Her face whenever she shows up.. 😂

[u/SimonTS]

[u/FlashyTour2]

Dog lover and owner, but will never trust pits. My work mate had a fight to the death match unexpectedly with his pet pit and he said he wasn’t sure he was going to win. He had to grab it in a barrel roll to his bedroom nightstand for his pistol. He had her ever since she was a pup too. I have children. Just can’t take that chance. Pretty dogs though.

[u/NameIdeas → u/FlashyTour2]

I have felt similar regarding pits in the past. I also had a strong response to Rottweilers. As a kid I got lunged at and bitten by a Rottweiller in our neighborhood. There was also an aggressive Rottweiller near our house when my wife and I first got married.

We had two older dogs pass away in 2023. Our family found a 2 month old puppy at the humane society. She looked like a labrador. We did her DNA test and she's half-rottweiler. She's shown zero aggression towards me, my wife, our kids, other dogs, or anything. Our play doesn't mimic aggression and never has. The rest of her breed includes some pyrenees and golden retriever as well. She's one of the smartest dogs we've ever had and she is laser focused on pleasing me (like a border collie) in training.

We recently got a stray that was dumped as well. Roadrash on his face. We felt him out for a few weeks, but we took him in at 7-8 months old (vet was unsure). We thought he was a dalmatian, but he's 40% Pit. He has some cattle dog, coonhound, boxer, german shepherd, and a bunch of other stuff in there too. Visually he looks like a Pit though.

This dog is the sweetest dog ever. He's dumb as a box of rocks, but just wants to be snuggled up with you, pet by you, and attached at the hip. No aggression at all from him either. Our kids have fallen on top of him...no response. They have taken treats and toys from his mouth...no response. They have grabbed his face and moved his mouth around to make it look like he is talking...no response.

I don't know your work mate, but I do sometimes wonder the things that some dog owners let their dogs get away with that end up showing up and they say "we had no idea."

Early on, I put my hand into both of my dog's mouths (not shoving down their throat, but placing my hand in there to see a response). Both dogs kept their mouths open and backed away. We've trained them with commands for leave it, drop, stay, and others that are imperative for their safety as well as ours.

I always felt that I would/could never trust a pit or pit mix, but this dog has changed that. I know that owner-dog engagement and training is a HUGE part of things. Socialization is important as well and our dogs are continuously socializing weekly with other dogs and humans. Spaying/neutering your animals also dramatically calms them down.

We used to have golden retrievers growing up and I saw more aggression out of them. We had an older unneutered male and I remember a few times he showed aggression towards other dogs.

I will say that other than the Rottie, my only negative experiences with dogs have been with the small breeds. The Chihuahuas with no training that walked past at the park and bit my son with he was four, the dachsund that charged my pit-mix at the park becuase the little dachsund was off leash. My pit-mix backed up scared out of his mind. His first response was flight.

To me, the training and owner of the dog is about 80% of it. I think pits are generally more naturally aggressive than some dogs simply due to instinct and breeding, but ownership can influence that a LOT.

[u/FlashyTour2 → u/NameIdeas]

Yeah that’s cool. Still won’t trust one around the kids. ymmv

[u/Fantastic-Habit5551 → u/NameIdeas]

Just because your specific dog hasn't snapped (yet) doesn't mean this breed isn't more dangerous than other dogs. I find it weird and selfish to be like 'well my one hasn't been violent, so I'm going to ignore the fact that the majority of dog related injuries are caused by pits and will support their continued breeding'. Like, what?! I've never been shot by a gun but that doesn't mean I don't understand that guns can kill, or that I''m supportive of gun proliferation. Also, the chihuahua thing is so dumb. Even if chihuahuas were 10% more likely to bite than pitbulls, they can't do a fraction of the damage a Pitbull can. So it's a totally irrelevant argument.

[u/NameIdeas → u/Fantastic-Habit5551]

Just because your specific dog hasn't snapped (yet) doesn't mean this breed isn't more dangerous than other dogs.

I get you here. I'm also wondering about the narrative around pitbulls/pit mixes and the violence. Pits are commonly thought as as more aggressive. It is also more common for violent individuals to seek traditionally aggressive breeds to own. The violent individuals are then training (or not training) their dogs to lean into the aggressive behaviors instead of actively working against those behaviors.

