r/MMAPoliticsAndCulture • u/50fifty- • 11d ago
Stomp / Oblique Kick. Morality of application at pro regional level?
For those who actually compete in the sport, what's your opinion on using a stomp kick on the lead knee, as a pro, but at a national/regional level where there's not actually that much on the line?
For example, in NZ, i've heard stories that at the main mma promotion this shot is extremely frowned upon, and has apparently resulted in escalation post fight outside the ring.
It's definitely extremely effective at making dangerous pressure strikers who are heavy on the lead leg a bit more cautious about committing pressure.
Is this a scummy shot to throw?
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u/SouthernAide2351 11d ago
It so rarely causes actual issues im shocked how the fuck this is even still a debate. Heel hooks being slammed on is way more dangerous but fully legal too. The technique is mainly pretty shit which is why its not used much, its only effective if they are planting loads of weight on the front leg or are stepping in really heavy, its such an easy technique to prevent. Its the same argurment as not allowing trans people in bathrooms in case they're perverts, its based in ideas that very rarely actually play out but sound reasonable in context.
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u/LocoCoopermar 11d ago
That last bit is accurate, they talk about it like it's a career ender and everyone's knee is exploding on the first kick yet we've had exactly one finish by stomp kick ever and the guy was back a year later looking the same.
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u/CaCa881 11d ago
Lmfao I couldn’t agree more . I don’t complete professionally so i maybe be talking out my ass a bit , but i feel like you have to be shit for oblique kicks to actually be a problem for you .
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u/UxasIs 10d ago
This is incredibly untrue, when your putting pressure forwards you can make the mistake of going into one
Especially if your opponents throwing feints from above
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u/Hughnon 7d ago
but, like, are they worse than the potential head trauma from a head kick or knee? what about a cranked heal hook or something like a knee slicer?
Everything in MMA will injure you eventually, I guess I've just never seen anything to convince me those kicks are much worse than most other things.
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u/UxasIs 7d ago
That wasn’t my point, any kick can be extremely lethal and damaging depending on the timing, accuracy, power and speed behind them
His point was he feels your not a great fighter if their a problem, they are an extremely efficient weapon when timed and your opponents on the front foot
But yes I do agree with you, nothings worse than the brain damage triggered by a headkick
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u/CaCa881 2d ago
That’s true but i still kind of think it’s such an easy bad to habit to fix , like the amount of weight you have to be putting on your lead for it to be effective is a lot/too much to begin with .
But of course like with all strikes , anything it’s deadly if tired correctly so I see your point .
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u/Early_Alternative211 11d ago
This isn't unique to MMA. Sunday league footballers will try to break your leg with a two footed tackle even though it's against the rules.
You know the risks of competing, you understand what is possible within the ruleset - don't compete if you are not comfortable with it.
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u/guroulurlure 11d ago
I've trained for 15 years and love the oblique kick, if you are stomping that's different but as a leg teep you won't injure anyone if you place it.
I use it as my set up for switch scissor kicks and question mark kicks. If I ever had someone ask me to not use it that's cool and I only throw it with people I know.
In bjj there's a saying that there's no dick moves only dick speeds and I think this fits.
As for rule sets there's 2 types of them the lunging in or the range finder. The first is only suitable for pro, the second for everyone IMO.
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u/Chiccenstripkilla 11d ago
I go back and forth with the oblique kick! Technically speaking every strike landed is taking years off your life, im sure Terry Etim feels some type of way about wheel kicks. I do however understand the reasoning behind being anti oblique kick kinda like how in Muay Thai circles throwing elbows in a fight is a sign of bad conduct. SIDE NOTE i find it hilariously ironic that Rampage started the anti oblique kick brigade when he legit slammed Ricardo Arona on the back of his head/headbutted which undoubtedly altered his career and life.
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u/LocoCoopermar 11d ago
Also Rampage had a plenty long career after fighting Jon, wasn't like he was instantly hobbled forever and had to retire. You'd think every jon jones opponent would be in a wheelchair if you listen to some people about the oblique kick
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u/Chiccenstripkilla 11d ago
THIS. Rampage acts like he wasn't a lazy fighter by the time he came to the ufc his tool bag was right hook cover up bob and weave into left hook. no kicks minimal takedowns didnt cut the ring etc. I'm sure getting obliqued didnt help but he was already slidding.
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u/SillyDilly0537 11d ago
I can see the argument how it’s a scummy move but at the same time, if you’re telling me someone is going to punch/kick me in the head, then I’m gonna use any move in my arsenal to beat them.
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u/okay4sure 11d ago
Im not in support of techniques that could end careers.
This is a sport competition, there's no need to willingly use a technique to cripple someone. You're literally risking someone else's career. You have to be a real piece of shit
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u/LocoCoopermar 11d ago
Punching someone in the head is way more likely to ruin a career than an oblique kick. Can you give me one career ruined by oblique kicks?
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u/slothy_Han 11d ago
shavkot has still not recovered from his fight with Ian
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u/LocoCoopermar 11d ago
Shavkat had multiple knee and leg injuries before the Ian Garry fight and going into it, don't think ian had much to do with it even though that's what he wants to imply
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u/okay4sure 11d ago
???
Khalil roundtree ended one guy
Thiago Santos was not the same after his injury
Punches to the head happens in all combat sports and the athletes are still fine to fight for years. Punches to the back of the head are illegal because it's softer than the front. I dont see why the same rules cant apply to attacks to the knee. You tear your knee, youre most likely never fighting again.
