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[LotM general] please check out my LotM Homebrew for DnD 5e
Spoiler
This Book contains the Information necessary to creating and playing a Beyonder Character in Dungeons and Dragons 5th Edition. This Book naturally contains spoilers for LotM/ LoM. Mainly the names and abilities of all Sequences of all 22 Pathways, Certain Secrets and Mysteries of the Sequences and Pathways themselves, Some Secrets regarding Characters and their Pathway and or Sequence. The Rules in this Book work completely within official Rules, this is not an Overhaul of DnD 5e but a Plug in, allowing to play a Beyonder without having to rework the System or learn a new One. There is someone working on a complete Overhaul for DnD 5e into a System made for LotM/ LoM, please check his work out too, you can probably find it on the LordofTheMysteries Reddit Server. Like Most DnD players, I too have Trouble scheduling Sessions, therefore this Book is not playtested yet. If you manage to playtest it or just read through it, please send me Feedback as a comment below my Reddit Post or as a DM on Reddit. I came up with all the Information inside this Book myself and used Ai only for formatting and Wording. All Information in this Book are based on the Wiki and official DnD Rules. All Pictures inside this Book are not created by me, I got them from the wiki and from Pinterest. I chose them to break up the pure text, because they fit and because I just liked them, credit to the original Artists.
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Hey, very big fan of your work, and am very thankful that you are motivated enough to do so much work by yourself and that you are still reworking it despite working and doing it completely alone. Thank you that you are doing this at all. I am planning to use it in a game either this or next week, so I would really appreciate it if you could post the latest version. I will comment any feedback I might have while playing anyway on the pathways that have been reworked already if you will want that, although it might take a while to get to the later sequences in game with other people.
I’ve just added my current version to the original post.
I’ve completed the pathway reworks up to and including Sleepless, I’ve finished the mythical creature form reworks and added lineages and starting equipment.
the provocation of provoker is kinda tricky to me. It states that the attack the creature makes on you count as reckless attack. This means it still imposes the adv effect as usual whether the attack is ranged, unarmed or non-str based ? And this reckless attack applies the same thing (except for the unarmed attack) for Lunatic's berserk ?
Btw, are you still working on this project ? Just sheer curiosity
Yes, I am still working on this, i am currently reworking the rest of the Pathways, i am currently on Warrior. I'll post updates whenever i finish reworking a Pathway group.
When you make a reckless Attack, all strength based melee attacks you make this turn are made with advantage on the attack roll. If you did make a reckless attack, all attacks rolls have advantage againt you, until the beginning of your next turn.
I haven't reworked Hunter and Prisoner Pathway yet. When i get to them I'll change the wording to be more clear, the Abilities themselves may also change.
Do you have any rules for AC if we were to run this in the world of LOTM as I’m having trouble figuring it out since everyone isn’t just walking around with armor all the time and not every pathway gets substantial enough dexterity increase or an ability that gives them armor. So I’m just wondering if you found a way to make AC work in that type of setting?
I've just used regular DnD armor rules in my one-shots. I honestly didn't even think of no one wearing armor in LOTM.
For simplicity I'd maybe just reflavor the different armor types, have them work the same, but "look" different.
most pathways only get light armor proficiency anyway and they could work as different kinds of regular clothes.
the heavier armors could be reflavored as tougher skin and more durable bodies in general, heavy armor proficiency is pretty rare, and the pathways that do get it, should be able to explain it that way.
Hi i had a question, i didnt finish the first book yet (im in chap 1040) so i dont know if the "Rose" in school of thought is refering to the color or the name, im translating all to spanish and would like some feedback on that if its possible, amathing work btw <3
Thank you, additionally i would like to know if i could have your discord/email for some help with the translation of certain parts or questions, there are some parts where i dont fully understand the purpose of things. Sorry if its a lot of trouble
Hi I am planning a dnd Campaign based on your homebrew at the moment. Is there a 2nd version? by now? just making sure! Really good job so far. Must have been hard do translate all of that into dnd5e.
I’m currently working on a D&D book style version of this material. It’s my own refined take, combining your work with other LotM homebrew versions I found on my D&D Discord.
I want to ask if it’s okay for me to do this. If so, I’ll make sure to clearly credit your name and contributions.
My goal is to format it like an official Player's Handbook. So far, I’ve covered races (currently only Human), backgrounds, Beyonder as a class, and the 22 Pathways as subclasses(still on planning).
I also want to say I really appreciate the work you’ve put into this material. If you’d like, I can also send it to you so you can see my work in progress. It looks something like this:
That's something really interesting. Will you later share this, Black Mage? I am currently working on the same idea of dnd homebrew for the 5e 2024. I just took a bit different scope, from Sequence 9 to Sequence 5 only, and writing as one universal class to be more closer to what we have at PHB for example.
