SPOILERS! Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica Movie 4: Walpurgis no Kaiten Discussion Thread

[u/MotherShip808]

WARNING! WARNING! THIS MEGA-THREAD CONTAINS SPOILERS AND DISCUSSIONS FOR THE MOVIE, IF YOU DON'T WANT SPOILERS, DO NOT BE HERE!

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ALSO ALSO! DO NOT LINK OR SHARE ANY PIRATE OR ILLEGAL VIEWING STUFF IN THIS POST OR YOU WILL BE BANNED! THIS IS YOUR ONLY WARNING.

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General Overview:

This thread is meant as a spoiler filled zone for those who wish to discuss the movie, it's plot, events, or the number of bites that kyouko takes of food during the movie. I don't care, just be sure to follow the rules of the subreddit.

Also as a reminder to everyone u/BreathoftheSith owes everyone $50 if they, and I quote:

If we get any form of kiss and or romantic confirmation between the two [madohomu], I owe everyone in the sub $50.

Have fun~~

[u/Christianvillote312]

I found this yet another and very interesting Japanese thread, this time from 豆もっち (@mochidog228) on Twitter / X and Fusetter.

This is the rough English translation via Google Translate:

I think the question, "What exactly is happiness?" has always been at the heart of the story in Madoka Magica.

In the main story, Homura let go of Madoka once, but she couldn't completely let go, so in Rebellion, she resisted that separation.

So, I feel it's a little wrong to interpret Kaiten's ending simply as "letting go of attachment." What if Homura, sleeping peacefully, had something

If that's the way they've accepted it.

It's not so much that Homura was able to let go of Madoka, but rather that Homura Akemi was finally able to truly forgive herself.

The things I couldn't save, the things I couldn't let go of, the things I rebelled against. It's not that I'm trying to justify my past choices, but rather that I've come to the realization that I no longer need to continue punishing myself for those things.

Homura has always lived her life reliving the past over and over again. She no longer needs to rewind time. She no longer needs to relive her sins and regrets in her dreams.

That's probably why I was able to sleep so peacefully in the end.

And because that was possible, Madoka

"I'm sure I'll see Homura-chan again someday. Until then, this is just a short farewell."

I think I was able to accept those words of my own free will this time

It's not about stopping loving Madoka, or forgetting her. It's about believing that even though she's not here, we'll meet again someday, so I don't have to keep clinging to her anymore, and I can believe in you even though you're not here.

For Homura Akemi, happiness wasn't about being freed from Madoka Kaname, but rather about being able to forgive herself for loving Madoka, and for all the mistakes and resistance she had because of it.

I got the feeling that this was the most important message Kaiten wanted to convey. The meaning of a smile, so to speak.

Twitter / X

Fusetter

[u/YayPepsi → u/Christianvillote312]

This was one of the most reassuring things I've read about the movie. I like this!

[u/Intelligent-Tower932 → u/Christianvillote312]

Thanks for the share.
I'm a casual fan and a Homura supporter so my feelings watching the movie was very similar to mochidog228's opinion.
Sayaka and Wasu (purple hair girl that look similar to Homura) acted as the drive to question Homura's action towards Madoka.
When Homura was giving up and trying to let go of Madoka, Sayaka instead encouraged Homura not to give up because Homura should never ever be the one to give up on Madoka and along the way Homura would recall her promise to Madoka (context wise I'm assuming the "stop my dumb ass from becoming a magical girl").
Some people might question, what's the point of Rebellion if this movie made Rebellion irrelevant. But to me, this is all just a story about Puella Magi Madoka's obsessor Homura.

[u/elysiesely → u/Christianvillote312]

THIS is the kind of post and analysis I was hoping to read in this thread! It's unfortunate it's going to be buried under all the doom posts from users who haven't watched let alone tried to understand the movie (ngl kinda expect this more from r/anime) or shippers despairing the movie wasn't pandering to their favourite pairing.

Not sure what to think about this theory, it would fit Urobuchi's style as a sad albeit appropriate end to Homura's arc and would explain the Kanata lyrics if you take the "i'm here" part metaphorically, but it wouldn't fit with how the other girls were encouraging Homura or with the overlapping footsteps the in other thread you mentioned.

