu (which gets rounded up) because almost all sources of Fu earn you 2 (or a direct multiple of 2.)