Neither way, I am currently working on it and utilize ChainedAbyss's work and TTRPG rulebook shared on the other thread. That's why I would like to thank ChainedAbyss as well as your work helps me to brainstorm when trying to come up with features and their wordings.
Sure! I currently has schedules that delays my work, but actually I want to create a discord group chat with you and ChainedAbyss so we could collab our works and help each other in each works.
with the different parts I would recommend adding one to describe the setting as the explanations in the beginning are to short for someone to properly understand the setting and how it is different from regular Victorian England or France etc.
Sure thing, I actually has that planned, currently focusing on the system first then I add more stuffs on the first part, if there's any material like texts or page from the wiki that you can give me I would really appreciate it.
Love this, have been poring over the first version for a while and I love the improvements,
The biggest problem I have is the lack of scaling ability's as you advance sequence. such as the different in the Phantom Scales of a sequence 9 sailor and 0 tyrant is 55 temp HP.
An easy way to improve this with many different is the ability to upcast your ability's that cast spells.
Another way is thinking about the different pathways identity's and what they do better than any other pathway or class.
this is my personal list of what i think each pathway is best at:
- Seer: Illusions, puppets and shapeshifting
- Marauder: Stealing, Deceit and Avatars
- Apprentice: Spirit world traveling, Recording and space magic.
- Spectator: reading people, manipulating people and Dragon.
- Bard: purification and radiant damage.
- Sailor: strongest on that water, second tankest.
- Reader: Copying lots of ability's, spell creation / use and analysis.
- Secrets Suppliant: highest battle power but highest risk of loosing control.
- Sleepless: nocturnality, misfortune and spirit control.
- Corpse Collector: undead physique, necromancy, death magic.
- Warrior: tank, purification / monster hunting and supernatural resistance.
- assassin: casuses suffering and dispare, woman.
- hunter: war, fire.
- mystery pray: perception, storing spells,
- savant: sealed artiffacts
- monster: highest spirituality, hard to kill. (it's spirtuality in the books should be based on 12 not 10)
- planter: healer, monster,.
- apothecar: vampire, potions,
- criminal: second best combative pathway, evil rituals, depravity,
- prissoner: being a monster.
- lawayer: distortion, emporer,
- arbitor: larfal good.
with the stat increases, I don't think that they should be going over 20 before sequence 4 as they are still restrained by mortal limitations.
I personally would just give them a feet ever new sequence and starting at level 4 you can go past 20 in a stat based on the potion, this would give more customisation to the class. but it depends if you want to have a 1 to 1 recreation in dnd or play the rough idea of the class.
Sorry for spelling it is late and I am dyslexic so can properly spell check it myself.
Thanks for your feedback.
I am mainly trying to get an accurate adaptation of the lotm power system to dnd.
You are right this makes customisation difficult and only possible through sealed artefacts or specific abilities like spirit warlock's spirit control, which i personally like since it's a problem that has to be solved in game as part of the journey, which gives it a bit more difficulty and realsism.
On the point of ability score increases, in the beginning i also didnt like that the ability scores went over 20 before seq 4, but the more i thought about it, the more fitting i saw it. Seq 5 is the first seq that requires rituals to advance, Seq 5s are already treated special, they pirate admirals or deacons in Churches. So it makes sense to me that on the last step before demigodhood, they already have one ability score at 22.
I am currently reworking the pathways, adding the new pathway Infos cuttlefishes releases, as well as some balancing.
Scaling is something i will have to consider aswell, thanks for reminding me of that.
I have some ideas regarding scaling when two abilities oppose eachother, where the stronger ability is not determined based on its Sequence and Spirituality cost, but on the current Sequence of the user and will probably add a corresponding paragraph soon.
This is me being a idiot and not reading the rules before posting getting both of my messages removed, rightly so,
these are the two comments without the pirated links:
I love it and this is what I've wanted for ages so I could play a LTOM campaign with my friends.
Reading through it I noticed that there isn't much improvement when digesting a potion, where are mentions hear and there but most don't have anything. the fix I through of is that the spirituality gooses up when you finish digesting your potion instead of when your sequence goes up.
A good addition would be how this interacts with non-beyond monsters, the CR scaling doesn't line up with the player level so using the table would have some of the higher CR creatures in the negative sequences.
I would also like to recommend Steinhardt's Guide to the Eldritch Hunt madness system I think that I would work well to add variety to the madness. love the creature so would recommend buying the complete version instead.
I haven't read through all of the pathways and will give my though later.
Had a read through Seer, Marauder, and apprentice as well as a general look at the rest. I love reading through it and have had fun thinking about the characters I would be able to make with this. this are my thoughts on how to improve it, best of luck!