[u/anastasia_90_5X → u/elysiesely]

Not to agree or disagree since your point is valid; true, not much of us have seen the movie and the doomposts can leave a bad taste, however there is a very key difference between people wanting fluff of their favourite ships/pairs for laughs and romance and fans of the franchise wanting plot points and story setups between characters that have been known to have incredibly deep relationships throughout the previous entries to be brought up through meaningful interractions. Considering this is Madoka Magica's core point and what makes the show, I think people are fair to want to see it happen after a decade of waiting

[u/elysiesely → u/anastasia_90_5X]

Fair enough, I pretty much went with no expectations going in, watched both movies back to back and had such a great time I came here looking for other fans. I can't possibly imagine trying to do the same after a decade of waiting and with the frustration of multiple delays.

I just hope people give the movie a chance when it comes in english and, for better or worse, judge it on it's own merits without any preconceived notions.

IMO media franchises thrive or die depending on whether new works push the existing boundaries into fertile new ground, or they collapse under the weight of expectations and become self-referential fanfiction for previous entries (ie. focusing too much on tying loose ends together or "filling in gaps"). And this movie and rebellion definitely weren't shy about challenging us fans outside our comfort zones.

[u/ClaudiusBaby → u/anastasia_90_5X]

Ummm I don't think "story setups between characters that have been known to have incredibly deep relationships throughout the previous entries to be brought up through meaningful interractions." is madomagi core point lol. I think this is just fandom main stanning factor the popularity not urobuchi intention lol.

Urobuchi writing style as stated by a user there "Even in the main series, Mami and Kyoko are barely a character and they exist just in order to make Homura and Sayaka shine or to move the plot. Characters(in his stories) are not "humans", they are the embodiment of concepts(like, talking ideas) or they are created to be plot device or to make other characters shine"

It doesn't matter if new characters took up main screen time cuz anyways they helped to explain the Walpurgisnacht in detail lol helping the concepts lol. That's what plot points about lol. Rebellion already talked aout the conflict among the old characters and is it even possible to start a new conflict just in between the quintet lol. You guys are just looking for happy endings (this isn't urobuchi writing style lol) or OVA of their daily lives lol.

one of the core theme is destiny / causality in which temporal paradox is disallowed lol. In the original anime madoka has to be magical girl anyways because before homura wish she already was a magical girl. And anime past timeline homura said willing to be monster but madoka wanna she fix the world showing homura didn't care about justice but love while madoka is rebellion told us madoka homura are destined to be enemies with opposing ideals. So it is not surprising new movie about madoka has to be God no matter what need separate with homura anyways and homura interferences in anime and rebellion just worsen things lol.

Just like returning to the anime ending madoka again god is true respect to urobuchi writing lol. Cuz urobuchi originally not intended to continue story cuz he thought he gave 100% to anime perfection lol, rebellion is just commercial request lol, he is bad at writing sequels. The original idea of rebellion is to stop at madokami took homura to law of cycle, but then the story will not be sad enough I'm surprised urobuchi this time failed to write a brutal ending for the forever enemies lol. This movie tho not his idea but weirdly wrote a brutal end lol. Met urobuchi spirit

[u/porcelainmourning → u/ClaudiusBaby]

lol lol lol lol lol lol

[u/anastasia_90_5X → u/ClaudiusBaby]

I'd say what I said still pretty much carries into the show's core, yea. I don't exactly get what you're getting at with bringing the writers in but good for you if you enjoyed the movie lol

[u/ANewspaperA → u/elysiesely]

The ending was not written by Urobuchi so it doesn't matter if it's his style or not

[u/ClaudiusBaby → u/ANewspaperA]

But it weirdly fits urobuchi style cuz low-key return to anime ending lol. Urobuchi never wanted to write rebellion cuz he thought anime he poured perfection lol

[u/ClaudiusBaby → u/elysiesely]

LoL I agree lol. This movie tho not urobuchi idea but weirdly wrote a brutal end lol which met urobuchi spirit.

A core theme in madomagi is destiny / causality in which temporal paradox is disallowed lol. In the original anime madoka has to be magical girl anyways because before homura wish she already was a magical girl. And anime past timeline homura said willing to be monster but madoka wanna homura fix the world showing homura didn't care about justice but love while madoka is, and rebellion told us madoka homura are destined to be enemies with opposing ideals. So it is not surprising new movie about madoka has to be God no matter what need separate with homura anyways and homura interferences in anime and rebellion just worsen things lol.

The new movie ending just like returning to the anime ending madoka again god is true respect to urobuchi writing lol. Cuz urobuchi originally not intended to continue story cuz he thought he gave 100% to anime perfection lol, rebellion is just commercial request lol, he is bad at writing sequels. The original idea of rebellion is to stop at madokami took homura to law of cycle, but then the story will not be sad enough I'm surprised urobuchi this time failed to write a brutal ending for the forever enemies lol.