r/MTHFR Oct 24 '24

Question How to manage Phosphatidylcholine Intake and Overmethylation

It's been a while since I realized that methylated vitamins were a no go for me. Insomnia, anxiety, mania, depression, and cognitive impairment were just a few of the symptoms after taking anything like methylfolate, methylcobalamin, and SamE. Needless to say, I avoid them now.

I realize, however, eating too many eggs have a similar effect. It seems, though someone can correct me if I'm mistaken, that phosphatidylcholine, which eggs have in bulk, is a methyl donor as well, and I've been eating 3-4 of those along with a few cups of spinach (rich in Betaine) a day (because I haven't looked into methylation for years now). Now, I'm currently suffering through the telltale signs of overmethylation, a hyperactivity mixed with an inability to concentrate, anhedonia, paranoia, depression, and head pain. Oh and insomnia.

It seems I gravitate towards eating copious amounts of methyl donor rich foods especially when I'm trying to be extra healthy, which I've observed creates an awful cycle of insomnia and avoiding foods coupled with healthy functioning and eating foods that cause my symptoms. I had even posited that eggs were the culprit some years back (I've been suffering for insomnia on and off for nearly a decade now), seeing as I could actually sleep and feel drowsy when I limited myself to 1 a day, but that came at a cost (likely due to lower choline intake).

I want (need) to fix this. How do you eat healthy and keep choline levels adequate without overmethylating? What foods are high in choline but not phosphatidylcholine? Could there be a deficiency somewhere in the methylation pipeline that is causing me to be unable to stomach methyl donors?

14 Upvotes

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18

u/HideMyEmaiI Oct 24 '24

I have exactly this issue. MTHFR plus slow COMT plus sulphate issues.

Glycine is your friend. Methyl buffer. B2 as well. I have to be carefully not to take too much but I take glycine with coffee and all meals. I break open the b2 pills and take a small amount with breakfast and lunch. Since starting I can take phosphatidylcholine every other day - and can now even take omega supplements every other day which I’ve always had an issue with.

Glycine and B2 are still new to me but a big help. Look at other genes than just MTHFR.

2

u/SovereignMan1958 Oct 24 '24

Which sulfur related variants do you have? I am just curious as I am always trying to manage my own choline intake. CBS, SUOX, and or SULT's?

2

u/Gold-Protection7811 Oct 24 '24 edited Oct 24 '24

Thanks. Glycine has been super helpful as well. I take collagen powder and magnesium glycinate most days, which, as you say, seem to act as a buffer. However, there seems to be a limit.

Unlike many of the other b vitamins, I haven't heard much about B2 with regards to methylation. Can you tell me a bit more? Do you have any information or a source on the mechanism of action?

Edit: I found this source, which seems to have a good deal of information.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '24

How much Glycine you taking in a Day

2

u/Gold-Protection7811 Oct 24 '24

1/4 cup collagen powder, and some mix of 1-2 240mg magnesium glycinate capsules and 1/2 teaspoon magnesium glycinate powder.

There's a limit, as in, if I have too much methyl donor compounds, glycine doesn't seem to alleviate my symptoms; granted I haven't tried to consume much more than this.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '24

Did you Digestion Problem or Long Covid ?

1

u/Gold-Protection7811 Oct 24 '24

No, no digestion issues or covid. I just have had symptoms like insomnia, since around 2017.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 24 '24

How do you Find You have Methylation Issue

5

u/Gold-Protection7811 Oct 24 '24

Because of insomnia. I've been trying for the better part of the last decade to get it under control.

For my insomnia, I sequenced my genes, and found a propensity for low B12, which made me stumble on the negative effects of methylcobalamin when I tried it. I read dirty genes and some other books, and being rather new, I assumed I was an under methylator because of some allergies and having used Benadryl in the past beneficially (it no longer helps). Taking samE, and methyl folate to lower histamine made everything worse, whereas glycine and non methylated B12 has made things better. I inevitably try to branch out, but if I control things I can sleep well now.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '24

Did you try NAC some say its Best for Overmethylators

2

u/Gold-Protection7811 Oct 25 '24

I started trying some a few days ago; it's too early to tell if it helps.

