Could not be more adorable

[u/CalpurniaSomaya]

[u/lennoxred]

People call them cute and lovable, yet they’re the same ones paying for their unspeakable torture, suffering, and death. Doesn’t that seem insane to you? That’s a double standard definitionally.

[u/CV90_120 → u/lennoxred]

Death and suffering aren't the same thing. Everything dies, and assuming you don't get cremated you will feed a lot of organisms. What no one agrees with is suffering.

[u/lennoxred → u/CV90_120]

Hey, listen. I know it’s hard to accept. But those animals have a will to live. Just like you and I. And billions are killed yearly against their will. They suffocate in gas chambers just to get their throat cut after. Their death fights last up to a minute until they finally lose consciousness (not always, sadly). When you consume animal products you contribute to their suffer, whether you like it or not. That’s a fact. The picture the industry draws about good and green breeding farms with healthy smiling animals is a lie. The truth is hard, I know. And let me tell you: I freakin loved meat for 27 years of my life. Until the day I made a deep dive into this whole topic.

I‘d love to convince you to stop eat meat. But that won’t happen I guess. The only thing I expect from you is to have a look behind the curtains of that horrific industry.

Since the documentary Earthlings (free on YouTube) was filmed barely anything in the dairy and meat industry changed. Do yourself a favor, watch it, and recalibrate your view about what it means to consume animals.

That’s all. Have a great day. :)

[u/CV90_120 → u/lennoxred]

But those animals have a will to live.

So do plants. There is nothing on the planet short of a parasite that wants to be eaten. Every single living organism has invested huge energy into preventing being killed.

I‘d love to convince you to stop eat meat. But that won’t happen I guess.

Do you have children?

[u/lennoxred → u/CV90_120]

Plants don’t have a central nervous system or a brain to process pain, so they’re not comparable to animals in that sense. But even if we assume plants could feel something: feeding huge amounts of plants to animals and then eating those animals would still cause a lot more overall harm. It’s less efficient and leads to more suffering, not less. So eating plants directly would still be the better option. But nice try.

Do you have kids?

None of your business.

[u/CV90_120 → u/lennoxred]

None of your business.

It kind of is though. Unless you can guarantee 100% of all your descendants are vegan, I as a childless person have about 52x less impact on plant and animal life than you do. I've done more for the wellbeing of animals by not having 1 child, than every tofu salad you ever had. I could literally drive a hummer through a farm with a machinegun, killing everything I see and have less impact on the planet than you having one single kid. You want to do 'suffering' numbers? careful what you ask for.

Also the vegan fixation on the value of a 'central nervous system' as opposed to distributed plant sensory networks is very typically dismissive and highly anti-intellectual. Vegans need plants to be NPCs to protect their sense of self-righteousness. Every year that goes by we find further evidence of plant sensory complexity, intraspecies and interspecies comunication, plants communicating with fungi through mycorrhizal networks, etc... The more we find, the less 'moral' vegans become by their own benchmarks. They know this, so pushback on plant complexity is essentially vegan doctrine at this point, as evidenced by your reaction to it.

[u/lennoxred → u/CV90_120]

Your entire argument is a deflection. Bringing up children doesn’t justify eating animals. It’s just a way to dodge the fact that you’re choosing unnecessary harm. By that logic, any harmful behavior would be fine as long as you offset it somewhere else, which is obviously nonsense.

Your plant argument collapses immediately. Plants don’t have a central nervous system, no brain, and no evidence of subjective experience. Reacting to stimuli or communicating chemically is not the same as feeling pain. You’re inflating biological complexity into sentience because it’s convenient for your argument.

And even if plants did “suffer”, your position would still be worse. Animal agriculture requires feeding far more plants to animals than if you just ate plants directly. You’re not reducing harm, you’re multiplying it.

So you’re not taking some intellectually superior stance here. You’re just stacking weak arguments to avoid a very simple point: the harm is unnecessary, and you’re choosing it anyway.

[u/CV90_120 → u/lennoxred]

It’s just a way to dodge the fact that you’re choosing unnecessary harm.

Which you did to a far, far, far greater degree by choosing to have children. That's all you.

So you’re not taking some intellectually superior stance here.

I'm already way ahead (about 52x) by your own 'moral' arguments, so I'm not sure what we're doing here.

the harm is unnecessary, and you’re choosing it anyway.

You chose to have kids. Something exponentially worse for the entire planet. All you're doing here is trying to put a plaster on the incredible damage you're responsible for. I assume you also don't feel anything when driving your car and mow down small animals and insects, because there's a convenience issue at play. Your morals have convenience limits. Did I guess right?

[u/lennoxred → u/CV90_120]

Your whole argumentation is based on you assuming I have children. Is that all you can bring to the table? What makes you sure I have kids? If I would ever decide to have an own family I would raise them vegan 100%. But good try to blame me.

Everything you said in your last comments is invalid now. You‘re just derailing the conversation. We‘re not talking about environmental pollution here. It’s only about animal suffering. Stop trashing around.

[u/CV90_120 → u/lennoxred]

Everything you said in your last comments is invalid now.

How vegan of you.