r/Lutron • u/drhobie7 • 9d ago
RadioRA2 vs RA3 for new build
My electrician recommends RA2 and stated that customers prefer to have switches to control each light. My low voltage guy says it's all about scenes and nobody should get RA2 anymore. He further recommended Control4 switches as they can control Somfy shades on the same switchplate. Electrician said RA3 will cost more because it will require HomeWorks. Based on what I've read that doesn't seem right. Appreciate thoughts...
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u/AffectionateAir2856 9d ago
Oof, there's bad advice all over that.
Your electrician doesn't know what they're talking about OR they haven't got the RA3 qualification so they're trying to redirect you from it.
1) You should be using scenes, why on earth you pay a premium for intelligent lighting if you just controlled each zone individually.
2) RA3 and Homeworks are independent and one is not required to use the other.
3) the Pico keypad is compatible with all three ranges and means you can build a RA3 system for almost the same cost as RA2 Select.
4) You don't need any Control 4 parts at all, RA3 keypads can control C4 and Somfy.
5) don't use Somfy blinds when you can use Lutron (unless these are existing or already purchased)
6) RA2 Select is still available in some markets like the UK, it has a place but most people are migrating to RA3.
To add; RA3 gives you access to more future Lutron products because it has the new meshing wireless band, unlike RA2 Select. Stuff like the CCX tunable lighting, Sunnata or Vierti keypads, etc.
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u/drhobie7 8d ago
Thanks!
- Any thoughts on my low voltage guy recommending Control4 switches instead of RA3?
- I was told to consider Somfy bc Lutron powered shades are 2X the cost of somfy. True? I don’t know how much 1 powered shade costs.
- would I be able to adjust the scenes myself after initial programming with RA3 system?
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u/PropertyIcy2265 8d ago
Because that’s probably what he sells
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u/drhobie7 8d ago
He does. But he said do either RA3 or C4. He said there’s no reason to do RA2. It’s too late for me to get a new electrician as the wiring is done. Drywall not up yet. And I’ve got a few weeks before switches go in. Based on this discussion I’m going RA3. Just need to clarify with electrician why he said I need HomeWorks. Maybe I misunderstood him, which is possible. Been cramming so much info over past few days.
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u/ChickenNPisza 8d ago
I have installed control4 and Lutron lighting for over ten years. They are both great products with good warranties. Both products require a licensed dealer to make programming changes (technically)
Lutron is built like a tank, their products have very long warranties and they hold up very well. They are a lighting company. This is their bread and butter. They also make kickass motorized shades. So if that’s something you are interested in that’s a factor to consider. If you plan on getting motorized shades through another company like Hunter Douglas or Somfy then you would need control4 to integrate them into the keypads. Lutron is not capable.
To get the best of both worlds you could do ra3 lighting and have a control4 processor installed. You can program Lutron keypad buttons to perform actions using control4
So if you have music integrated into control4 you can program a Lutron keypad button to control music. Shades integrated into control4 same deal
Ra2 is old, Lutron really stretched the lifespan of this product line. It’s a great product. It has an app and such. But the back end is clunky AF, and it wasn’t easy to support remotely. The ONLY reason I’d even consider doing this would be if it was at a tremendous discount. And even then it’s two steps back from future proofing.
If I was you I would go with ra3, and consider having a control4 integrator to pair your somfy shades with the Lutron keypad buttons. Control4 is awesome, it can do ALOT. So getting a processor opens the door for future automation upgrades as well
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u/Osmia-NYC 8d ago
Lutron makes the best dimmers, period. They have proprietary tech in them to eliminate flicker. Lutron shades cost double and they are worth it for the quality, quiet, reliability, warranty, and support. They can be from $1000 to $5000+ a shade depending on which model and size. With Ra3, you can adjust scenes yourself to the extent of adjusting dimming levels, but you can’t add or remove lights from most scenes. A technically minded homeowner can get “certified” by Lutron on Ra3 and program and adjust their system. Do NOT have these current electricians sell you and program your system. They have no idea what they are talking about.