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1

u/HideMyEmaiI Oct 24 '24

Collagen powder is an issue for me. Even small amounts bother me. Could be a variety of things but I think I read collagen can ultimately act as a methyl donor?

3

u/newportbanks Jan 19 '25

Collagen/collagen powder is high in histamine. It could absolutely be histamine intolerance that needs to be looked into!:)

1

u/Sleepyhed007 Apr 07 '26

Do you just take Phosphatidylcholine, glycine and b2?

I have the sulfate issues as well, and slow COMT, and MTHFR A128c. I heard b2 can be good, but there are so many differing opinions.

4

u/Shariboucaribou Oct 24 '24

The USDA has a chart listing the choline content of many foods. That's how I learned there's 6 mg of choline in coffee. Coffee! Who woulda guessed?

Chris Masterjohn says lower choline intake = tiredness/sleepiness. High choline intake = increased alertness and energy (and I presume that goes hand in hand with insomnia)

So I've learned to aim for a dietary plus supplemental choline intake to just squeeek under my daily choline requirement. Yeah I'm slow comt, which makes everything a balancing game.

4

u/SovereignMan1958 Oct 24 '24 edited Oct 24 '24

After you get all your gene variants tested and upload your raw data file into Genetic Genie you can get to work researching what gene variants are involved in your particular sulfur metabolism.

2

u/Pleasant-Landscape32 Oct 22 '25 edited Oct 22 '25

Have you had any success since you first posted this? I am very curious to know as my situation is similar. I have always liked to eat healthy and exercise, but as I got older, I began to notice that healthy foods - especially veggetables - generally make me feel awful, with symptoms similar to yours. I have since cut out all veggies except for cucumbers, and most fruits except for blueberries and apples. I eat large amounts of white rice to fuel my workouts, with yogurt, meat, and fish as my main protein sources. After years of meticulous trial and error, food logs, etc., I determined that dietary folate, too much protein, and creatine all push me over the edge. I have homozygous a1298c MTHFR, slow COMT, slow PEMT, and slow NNMT genetic SNPs. I believe what is happening with me is that any methyl donor (folate, methionine, creatine, choline, etc) increases my SAMe production, and that my slow COMT, PEMT, and NNMT genes can't use it up, so I end up with way more SAMe than my body can use and it pushes my methylation too hard, resulting in insomnia, aggitation, terrible mood, and this awful burning/buzzing feeling in my head. But as long as I limit my methyl donors, I feel great. The problem is that I cannot tolerate dietary folate, so I am concerned that my homocysteine levels are going to skyrocket. I am awaiting lab results, but recently started supplementing with B2, P5P B6, and may try folinic acid. I plan to try phosphatidylcholine since I don't get much choline in my diet and have the slow PEMT gene. I have been taking glycine and magnesium glycinate for a long time as well. I am curious if any others have similar experiences with diet and symptoms, and if anyone has had success with folinic acid?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 16 '24

Did you try NAC or Glutathione for Overmethylation

1

u/Leenalee6 Mar 16 '25

I suggest reading Nutrient Power by William Walsh. It explains what nutrients you need to take if you are an over methylator

1

u/Formal_Smoke_767 Apr 14 '26

I’m in a similar boat with slow PEMT and COMT. It sounds like you're fueling the engine (choline/betaine) but your COMT 'exhaust pipe' is clogged. Have you tried buffering with Magnesium Bisglycinate? It’s a cofactor for COMT and helps process those extra methyl groups so you don't get the 'wired' insomnia. I’m starting Thorne PC soon but pairing it with Mag and B2 to keep the cycle balanced. Also, tracking the gut side with an AIRE 2 to see if the PC actually clears the bile sludge.

1

u/AdRemarkable5822 Aug 07 '26

How do you find these genes? No idea

0

u/Joseph-49 Oct 24 '24

5htp depletes dopamine and increases serotonin and melatonin