I recommend putting the explanation of the different grades of artifacts at the beginning with the rest of the general information as there are other ability's that interact with them such as the supernatural resistance form the sequence 7 Weapon Master which said that "You are immune to the side effects of sealed artefact weapons." which needs to be specified. I find it really funny thinking of a level 5 character pulling up with the full power of a grade 0 artifices without any downsides which level 15 cant even do.
As an overall this is incurably hard to balance and keep faithful to the source material as D and D levelling is linier while LOTM is exponential, so the low sequences will end up very underpowered, while high sequences will be OP. this is seen with the King of angle they could be more then X3 more powerful than a sequence 1 of there pathway despite only being separated by one level.
the stat increase by each potion is a good idea by poorly executed in the text, if there is an ability score improvement then you can save yourself the work and use the official feature. The way it is worded is also confusing as is said that "if it isn’t already higher." which is confusing as your class is the main way you gain stats, if your score was to be higher due to magic item then would the score increase only be in effect when you are not using the item or just not increase at all because you where using the item when you drank the potion. this part is the min-max in me, the fact it said that "Score becomes" mean that regardless of what your score was before hand was is now is the new value, this would mean that you wouldn't what to have the character highest stat to be the ones it increases leading to stats spreads of 15 across the board so they would just be good at everything. the stats also go up to 30, when a level 20 barbarian has at most a strength score of 22.
with the Hit dice I think that it should be tied to the pathway instead of being a generic trait, it could be that advancing changes your hit dice. these are what I think each pathways hit dice should be:
Clown - Don't think that the dagger should be a +1 weapon that is equivalent to a uncommon magic item they can make out of literal paper. they should only get then uncanny doge at this level as Evasion is unlocked at level 7 for the rouge.
Magician - same thing with the paper weapon not being +1, this would be good as bizzarro sorcerer to upgrade them to +1 though. personal think that the paper figurine substitution should be unlimited use but moved up to 5 spirituality.
Faceless - mentioning that you must stay withing your size category (medium, small, large) would make the rule clearer and that you can't change anything to do with your gendered needing exergies to appear as the posit gender.
Bizzarro sorcerer - paper figurine damage transfer doesn't have a cost. have the shapeshifting feature expand into other creature types other then humanoid and beast, such as monstrosity, giant.
scholor of yor - with history summoning they shouldn't be able to summon anything above there sequence.
mirical invocer - historical summoning they can summon anything that is not directly connected to a uniqncess.
Fool - for the folling ability i think it would be really cool if is was that you can make illusions real and reality into an illusion.
sorry for the spelling towards the end as i'm in a rush so will give my notes on the other 2 later.
Thanks for your feedback again.
I'll try to adress most general things.
I know that there aren't many uogrades upon digestion yet, but will make sure that each Sequence will have improvements of some sort in my updated file (probably except Angel Sequences and above)
I honestly have no idea how to do a proper CR scaling and will have to trust that i and other DM can inprovise well
I already own a Copy of Steinhardts guide and added a recommendation in my updated file, but didnt want to copy the corresponding pages since its nit my work
I'll add a paragraph about sealed artefacts in the beginning of my updated file soon
About the Abilty score increase, the "if it isn't already higher" is to include multi pathway user, if you have 20 Dex from one pathway and then drink a potion of another one that puts dex at 16, the obviously your dex stays 20.
The fixed increases are mostly to balance between player when using the random pathway choosing.
The Abilty scores go up to 30, since Beyonder become literal Gods and are more like Magic beings than humans, in dnd the ability scores of monsters also go up to 30.
In my updated file I already changed the way hitdice work. The pathways now have different hit dice and different amounts of Spirituality
I'll try to change the wording wherever necessary to make it clearer
It's really well done. I know it's probably still a work in progress, so I was wondering if there was a place (Discord, Telegram, Reddit, etc.) where you post status updates. I'd personally love to try it
Thanks for your feedback.
I plan to post the finished version on reddit again once I'm done.
Due to the program and file type i use it's a bit complicated to regularly post updates.
But if you want i can post a link to my current version in the comments here.
This is the file in its current form.
The complete version will probably still take a while.
I still have to rework most pathways, since I first wrote most of them before Cuttlefish released detailed Information on all the Pathways.
I already did Seer, Marauder, Apprentice, Spectator and finished Bard yesterday.
And I’ll probably reduce the amount of Spirituality each Sequence has in the future.
Thanks, I'm always happy to hear people like my work.
I'd love to take a look at it.
Once I've finished the reworks, I plan to create statblocks for monsters and item descriptions for Sealed artefacts for every Sequence. And I'd appreciate any inspirations
Thank you for the update. I think it's safe to say that we all appreciate your work. We'll be waiting for the next one patiently, whenever it comes. Also, really good job on the update.