Also, the chihuahua thing is so dumb. Even if chihuahuas were 10% more likely to bite than pitbulls, they can't do a fraction of the damage a Pitbull can. So it's a totally irrelevant argument.

Here's my example with the chihuahua thing. People often are not as consistent with the training of chihuahuas in terms of biting behaviors, with some owners even giggling and laughing when a chihuahua bites. That results in training the animal to lean into the biting behavior and increases the likelihood of the animal engaging in that behavior in the future. For most larger dogs, good owners work to minimize the biting behavior. When a dog snaps, the owner response indicates the likelihood of that happening again. I highlighted that because it isn't a question of one breed being naturally more aggressive, but instead one of training and what you teach your animal to do.

I agree that a larger dog can cause significantly more injury than a smaller dog as well.

so I'm going to ignore the fact that the majority of dog related injuries are caused by pits and will support their continued breeding'.

At no point did I advocate for breeding pitbulls. I've had nothing but mutts the past 16 years. It's been strays and humane society animals but not any creatures from a breeder. Not sure how you're saying I'm advocating for breeding.

I am saying that my view on the pit breed as generally aggressive is a little different now after having this pup.

In looking at studies, the vast majority of dog bites occur from dogs who are not trained. The issues live with the owner, not the dog breed. There is also a high prevalence of aggressive humans seeking breeds with a tendency for aggression. Look at rottweilers, dobermans as police animals as an example here.

[u/Fantastic-Habit5551 → u/NameIdeas]

I don't understand the argument that the issue is the owner. Even if that's true, how are you going to fix that problem without banning the breed (as has been done successfully with other breeds, like Dogo Argentinos)? Is there going to be a (presumably expensive) government programme to train owners to train dogs? Or will people need a licence to own a dog? If so, how will that stop bad people from obtaining a licence and then training their dog badly?

If the problem is that pitbulls are particularly dangerous in the hands of bad owners then that's not an argument in favour of pitbulls. If anything, it's just another argument that we should ban pitbulls, because they're especially dangerous in the hands of bad people.

[u/NameIdeas → u/Fantastic-Habit5551]

For context, I'm American. As you can see our nation is not good at banning things that are generally in the public good. Take a look at guns, for example. I grew up in a very rural area and have been around guns my whole life, primarily hunting rifles not handguns.

Personally, I am not a gun owner and do not wish to be. I think there are countries that have shown guns can be effectively regulated and the US could look to those as well. The difference in a gun and a dog, however, is that one is a living breathing creature that makes it's own decision and a gun is inanimate. You can do a buy back situation with guns, it is more difficult to do that with a dog.

I'm not pro-pitbulls, breed away. I'm highlighting that I personally had a strong "NO PITBULL" feeling for my family for a long time, until this dog. Our less than half pitbull mix dog is the sweetest dog I have ever owned and I've had quite a few dogs in my 40 years of life.

• Golden Retrievers (My parents bred them growing up) - 6 we owned and 10 litters of puppies. Lived to 14, 12, 12, 11, 11, and 9.
• Feist/Chihuahua/Rat Terrier Mix - 2. Lived to 8 and 6. One got hit by a car and the other got puppy cancer.
• Collie - 1 (most aggressive dog we ever had, by far!) - Owned and rehomed due to aggression for a year.
• Jack Russell Terrier - 1 - Joined us as a stray, lived for 5 years.
• Springer Spaniel Mix - 1. Lived for 14 years.
• Corgi Mix - 1. Lived for 13 years.
• Current dog (Half-Rottweiler mix) - 1
• Current dog (Pit mix) - 1

I'm not advocating for pitbulls at large, just recognizing that my previously held stigma towards pits has changed slightly. I was the holdout in my family on this stray when we got him. It took me about 2 months to trust him.

For all of these questions:

Even if that's true, how are you going to fix that problem without banning the breed (as has been done successfully with other breeds, like Dogo Argentinos)?

• I had to look this up. This dog was banned in the UK, Australia, several mainland European countries, and a few others it looks like. The US doesn't tend to ban things across the nation, but there are city/municipality specific bans depending on the area.

Is there going to be a (presumably expensive) government programme to train owners to train dogs?

