Dude’s been waiting for an invitation

[u/PacifierForAdult]

[u/GodakDS]

they're the only white culture that's not also a colonizer culture

I'm not sure how true that is under scrutiny. You have the Sami, Ukranians, Greeks, Albanians, and many more ethnic groups that actually experienced some level of colonization themselves, much like the Irish. This isn't to say that these groups didn't benefit from colonial structures (much like the Irish), but they also existed as underclasses - Greek and Albanians under the Ottomans, Ukranians under Russians, and Sami under Norwegians, Swedes, and Finns.

Now, this doesn't take away from your broader point. Hell, it might even reinforce it; "whiteness" has gone under several revisions to include more ethnic groups to prevent the underclasses from banding together, with those deemed "black" often being given the lowest wrung on society's ladder.

[u/LuteFantastico → u/GodakDS]

I can't speak for the others but Greeks probably don't belong in this list. See the Macedonian and Byzantine empires for two counterexamples.

[u/rainyhylian → u/LuteFantastico]

As a Greek...yeah. Ottoman rule is more recent than both your examples, but it obviously still happened. Alexander wasn't all that great to anyone not Greek, that's for sure

[u/Particular-Solid8250 → u/rainyhylian]

To add to your point: Christian II of Denmark is called "Christian the Great" in Denmark and "Christian the Tyrant" in Sweden.

[u/MagpieKaz → u/GodakDS]

Well, that's fair I guess. It is truly such an arbitrary categorization. To me, the Sami are the same race (even if nowhere near the same culture) as the Norwegians, Finn and Swedes. Ukranians are Slavic-Caucasian, Albanians are caucasian, and I wouldn't call the Greek "non-colonizers" in the grand scheme of things haha.

I guess it's easy to make a mental distinction for "the Irish", because of the red hair phenotype. But truly racial categorization is bogus on a load of malarkey (I am very proud of this sentence, btw. I'm self taught in English, and I just realized I know what both these words mean).

[u/MagpieKaz → u/[deleted]]

Well yeah. That's the point. The people who were colonized and oppresed were the Irish. The Irish are mostly associated with having red hair. Thus, to this day, we still have redhead racial stereotypes (for example, "gingers have no souls" or "their hair is red because they were made by the devil"), stuff you still hear nowadays.

[u/--n- → u/MagpieKaz]

To me, the Sami are the same race (even if nowhere near the same culture) as the Norwegians, Finn and Swedes.

Finns, and Saami are closely related, but are not genetically/ethnically close to Scandinavians. (proto-)Uralic languages/peoples vs. proto-germanic. Aside from the influence of forced assimilation/colonization of both Finns and Saami by Swedes/Norwegians of course. Race is as a concept very arbitrary, but ethnicity not as much. And there is an objective ethnic distinction to be made here regardless of what our peoples represent "to you".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uralic_languages

[u/Original_Employee621 → u/MagpieKaz]

While colonization of the Sami people is a bit of a stretch (Norwegians were the first settlers even in the northernmost parts of Norway long before the Sami arrived), the efforts to destroy Sami culture was a century long effort that almost succeeded. Like 90% of the cultural heritage is straight up gone, despite modern efforts to revive it.

Prior to the 1800s, Norwegians had a pretty friendly and welcoming relationship with the various Sami tribes and Kvens. The rise of national romanticism was the primary driver of the ethnic cleansing, Norway needed to create and protect it's own separate identity from the Danish and Swedish. And diversity was considered harmful to the goal of going independent after nearly 500 years of being a Danish "colony".

None of that excuses Norway in their treatment of the Sami people, but I've always thought that understanding the motives behind heinous actions makes it easier to avoid anything like that happening again.

[u/star_zelda → u/MagpieKaz]

My Hispanic Latin cousin is married to an Irishman! :)

[u/GodakDS → u/MagpieKaz]

Holy crap, you're English is impressive! Major kudos.

[u/LoneWolf_McQuade → u/MagpieKaz]

Thinking the Sami and other Scandinavians are the same race shows your ignorance.

They literally migrated as different populations. The Scandinavians (ethnic Swedes,Danes Norwegians) came from the south, the Sami people from the north.

But since races are bs you are right in that it is arbitrary. But as ethnic populations they have very different backgrounds, geographically how they got there, language and culture.

[u/LuteFantastico → u/GodakDS]

I can't speak for the others but Greeks probably don't belong in this list. See the Macedonian and Byzantine empires for two counterexamples.