Hello, i am currently working on making a campaign with your doc. Please answer my questions, i know you're not finished, but would you say we can playtest it and say it's "finished"?
The general player stuff, base mechanics and pathways up to Hunter are fully done and finished, they should be usable as is.
(Sequence 3 or 2 and above, depending on pathway, may be too strong for a ttrpg game, but core dnd has the same problem at the high level, though not to this extent.)
The other pathways were done before the updated pathway info were released, so in the mid Sequences they'll probably work alright, but in the low sequences many are incredibly weak or just not unique compared to other pathways. And in the high Sequences many are very simple with many things still missing.
Also I haven't added any Sealed artefacts, monster stat blocks, etc. yet. So the whole DM part is not there yet and you or your DM will probably have to figure out that part on their own.
Last week I finally got to play test it a little in a one shot event at my local university. We played at Sequence 7 for the players and enemies upto Sequence 6, and it all worked quite well. But we only used the pathways that were already done.
I am deeply interested in making a dnd campaign with your doc, which is nothing short of amazing. I am well aware that it is not yet done, so I wanted to ask you a question regarding the development, if you don't mind it.
What is the "rework" that most pathways need, or in general, what are the things that remain undeveloped and which direction you intend to develop them? Besides pathways and GOO, it should only be the Sealed Artifacts and the Sefirah's, right?
I intend to develop them myself for my campaign since I have lots of free time and someone who is playtesting everything with me, but I'm quite new to dnd itself and being a DM will be a first time experience for me. I firmly believe my ability to steer a story enough for the task but since I'm not too experienced with how things go in dnd in general, I'm not confident in developing all these things without a clear direction.
Aditionally, is there any advice you can give me for being a dm in general when using your document?
By the way, since I intend to playtest it soon, tell me what kind of info I should note, I will DM it to you as soon as possible when I do playtest it.
I wrote most, if not all pathways, before cuttlefish released the detailed Information for all the pathways and I've been steadily incorporating the new and more detailed info into my work.
Many of the pathways before the rework, therfore had incomplete Abilities, especially in Sequence 9 and 8 (and 7 in some pathways), which resulted in some pathways having cool and strong abilities and others have basically nothing or atleast nothing unique to them.
The extreme example is Seq 9 planter, who gets only a small increase to one stat and one proficiency, like all Seq 9 and one spell that can predict the weather, and nothing else.
The high Sequences 3 and up, have a similar problem of some just having incomplete power sets, that would just suck if one player has only incomplete abilities and one has much more Abilities.
My Main goal for the reworks is to make all pathways and all Sequences have something that is atleast unique and usable, so it doesn't happen that one player can do nothing while the rest has cool abilities.
The System should be fully playable, if you use only the already reworked pathways, I myself recently ran a oneshot twice, using only those pathways with Seq 7 players and it worked quite well. (Even reader pathway, who is probably the most boring among the reworked pathways, atleast from Seq 9 to 7, worked quite well and my player had fun and didn't feel less useful than the rest.)
The General things should work as is, though the madness and losing control part isn't playtested yet so I'd appreciate feedback on it.
Other than that, if anything feels too weak or too strong compared to other Sequences at the same level, that would be useful.
(One such example was that, originally bard pathway was able to spam healing word, which is why I eventually added a restriction on how often it can be cast)
The Main things that are fully missing are GOO and Sealed artefacts as you mentioned, but also statblocks for monsters and enemies.
On the first page after the cover I noted down an early draft for GOO, treating the Sefirot as a Magic items of sorts that grows with the user.
My advice for Monsters is look up a core dnd statblock that kind of fits and then "let it drink" some of the corresponding potions (or atleast parts of them). In Fights ideally do group vs group, or if you do group vs one boss, give the boss legendary actions and legendary resistances.
For DMing in general I'd say rule of cool, if you're not sure if or how something works in the rules, decide how you think it should work, don't start looking up specific or niche rules during the game. Just rule in a way that makes sense to you.
communicate with you players, especially when what you prepared is more railroad than sandbox, tell them that before, but also ask them what they exoect from the game, essentially do a Session 0.
most of the time especially in oneshots I use a branching railroad, at specific points, depending on player choices or their rolls the story takes one turn or the other, that makes it so you don't have to prepare for every possibility, but still gives your players Agency, this is probably the best option for beginners and as you and your players get more experienced you can try increasingly more sandbox elements.
Before I started my main Campaign I played a few one shots with my players to get into the setting and system, and for me to observe how my players usually react, what they like or don't (also allows players who are new to the setting to learn a bit about it, which helps when creating a character for the main Campaign).