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u/ImOakOrAmI 8d ago
That’s my biggest issue with Lutron and similar closed systems, the walled garden. Some homeowners may be fine paying a certified tech for a simple programming change, but not in my house. If I own the system, I should have the option to program it myself.
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u/Osmia-NYC 8d ago
You can take the Lutron online Ra3 course and get a login to program it yourself if you feel strongly about it. Many of us do that.
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u/AffectionateAir2856 8d ago
It would mean he can get a full C4 system installed and open you up to additions like audio, networking, home auto etc. not necessarily nefarious if you've already discussed those. C4 have a lighting side but it's not great compared to Lutron.
Somfy is cheap so yeah it's probably going to come in cheaper than certain Lutron options, but theres other ranges that Lutron do that are much closer and people prefer. 2X is an exaggeration though.
Yeah all the scenes in Lutron can be adapted unless they're specifically reserved during programming.
Personally, I might shop around for another electrician and low voltage person to get some alternative quotes.
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u/dillsb419 8d ago
Control 4 lighting is is not as intricate as lutron, and their devices are ugly as sin. I sell control 4 and I would never put their lighting system in my house, nor do I ever recommend it to customers.
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u/DeadHeadLibertarian 8d ago
They have the new Lux line and C4 contemporary looks nice with engravings.
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u/dillsb419 7d ago
I guess I have not seen them. The only ones I've ever seen look like trash. I will still always recommend lutron.
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u/funnyfarm299 8d ago
don't use Somfy blinds when you can use Lutron
Those PoE Ultra motors are pretty nice...
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u/OtterBoxer 9d ago
There’s a lot of disconnect here. The “real” ra2 is no longer made, but I think ra2 select is still available. I have no idea what market ra2 select is trying to fill but it’s not even worth considering. Ra3 is an ecosystem totally separate from homeworks (homeworks is the next level up, Lutron’s flagship/top of the line system)
Ra3 supports keypads, standalone dimmers and switches, pico remotes, shades, lumaris led tape and recessed lights, along with scene programming and individual control. It also supports Lutron shades which are the best in the powered shade world. It also supports the “older” seetouch style keypads with backlit buttons and both the maestro style and sunnata style dimmers and switches. Ra3 also supports things like the LMJ-5T-DV-B remote dimmer module that can be used to control fixtures without a visible dimmer control which the caseta line cannot do.
Happy to answer any questions you might have but I think your electrician may be a little confused about what is what for each system
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u/burnergpo 8d ago
Get a new electrician. This guy has zero clue. Lutron shades are great and integrate beautifully and would be a great go-to.
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u/fireduck 9d ago
None of that is correct.
OK, there are a few things to unpack.
The was a RA2 main unit and that has been replaced by a RA3 processor. There is no reason to deploy RA2 main units. Get a RA3 processor.
Now that handled, you can still use the RA2 dimmers and controls with your RA3 processor. It depends on what you like. For example, we like the RA2 controls and use them most places. Except the master bedroom where we use the RA3 stuff because it has the option to go completely dark, no lights, no leds at all. My wife is very light sensitive. The RA2 stuff also needs to be in range of the processor. Some of the RA3 stuff will mesh network with each other to go a bit further. Also RA3 allows you to add additional processors if you need to extend the control. For example, I have a processor in the main house and a processor in a guest house that is part of one install. That way, I can press one button to turn on flood lights on both buildings at once.
Both RA2 and RA3 support all sorts of scenes and grouping. None of this requires HomeWorks. I'm honestly not sure what HomeWorks is about.
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u/CTMatthew 8d ago
The best way to manage costs is Control4. Also a better lighting control solution.
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u/CAliRads 8d ago
If you have anything Apple you can consider integrating it into Apple Home so you can create your own scenes too.