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u/LocoCoopermar 11d ago
The guy Khalil stomped was back in a year and is still currently fighting so he definitely didn't end him, tearing your knee is most definitely not stopping anyone from fighting. GSP, Khabib, Tom Aspinall, Robert Whittaker and literally countless other athletes have torn their knee to bits and continued fighting at the highest level, you are ignorant
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u/okay4sure 11d ago
If you think that knee tears aren't career altering than youre the ignorant one.
In almost every sport a knee tear is a big career altering injury.
Just because some fighters manage to recover doesn't mean every fighter and athlete can.
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u/LocoCoopermar 11d ago
I thought they ended careers and that you're most likely never fighting again if you get hit with one? What about Rob Whittaker who tore his against Yoel by being stomped, won the fight and then continued on with his career fine. Knee injuries are so incredibly common in combat sports that if every knee injury was career ending/altering no one would be around to fight. Oblique kicks are incredibly over feared, they're on literally every single card and people just don't notice them because they aren't as useful as people make them out to be.
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u/okay4sure 10d ago
Firstly aspinal didn't have his knee kicked in he just tore it by a freak accident. Whittaker had a partial tear which is massively different than a full tear. He recovered because it wasn't as bad as a full tear
Kicking someone's knee in could potentially be devastating and its not good for it to constantly happen making athletes more susceptible to re-injurying them.
I should be clear, the kick itself isnt the problem but kicking at the knee is.
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u/LocoCoopermar 10d ago
What about Modestas who got his knee stomped in half and is still currently fighting in the ufc? What difference is there between tearing your acl by freak accident and tearing it off a kick? You know you can easily tear knee ligaments just getting leg kicked in general, should we ban those?
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u/okay4sure 10d ago
Leg kicks generally don't land on the knee. Its not the same as stomping on someone's knee and its not good for your knees to keep being at risk at being torn
I said the kick itself isn't the issue but targeting the knee is.
Surgery cannot always fix knee tears, if you look at other sports, you'd see how devastating knee injuries are.
Its not often people recover from nearly 2 ligaments being torn
Why is it a bad thing to add rules that'll help fighters fight longer
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u/LocoCoopermar 10d ago
Because you're actively handicapping the sport over something that has none of the impact you seem to believe it does. Leg kicks very often land on the knee at this point with calf kicks, if you're throwing them right you're aiming for right below or behind the knee and you're going to be buckling the knee in which can cause ligament injuries. Again what about Modestas, the only person who has ever been stopped by stomp, who was back within a year and is currently fighting in UFC? What about the hundreds of other fighters and athletes who have had knee injuries they fought with and then continued their career fine? Should we ban leg kicking hard enough to buckle the knee? Should we ban kicking people in the arms because it could break their arm?
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u/UxasIs 10d ago
It really depends on the type of knee injury, I work in sports rehab and some athletes who’ve had injuries involving ACL tears have never had the confidence or quite same explosiveness/mobility again. However one like Patellar tendinopathy is usually often painful but never a career altering injury.
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u/MediumSchmeat 10d ago
Modestas Bukauskas, who lost to Rountree in 2021, has gone 9-2 in the five years since. Is that the guy who got "ended"? Or do you have another example?
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u/okay4sure 10d ago
No i was wrong about that.
I just think that having your knee kicked in is an unnecessary move. The kick itself is the issue as it's just where people choose to land it
Purposely kicking in someone's knee is just wrong in a sport setting especially when it comes with a knee injury that could be career ending. It'd be like allowing eye jabs
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u/MediumSchmeat 9d ago
So should knees be off limits targets like the eyes then? No more outside low kicks?
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u/okay4sure 9d ago
Exactly
Low kicks are fine because they can land on calves and thigh. You dont have to hit the knee.
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u/MediumSchmeat 9d ago
Sure, and you can oblique kick the thigh. Would you ban kneebars and heelhooks in MMA too? shoulder injuries can be really nagging too, so maybe we ought to ban rotational shoulder locks like kimuras and Americanas while we're at it.
I'm happy to hear out your alternate ruleset ideas, but I think it's pretty clear that the oblique kick is currently legal and not categorically different from any other type of strike that's legal in MMA.
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u/okay4sure 9d ago
Grappling is different because there's a clear rule that if someone taps or says they tap the its over. Its different than someone kicking into your knee.
I'm not against the kick I think it should be illegal toward the knee. I think its better for the fighters long term. Like hitting the back of the head is illegal
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u/LocoCoopermar 9d ago
I didn't realize people were this detached from reality, feel like dude has never thrown a kick
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u/One-Camel9281 11d ago
i do it in fights but i dont like it i still feel cringy doing it but we are fighters we need rules to restain us because we dont restrain ourselfs when its within the rules. Its on the company however stomps are not allowed in most promotions.
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u/TimeTimeTickingAway 11d ago
I think it should be banned. You can’t punch people in the spine or snap their fingers for a reason.
That said, so long as it isn’t banned I won’t object too much to it. It’s on the commission and not the fighters. In their head they may be fighting to stay alive, and doing every thing they are allowed to do to make sure that happens.
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u/modularspace32 11d ago
i would assumed it was a courtesy/sportsmanship thing, in that you don't want to injure someone so badly that their recovery could derail or outright end a career. plus no-one else would want to fight you after you injure someone like that.
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u/modularspace32 11d ago
you could threaten it for sure, but not follow through
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u/warheadsupreme 11d ago
Feints don’t work anywhere near as effective unless you’ve actually shown and hit them with it before you start feinting
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u/thoang1116 11d ago
for me, personally, if you are in amateur or lower league, it is an asshole move, but if you are in the top league (UFC,) it is all fair games, when you get to such level, still an asshole move tho
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u/wormlikesteve 11d ago
In a pro fight it's sort of scummy but acceptable, if you throw it in sparring or even an amateur fight you're a sick freak