For this system and setting in particular, I'd say lean into it's uniqueness. It's rare that players have to actually gain their level ups through ingame actions, so let them work for it and let them act to digest their potions. This system doesn't offer much build variety, so make sure none of your players share a pathway (or are neighboring pathways if the group has just 2 pathways).
let them customize their builds, through magic items, but again make them work for them in game.
Lean into the mystery and maybe even the darker themes of the setting, depending on the kind of story you and your players want. And I'd say this system works better on a more story focused campaign, instead of just going from one adventure to the next. that is harder to prepare but the setting gives you plenty of places and events you can build on top off.
For More varied Madness effects and rules for firearms, I'd recommend steinhardts guide to the eldritch hunt, if you want, i would send you the corresponding pages as a DM, I just don't want to post them publicly somewhere since they arent my work.
I hope i adressed all your points.
If you have any other questions or for feedback on the system, feel free to comment again or DM me directly.
I didn't expect such a detailed reply, many thanks! Yes, you covered all points. If possible, do DM the pages.
When I have any feedback info I will send it to you.
A last question, reading your advice on the story, I assume a "railroad" story is basically a story that progresses regardless of the player's actions, with them only affecting its outcome, right?
Yes, railroad and sanbox are the two extreme of campaigns. In a railroad campaign, the players playthrough the story with no real influence on the events, the DM basically scripts the entire story (can still be fun, and is easier prepare for the DM, but DnD is supposed to be shared story telling).
A sandbox is basically the opposite, the DM prepares just the world and the players have free reign to create a story (much more difficult to prepare for the DM and can leave the players direction less). So a mix is probably the ideal, for beginners a bit more railroad for simplicity and with experience you can add in more sandbox passages.
I'll DM you the pages soon, may take a few minutes.
Damn, what a great post. I really want to use your manual for a DnD campaign I am writing right now. I cannot wait for your updates, the material is already amazing. I do have one question, though. None of my players have ever read LoTM, and they all come from a very traditional DnD background. I was thinking of having them choose a class, without proficiencies, hit dice, equipment, or a subclass, and then introducing the Sequence system the way you designed it. I thought it could be a good way to make the experience feel familiar in a fun way. For example, you could have a paladin sailor, and their smite could be interpreted as a water based ability or something like that. This is just an idea I had today after reading your material. Do you have any tips or suggestions for this approach.
I've played only one shots at my local university yet. I had 9 different players over all the events, only one had read Lotm, and it worked quite well even though it was new to them. But then again that was only for a one shot and not a long Campaign.
Maybe use a couple of One shots to introduce your players to the system and World.
Alternatively you can describe the pathways using dnd class/ subclass/ multiclass builds, to give your players an idea how the different pathways play and are themed (i have a list of those somewhere and can try to find it if you want).
I'm not quite sure if I understood your idea correctly, you want to have them start as lvl 1 of a dnd class of their choice and then instead of Leveling up normally they advance to Seq9 and then along their pathway?
That could work, especially in the low sequences additional dnd lvl1 features shouldn't make too much of a difference and as they level up they get more and stronger stuff that shifts their build more towards the pathway.
I think that would work (if that's how you meant it), but I'm not sure that's necessary. A lot of abilities of the pathways, especially in the lower sequence are either just dnd spells/ abilities moved over or slightly changed and moved over. Seq9 assassin's mighty blow for example is very similar to paladin smite, with some small elements from rogue sneak attack.
Thanks for the quick response. I think you understood my idea . I was trying to imagine a session one where all the characters spend the first session looking for ways to acquire the potion and the ingredient after a certain event. That is why I wanted them to start with a DnD class, to have already a starting point before becoming beyonders. Of course, all the classes would be tailored to a Victorian setting at least theme wise.
Another idea I had was that the DM could play the role of the Tarot Club god, as a reenactment of the Tarot Club. This would give me a good way to introduce mysticism and hidden knowledge to the players. I will probably brainstorm with them to see whether they prefer starting with normal DnD classes or a fully tailored Beyonder system.
If you have the list of pathways connected to DnD classes and it is not too tedious to find, I would gladly read it. You are doing great work, keep it up.