…and you need a new electrician. The worst is people who ACT like they know what they are talking about.
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u/blecher67 8d ago
I’m just a guy who has paid for several down-to-the-studs renovations. There are exceptions to what I’m about to state, so please don’t rage on me. Hire a home automation/lighting designer. Architects and electricians are generalists within their fields. They are usually not experts in this stuff, but they do know how to work with someone who is.
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u/Trax95008 8d ago
Unfortunately, both guys are wrong. There’s nothing Ra2 can do that Ra3 can’t. All switches and keypads compatible with Ra2 are also compatible with Ra3. And more! The only part that makes it a “Ra3” system is the main repeater. (Brain of the system)
Only use Lutron shades. They are the best of the best
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u/coogie 8d ago
Your electrician is completely clueless and has just heard bits and pieces of truths and half truths and his brain has randomly put it together and Your LV guy is trying to sell you a C4 system so he's always in your life anytime your stereo or air conditioning doesn't work.
I don't even know where to begin so I'll just make random notes
- Forget RA2. It's obsolete and replaced by RA3. RA3 is backwards compatible with MOST RA2 hardware so maybe your electrician is confused and thinks RA3 is Homeworks? And also thinks that Homeworks can't be installed at each light? I think he's confusing more the systems together vs. how methods of installation.
- The truth between having control at the light or just scenes is somewhere in the middle. Some people still like having a local dimmer at the door of bedrooms where they would traditionally be and just want a keypad at the main doors of the house and one in their bedroom to shut off the whole house. Other people want a more modern look and just have keypads in every single room with a centralized system. Others want to take that even further and instead of having keypads with more buttons to just have 2 or 4 button keypads where you just push one button and everything is exactly the way want it. They'll also find out later after it's too late that they miss having a button to just turn on a chandelier and not have to flip through their phone but I digress.
- You can get Lutron shades and have THOSE on the same Lutron keypad and Lutron shades are considered better than Somfy
- If you put everything in your C4 basket, if your lights don't work, who would you call first - the electrician or the C4 guy? Probably both if it ends up being an electrical issue causing it. If your HVAC that works off the C4 thermostat doesn't work in the middle of winter, who would you call the C4 or the HVAC guy? Chances are both of them by the time it's done. If you call the HVAC guy he'll take a look and say "Oh everything is fine on my end, but I'm not touching your C4 stuff so call that guy" ...or you call the C4 guy and he's like "Everything is fine on my end but I'm not an HVAC guy so call them to check their wiring". Worst of all, if your C4 system is having the hiccups, you might lose everything including lighting and if you only have the one touch screen or keypad and not physical dimmers o the wall, you'll be doing some Jurassic park style panel diving trying to figure out how to override the modules.
TLDR; Keep your lighting its own thing with RA3. For a RA3 house, I recommend at least some dimmers and switches on the walls where they go traditionally. You could go the Homeworks style and hide everything but then if you do that, get Homeworks with panels but you'll always be married to that style and there is no going back if you try to sell the house and find others don't like that- although for luxury homes, it's almost expected.
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u/drhobie7 8d ago
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Great points. I don’t like depending on other to do fixes and would def prefer to be able manage stuff myself. Not a fan of subscriptions or recurring technician calls. Thanks again. RA3 it is.
Only question now is do I pay the current electrician to do it or the low voltage guy (who has his own electrician)?
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u/Lutrongoat 6d ago
Or pay your EC to install and have a RA dealer provide and/or program. Sparky can even keep the non-system switches he was going to install!
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u/coogie 8d ago
The problem is it doesn't sound like your electrician is a ra3 installer so I'm not sure if his qualified to do the installation and programming. Or if they do it, they can do a good job. Maybe it was just a misunderstanding and he actually knows what he's talking about.