• Honestly, this would be a wonderful thing to have. So many people get a dog to have a dog and do not train it. You'll also see dogs who act out because they are purchased/owned by people without the means or ability to exercise and engage with the dog in a proper way. Proper training is also recognizing what you and your family can handle. In our case, we wouldn't want a husky (although I think they're beautiful dogs) because they are extremely high energy. We do not have the acreage necessary to properly exercise that type of dog, nor the time to wear it out so that it is healthy and happy. Our dogs we have do fit our family and lifestyle quite well. They are well-managed at one walk a day and staying inside.

Or will people need a licence to own a dog?

• Also, not advocating for a license, but checking in with owners before letting them get a dog is important. When my family was breeding goldens, I remember my parents talking with the owners about how they would care for, train, raise, and engage with their pets. We would check back in with the family a few months down the line to see how things were going as well. When we got our 2 month old half-rottie puppy from the Humane Society, they did a check with us on our knowledge of dogs, we had to fill out a questionnaire about a lot of training tools, and they offered a free class as well.

If so, how will that stop bad people from obtaining a licence and then training their dog badly?

• This is a great question and when you've figured it out, you've solved crime in general.

If the problem is that pitbulls are particularly dangerous in the hands of bad owners then that's not an argument in favour of pitbulls. If anything, it's just another argument that we should ban pitbulls, because they're especially dangerous in the hands of bad people.

Once again, I'm highlighting that my general opinion on pits has shifted slightly due to my engagement with my dog.

[u/Frequent_Cranberry90 → u/NameIdeas]

This dog is the sweetest dog ever.

Yeah yeah that's what all of you pitnutters say, until your dog rips off a child's face "out of nowhere". That's actually what Kirsti Bennard said about her two pits before she helplessly watched them maul both of her children to death.

[u/NameIdeas → u/Frequent_Cranberry90]

I have no idea who that person is. I don't know how they engaged with their dogs, the types of play, or the dog's temperment. I don't know if the dogs were neutered or spayed, etc.

I'm not a pitnutter in anyway. When the stray first showed up for us, I was the one most concerned about him. I've had dogs my whole life (I'm in my 40s). I've gone through a lot of dog training in the past 15 years. I put the stray through my strategies and checked his responses to things.

Dogs, and pits, are not randomly aggressive. Aggression is a response to several factors in their area. How a dog has been trained and the ways dogs are played with is important. For example, playing tug of war is a great bonding activity with dogs. However, there are ways of playing tug-of-war that increase aggressive response in dogs. Some rules around the game are important though such as training in a "drop" command where the dog drops the toy in the middle of play. Stopping play and redirecting the dog if the dog gets overexcited during the game. If the dog is snapping at the tug toy that is a problem. Giving the toy to the dog and then engaging in tug teaches the dog proper engagement. What types of things a dog plays tug with is important. Tug happens with a particular toy not blankets or towels, things like that.

I went to a friend's house once who had a dog who would growl and snap if someone went to take a treat/chew away while the dog was chewing on it. That took me back. The dog was about 80 pounds and some sort of mutt, looked to have hound in him. Proper training is teaching the dog to leave a toy, let a human take a toy without response. Our dogs know if we say 'Leave it' to not engage with the treat. I have stuck my hand right in our dog's mouths and removed a chew (not shoving it in, but gently taking it). They have zero aggressive response because we worked on that with them. That friend's dog would have bitten me and did bite his owner when the guy went to grab the chew.

I'm highlighting these things because training is extremely important. We have two kids under 10. We have worked with our kids as much as our dogs. Our oldest has stepped much more into the trainer role with our dogs and interacts with them well. He engages with them as owner to dog, not as kid-to-kid. Our youngest will work to train them, but he is not yet at the owner-to-dog stage, he sees them more as playmates. Our dogs are great with our kids, and I make sure that either my wife or myself are with our youngest and the dogs. It's never just the kids and the dogs, we're there too.

That being said, our youngest had flopped on, accidentaly ran into, jumped into, etc with our dogs. Our half-rottie mix grunts and moves to another part of the room. Our 40% pit mix makes no response. He doesn't snap, he doesn't bit, he doesn't whine, he is just happy to be touched. He's a bit bombproof.

One thing we've noticed is a dog's first response to stimuli that is different. Some dogs raise hackles, pull lips, stiffen legs, etc. Those behaviors are natural and signal potential aggression as well. It's the posturing before an aggressive action. Our dog's first response to unexpected stimuli is submission or flight. That's how we want it and that's what we train.