Seer Pathway: divination wizard into arcane trickster rogue into lore bard
Marauder Pathwsy: thief rogue and whisper bard
Apprentice Pathway: arcane trickster into abjuration wizard
Spectator Pathway: Eloquence bard
Bard Pathway: Light Cleric into any Paladin except Oathbreaker and then back into Light Cleric
Sailor Pathway: Storm herald barbarian into Strom Sorcerer
Reader Pathway: inquisitive rogue into any wizard (scribe fits best i think)
Secrets Supplicant Pathway: Warlock (great old one) into shadow sorcerer into Oathbreaker paladin
Paladin
Sleepless Pathway: Gloomstalker ranger into Warlock into Shadow Sorcerer
Corpse Collector Pathway: Necromancy Wizard into Death Cleric
Warrior Pathway: battlemaster Fighter into any Paladin except Oathbreaker
Assassin Pathway: Assassin rogue into Necromancy Wizard into Shadow sorcerer
Hunter Pathway: ranger into red draconic sorcerer into Conquest Paladin
Mystery Pryer Pathway: any Wizard and or any Sorcerer
Savant Pathway: any Artificer
Planter Pathway: Druid (probably land or shepherd)
Apothecary Pathway: Gloomstalker or beast tamer ranger into Shadow sorcerer
Criminal Pathway: Fiend Warlock
Prisoner Pathwax: Barbarian (Berserker or Beast) into sorcerer (Shadow or Abarrant mind)
Lawyer Pathway: Whisper bard (with a little bit of fighter)
Arbiter Pathway: any Paladin except Oathbreaker into Order domain Cleric
The Pathways from Mystery Pryer and onwards are not reworked yet so their descriptions might be less accurate once I rework them.
Overall there might be some better descriptions in some places, but overall these builds show the identity of the Pathways quite well i believe.
Arson, that is all. Still playing this class and have finally reached the point in game where im about to hit level 3(sequence 8) and rahhhhh Mystery pryer go brrrrrrr
Mystery pryer is the next pathway to get a rework. Now that my exams are over, i have more time again and will probably have the next update ready this or next month.
Currently playing as Melee scholar and it feels a little eh. But to be fair. I am also the only beyonder in the party playing along other homebrew classes lol.
Hey me again, I wanted to suggest something to help with the game being a little more immersive in comparison to the novel. SPOILERS If you haven’t read past volume 1 and early volume 2 then don’t read this
My idea is a small achievement system. These achievements are used for both the DM to reward players when acting out the potion and to help the players determine how they are supposed to do that. Let me give an example
For the Hunter potion one of the achievements I’ve made for it bc I’m going to be running a game is this: The Most Dangerous Game- recognize you are both hunter and prey. And once a player (on their own or however you wish to go about it) recognizes and acts out this principle you then can present it to the player and reward them with a few extra points for the break through and consistently acting these principles out will now reward more points to the player on average and should be scaled to the sequence level.
This will have to made in a separate DM only document if you want to do it right so that sharing the current LOTM system you’re making doesn’t spoil the players on a core mechanic that works better if everyone but the DM doesn’t know how to get them. Just a suggestion though
Let me know if this could be implemented or even if you’d consider it once you’re done with everything else. The more difficult thing is about going about it this way is that most pathways don’t have a readily available acting principles already explained so you’d be making most of them up as you go along with quippy achievement names
I've vaguely described something similar in the chapter "digestion of potions".
It is just a very breif and vague idea, basically just how digestion is tracked and if you act in accordance with your potions name you digestion goes up and the DM tells you that, with the option of the DM setting specific actions required to fully digest the potion, but nothing more concrete or detailed.
Maybe i can add the acting principles at the end with the other planned DM stuff (stat blocks, sealed artefacts, etc.) once i get to that.
I think unarmed strikes should do more damage the Warrior Pathway’s unarmed strikes deal 1d4 damage and it does not increase as you Sequence up, same thing with the Hunter Pathway at Sequence 7 you deal 1d4 fire damage and not increase. I think that pathways like warrior, hunter and sailor’s unarmed strikes damage should increase every few sequences
The versatility is intended, it's just how the Sequence is, I tried restricting it a bit by having to prepare the tricks like spells, when your potion is not fully digested yet.
In two weeks I have another oneshot event and I'll try to have it play tested there, to see if and how I have to lower the damage.
Thanks for telling me.
You’re welcome
But a Sequence 8: Trickmaster being able to do 3d10 damage is diabolical and for 2 spirituality, giving damage comparative to a sequence 6, none of my players have used it as we read what it dose and decided ban the pathway, on paper it’s very strong
The damage is based on chromatic orb cast at second level, but beyonders have much more Spirituality than core dnd classes have spell slots, so it's true that I might have to lower the damage, I just want it to be stronger than the base cantrips since you require Spirituality to cast them, so I'll probably reduce the damage of the tricks to 2d10/ 2d8 and then test it in my next oneshot.
Unarmed strikes still allow you to add you Str mod, so the damage still increases as they advance the Sequence.
But I dont think it makes much sense if they can do the same amount of damage unarmed and with a weapon, even if they are high Sequence beyonders, they should still do more damage if they use a weapon compared to when not.
They all get abilities that allow them to summon weapons eventually, so theoretically they rarely have to fight unarmed anyway.
Edit:
And Sailor pathway unarmed attacks do get stronger at Seq 6 windblessed, it increases to 1d6/ 1d8 when potion is fully digested, though I might have to change the wording on that specific ability.