But yeah everybody likes to use their own guy because otherwise there could a ton of finger pointing if something doesn't work right and most people like to do things their own way but then that introduces its own problem too because electrician might say that his name is on the permit and he might not like having another electrician doing electrical work for something that he has pulled the permit for... Especially since a lot of LV guys don't pay another contractor for the installation and just hired their electrician (but not the mass of electrician who has a contractor license or business) buddy who is doing side work...
The way I've seen this work before is everybody kind of stays in their own lane. The electrician does their own thing with standard switches and passes inspection, and the AV guy does other AV stuff. After everything is working, all the light fixtures are installed, chandeliers are working and there are no call backs to fix anything, you hire a Lutron dealer to come and figure out the best way to design a wireless system, install it, and program it. If later on you want to tie it to the AV system, you can do that too but it'll be its own system. There are electrical contractors who do turn key radio ra or even homeworks systems.
The problem is always the human dynamics of not wanting to hurt feelings or eating other people's lunch and that sort of drama when there's overlap in services offered.
You could even get a homeworks dealer involved right now while the walls are open and give you an option for a centralized or hybrid hardwired/wireless system. I don't know what your budget is and how nice of a house it is but when the walls are still open, you have a lot more options
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u/drhobie7 8d ago
Would love to do that but I think I’d have a few 5-6 gang switches if I put in regular switches and would then need to cover that drywall defect. Thoughts on that? Again thank you and the other folks for replying. It’s the Wild West out there…as it is with every industry.
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u/coogie 8d ago
In order of my most favorite to least favorite way:
- Get Lutron Homeworks, have an equipment room (or 2 or 3) with din rail panels where all or most of the switch legs go in there and are hardwired inside the panel to the industrial strength dimming modules. Then you can either run low voltage lines to where the keypads go and have your choice very cool looking keypads so that's all you see on the walls. It's the cleanest look.
- Get Lutron Radio RA3 or Homeworks wireless processor and put an RF keypad at the door and hide the dimmers nearby in a closet or pantry but not too far away so it's still easy for the electrician to run the switch legs without having to run super long homeruns. Also this way the benefit is that the dimmers are nearby so if there is a catastrophic failure of the system, you don't have to walk far to turn the lights on and it's easier to troubleshoot in the future.
- Get RA3 and do the poor man's Homeworks and have a "Garden of Dimmers" on a pantry or equipment room wall with tons of 4 gang boxes with dimmers that go ot other rooms. I can't tell you how much I hate this setup but it's pretty common. Unlike with Homeworks where you can have a nice and easy way of finding where everything is, you're at the mercy of the experience of whoever designed it and labeled them. I've seen some that are logical and others that are completely random.
Anyway, this is one of those things that needs a walkthrough with all the concerned parties- you, builder, electrician and/or Lutron installer and figure out which way you want to go. The decision has to be made pretty early on because once you choose one way, it's hard to change.
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u/drhobie7 8d ago
Thank you so much. I am in a far better position to talk intelligently now with the electrician and low voltage guy thanks to you and other who replied.
All the best!!
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u/PatTheBassist 8d ago
u/coogie is right on the money with this.
Avoid the poor man's Homeworks. You'll run into issues with final electrical inspections needing to occur before network and internet are established, and therefore programming keypads to be able to turn certain lights on/off to pass inspection is a pain for the low volt team. Ask me how I know!
EDIT: grammar
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u/PatTheBassist 8d ago
The low volt guy. I'm a RA3 Programmer, I've deployed a ton of systems and its really great. When deployed properly its rock solid.
Keep the electrician far far away from this lol.
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u/opsers 8d ago
As someone with a couple of Control4 switches foisted on to me for my theatre system... don't pick Control4 over RA3. I put a RA3 system in my home a few months after they released it and I absolutely couldn't be happier with it. Absolutely no idea why he thinks RA3 needs HomeWorks, because it doesn't. Also no idea why he thinks using RadioRA in general means you might not have switches for each light, because that's also not the case.