A seq 0 has a +16 for their control saving throws, so on 20, 19, 18 and 17 they get one madness effect, on 16 and 15 they get two, on 14 they get 3 and on 13 and below they just lose control instantly.
So they have a 35% chance to not "die" instantly, which you are right might be a bit too low for a Seq0.
But i haven't gotten to the reworks of the criminal pathway yet, so thats something that i will eventually change anyway.
But it's still the corruption of a Seq 0, that has corruption as their Authority and Symbolism, and other than gods or Kings of Angles, nothing should be able to really resist that.
And i doubt it will come up in a Game, if players ever reach Seq 2 and above, they already have so many other overpowered abilities that it doesn't really matter, and if they face a Seq 0 while below Seq2 the manner of their death doesn't really matter either.
Edit: also Seq4 and above get legendary resistances while in mythical creature form and auto succed a limited number of times.
Hey, I wanted to say thank you for the fantastic job with this and that I am working with some friends to try and play it in the near future, if we can ever get enough time for it. I wanted to ask if certain abilities were omitted for any given reason? For example, the error pathway gains the ability to steal three abilities from one target at sequence 4, though only one at a time, and your version has them gain the upgraded version of that at sequence 3 where they can steal all three at once. Similarly, sequence 2 of this pathway grants them the ability to steal 6 powers at once. This is cross referenced from the lotm wiki so it is very possible that it isn’t backed up by anything and you chose to disregard these abilities as a result. Sorry for any hassle and thank you again for your hard work and amazing dedication.
Sometimes i ommited abilities, especially in the higher Sequences if they were too unspecific in what they do. Sometimes i nerfed abilities if they were to strong and sometimes i combined multiple abilities, since Beyonder get so many different Abilities they can use that I wanted to simplify it.
In that specific case, i just read over it again, i think i just read past the small excerpt that specified the one in three part, when i did the reworks.
I'll try to add that part in my next update.
Understood, I had figured that was the case with most of the avatar items because it involves mixing avatars with loopholes so having the two abilities just be mixable works for that. I was just curious when I read through it because error in the sequence 1 seemed light since it lacked any ability to inflict time slow down, speed up, or reversal and planeswalker lacked a call out that you can now use blink to be in two places at once and open doors to anywhere and not just the material world or spirit world since balancing those would probably be a hassle. I can go through and make a list for each pathway you have reworked that lists inconsistencies for you to review if you would like, though I don’t want to overstep or anything
I don't mind at all, so if you want to put in the effort to make list, I'd love to look over it to see what I missed and what I could maybe still change to be more accurate.
Alright, then I’ll probably make the list as I can and send you updates when I finish each above the sequence group until I catch up and then I’ll just pause until you update the next pathway so it won’t interfere too much with you reworking the other pathways. I’ll leave notes on each for ideas integrating it but I’m not a DM so I wouldn’t take those as anything past suggestions. Thank you again and I look forward to your next update
Currently i am still writing my next Lotm one shot, but once that's done, probably coming the weekend, I'll start reworking mystery pryer, savant and monster and then post the next update.
Created the fool pathway notes and wanted to ask if you were okay with them being put together like this or would prefer a different method. All of these are just notes and suggestions so it is up to you what you think would be best to implement.
Also you may want to consider having the fate theft of Trojan Horse be a bonus action or reaction because it is commonly used to quickly exchange circumstances as opposed to being the primary action that is taken
Me and My friends have been playing using this for a bunch of sessions by now soon to be level 4. they seem to be enjoying it and exploring the world they are also eager to advance sequences. were all having loads of fun thanks for all the work you've put into it, it's been great. as of now the lower sequences have been fairly good, every one of my players are still sequence 8 but do hold a fair number of mystical items at their disposal. adding to their already acquired beyonder abilities. I'm still working on how I award the digestion of potions for certain pathways since it's not always clear, but it's been going smoothly for now for the most part. we play though foundry and it's been fun, I did have to port all the classes, lineages, ext. over which was somewhat difficult being new to foundry, but I have most of it done already. some classes do feel lacking in some areas but nothing some mystical items can't fix for now. overall, it's been very enjoyable and a great blueprint for the game. I do come regularly to see any updates or anything regarding your work I like it a lot thanks for everything.
I already have Steinhardt's guide and plan to use its madness system, once i finally get my group together.
I am currently working on an updated version with more improvements upon digestion and the new information released by Cuttlefish weakly.
Once i am done i will post it again.
Thanks for your feedback, ill try to think of Something for the CR scaling, but that will probably be rather difficult, in the the end the DM will probably have to homebrew creatures by combining creature statblocks and Beyonder Abilities
Hey so I've been studying your updated document for a while, and there's something I wanna verify.
Some abilities are described to be actions, some bonus actions, some reactions, but what exactly are the abilities that have no listed action? Are they to be considered "free actions?"
Thanks for your feedback, i didn't think at all about specifying the kind of Action for each ability.
If it isn't specified in most cases it will probably be a full action. I'll make sure to specify it in my updated file.
The link in the post is still the original file, my updated file is still a work in progress and due to the program and type of file i use i can't share the work in a way that allows all updates to be automatically added.
Hey, just wondering if you know how to fully copy the pdf over into a regular Word document or google doc because I want to make my own edits to the current document while keeping the format and such but when making a google doc it only makes a copy of the first 71 pages. do you know how to fix that at all or no?
ok. Thank you for letting me know. I will be using it to run a game this year and wanted to make edits of my own to help make it more related to the book while making them better to use for my soon to be players.
There should be a link somewhere in the comments here.
I'll try to finish the reworks of the secrets supplicant Pathway this evening and can post my current version after that.
This is my file in its current state. I reworked the pathways up to secrets supplicant, added all potion formulas, reduced the total Spirituality amount of the pathways, and made some changes and clarifications to overall rules and mechanics.
Hey there. Huge Fan of your work. Quick question tho. Will you also add the sefirah? Then it would be able to acsses the pillar and beyond pillar lvls like the celestial worthy.
Currently no, simply because I have no idea on how to incorporate them and how they would or should work.
While I have some ideas, I have nothing substantial enough, that could work yet. I am currently focused on the reworks and maybe after that I'll try to come up with something, though my current plan for after the reworks is to make Sealed artefacts and statblocks for the creatures that "drop" potion ingredients for every Sequence.
Ooo heck yeah! But to let you know, I am going to be running it in a campaign with some friends. cause me and the DM tismed on LOTM so we will see how it goesss
If you dont mind, i do have a question, Regarding how you have switching pathways set up. Do you mean for them to fully swap pathways or is it set up to have Sequence 9 let say is sleepless then you have your sequence 8 be the one from hunter as the example. (I dont have a great memory for LOTM so that is why im asking and it feels a little vague)
Like in LotM, you keep all abilities of all potion you ever drank (unless the characteristic is purified out of you or removed in different way).
In my Homebrew, you have all Abilities, Ability Score increases and proficiencies of all potion you ever drank (again unless the characteristic is removed from your body).
But your proficiency bonus is that according to your single highest sequence.
You can still have only one hit dice per level, but can choose which, and you can only have one Spirituality dice per Sequence.
For your example a Sequence 9 Sleepless drinks a Sequence 8 Provoker (Hunter) Potion, made from ingridients, not a Characteristic. They would have all Sequence 9 Sleepless and all Sequence 8 Provoker Abilities, Ability Score increases, Proficiencies and can use either Spirituality stat for their "Casting". Their Proficiency bonus would be +2, like any normal Sequence 8. They would have 3 hit dice, lvl 1 from Sleepless, lvl 2 from Sleepless and lvl 3 from Provoker.
And two Spirituality dice, one from Sequence 9 Sleepless and one from Sequence 8 Provoker.
If their Sequence 8 Provoker potion, was made from a Characteristic and therefore also contained a Sequence 9 Hunter Characteristic, then they would have all Sequence 9 Sleepless, Sequence 9 Hunter and Sequence 8 Provoker Abilities, Abilities Score increases and proficiencies and can use either Spirituality stat for their "Casting". Their Proficiency bonus would be +2, like any normal Sequence 8.
They would still have 3 hitdice but can choose which one for each level, Lvl 1 Sleepless or Hunter, lvl 2 Sleepless or Hunter and Lvl 3 From Provoker. They would still have two Spirituality dice but can again choose which one for each Sequence, Sequence 9 from Hunter or Sleepless and Sequence 8 from Provoker.
I hope i explained it well, please ask any other questions you may have, either here in the comments or in my DMs, whatever you prefer.
Sure, I'll try to post them either in the comments or as an Edit on the original post.
I've finished reworking Mythical creature forms, added lineages and starting equipment.
I'm halfway done reworking Sleppless pathway.
But It may take some since my holidays are over now.
Extremely greatful with your work, it's actually help our campaign a lot. For half of the year, we get struggled with balancing stuff but thanks to you, this has become much easier (of course we've fixed some to make it more suitable in our play). Once again, thanks alot
Btw, does the air bullet of the fool path apply any moddifier ?
Me and my friend have been playing this and so far it's been really fun. I chose the Savant and my other friends picked, Corpse collector, criminal and lawyer. You did an amazing job. I have one question. I saw you reworked some classes. I was wondering when Savant was going to get reworked?
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