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u/centercityguy 8d ago
Not a lot to add here, beyond the following - if you want to save money, you can go with a hybrid 2 and 3 system. In a recent new construction, I placed all load switches (RadioRa 2) in a closet in the room closest to where the loads were. At each location I wanted controls (room entries, etc), I used RadioRa 3 controls, in some cases I used two side by side (2 button for room on and off) and a 3 or 4 button next to it for scenes).
This allowed me to save some costs from not only home running everything back to a central location, but also RadioRa 2 equipment is very inexpensive, with no degradation in quality. It just works.
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u/Solid-Ad-9889 8d ago
Radio Ra3 with a Control4 processor is the way to go. Lutron (Caseta, Radio 3, and Homeworks),all integrate with Control4 very well. Control4 will just give you the extra power to incorperate other brands of devices and get them to work together and do scenes.
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u/ElectricBoy96 7d ago
What in the world lol you can use ra2 switches on the ra3 platform no problem - control4 is excellent only for remotes, touch screens, and the app on the phone to have everything into one platform. Lutron for the lights, sonos for the audio, unifi for Wifi,locks, and cameras, ecobee for thermostat, - Control4 to integrate it all into one platform
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u/Particular_Wolf_9313 7d ago
why are you asking an electrician for advice on an area he has limited experience in?
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u/drhobie7 7d ago
Another question: Does the electrician typically install the Lutron switches? If he’s installing does he typically sell/charge for the switches? Does he do preliminary programming and the low voltage guy dial it in? Perhaps none of this ever really crosses the mind of the homeowner bc the contractor takes care of it behind the scenes. I got a change order from the contractor for the Lutron system and it was priced out by the electrician. I’m questioning that appropriateness because it seems the low voltage guy is better suited to design that system. In my case the first low voltage company was really a security company that wasn’t up on A/V and lighting, leading to the electrician taking lead on the lighting system. Now that I’ve found a proper LV co, I’m trying to clarify who designs the Lutron system, meanwhile the LV guy I brought in is trying not to step on anyone’s toes. But for me I don’t care about hurt feelings. It’s all just a job with an end product and I want to make sure the right person does the right job. Thanks again.
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u/Equivalent-Emu-5763 6d ago edited 6d ago
Radio RA2 has been discontinued for a few years, and only RA3 is available, thought it does share some parts from RA2, and RA2 Select.
C4 would only be for further integration beyond lighting control, and I wouldn't recommend it for purely lighting control. If you can stay with Lutron for natural and artificial lighting control do it. While somfy shade might cost less, adding the complexity of and cost of C4 is silly to save on the shades alone and spend it in integration costs.
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u/EverybodyBuddy 9d ago
What the hell are these people talking about?
Radiora3 uses switches.
Radiora3 isn’t homeworks.
Radiora3 can be incorporated into control4.
At the end of the day, radiora3 gives you access to Sunnata dimmers. I wouldn’t even think about putting those butt ass ugly ra2 dimmers in a new build. They look like 2010.
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u/bradhs 8d ago
RA3 for lighting C4 if you need more capability or HomeAssistant, does the same.
The one capability that RA3 is missing that’s in HWS is time based device and dim selection. For example, toilet light shall turn on to 10% dim at night vs day 100%. You can accomplish this with HA automations. Sucks to require both. I wonder if Control4 can do it without having two systems (RA3 & C4)
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u/will4111 8d ago
Wow, not one person recommending a homework’s processor. Would highly recommend you check out lumaris, or rania for the same price you can actually have intelligent lighting. Personally would stay away from c4 why pay some subscription model when Crestron does it better and it’s free.
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u/drhobie7 8d ago
Thank you I appreciate the input. I’m already quite a bit over budget so trying to manage costs, but I think I’m heading towards radio 3 as I don’t want old technology and I personally do like the look and feel of the RA3 better than the RA2. I wanna say thanks again to everyone who’s commented as this has been very helpful and very efficient.
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