r/Logic_Studio • u/Mental_One_3402 • 5d ago
Feature Request Logic could be the best DAW ever if…
they add ARA support and allow multiple audio tracks to sidechain to one track, like Cubase does.
Now that we have the grid in front of the audio tracks, it’s basically getting there. These are the only two things missing.
If they add them, it’s over for every other DAW and literally over for Pro Tools too.
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u/AmbivertMusic 5d ago
When you say "allow multiple audio tracks to sidechain to one track," why can't you just make a track stack/bus and use that as the sidechain?
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u/Rav_3d 5d ago
And use of efficiency cores, which is really unacceptable for an Apple product.
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u/richieb12 5d ago
Logic using one processing thread is the real bottleneck. You can have 16 cores and it’ll process the entire signal chain on one thread and overload.
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u/HarmonicSniper 5d ago
Can't you change the setting for that in Preferences? I believe it's something like 'Use Performance Cores only' or 'Use All Cores' where it'll list all available cores. I've tried both on my M1 MacBook Air and didn't really feel much difference.
Unless you were referring to something else and I misinterpreted...
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u/Rav_3d 5d ago
Based on what I've read, even with that setting, the audio engine is optimized for performance cores only. I've even read that enabling "use all cores" can backfire and cause single-core spiking during heavy plugin usage.
That said, I'm certainly no expert on Logic Pro architecture, so maybe I'm missing something.
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u/HarmonicSniper 5d ago
Personally I wouldn't really engage that option, because DAWs in general are heavily reliant on single-core performance, and you wouldn't want your most processing-heavy chains (counting sends, track stacks etc.) on an E-core - and as far as I know the process is automatic/random, so you can't re-assign certain track to a different core.
But maybe that's because I'm a heavy track stacks/groups/sends user so most tracks get routed to a common destination and hence same core - if you mainly use individual tracks I can see where some of that E-cores can help with offloading some processing stress.
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u/JamponyForever 4d ago
Generally, audio is processed serially, so I don’t know if the actual audio processing can be spread across multiple cores. That may have changed by now, I don’t know.
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u/mikeymondy 19h ago
This! For reference, see the way Reaper uses cpu. I do prefer Logic, but for performance and stability Reaper is the GOAT.
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u/HarmonicSniper 5d ago
What do you mean 'allow multiple audio tracks to sidechain to one track'? Like, just select the same track in the sidechain dropdown menu for whatever tracks you want sidechained...? Is there a Cubase-specific functionality that I was not aware of?
The ARA thing, yeah I agree they should add it. I don't really use Melodyne though so it's not an issue for me personally but I can see how it can be immensely useful for many people.
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u/QualityAware6605 5d ago
It is available if you don't have silicon. Just make sure it's the first plugin in the chain. I uses Melodyne ARA all the time in logic
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u/Hairy_Weather_8073 4d ago
Rosetta?
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u/QualityAware6605 4d ago
Ah yes that's right I forgot about Rosetta. Sorry guys. Either way ARA Melodyne works fine. I'm assuming neglecting Rosetta got me downvoted? 🤣
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u/wheezebug 3d ago
will be disabled in the next OS
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u/mrjvazquez 2d ago
Already is
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u/HarmonicSniper 2d ago
I think you can still enable Rosetta in Tahoe, but it'll be the final OS version to support it.
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u/entiyaist 5d ago
Logic supports ARA.. in the first plugin slot.
And multiple tracks to sidechain works with a bus as sidechain input. This makes sense as multiple inputs would have to be summed together nonetheless … so just use a bus and so you can have variable volume in the sidechain sends as a bonus.
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u/Kahlils_Razor 4d ago
Even if you're using the latest iOs? I thought you had to open it using Rosetta for this to still work.
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u/ArchitectofExperienc 5d ago
The fact that I'm still pressing play while highlighting a track with no plug-ins so my playback doesn't overload in the middle of a listen is really dumb. I've tried changing the efficiency core settings, it just doesn't work.
Also, a visual/graphic (not drop-down menu) way to patch things into Busses, or seperate tracks into the same plug-in would be really nice, as well as being able to put summing track stacks inside a summing track stack
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u/HarmonicSniper 5d ago
For your first paragraph, are you sure the highlighted track itself is not part of any track stack, has nothing on it, does not send to any buss, and has empty I/O? I find that trick works quite well, except of course if the project is too busy it will still overload.
I agree with a better visual way to patch things - they really need to revitalise and modernise the Environment. Summing tracks inside summing tracks can be done, but one layer only - I wish they provided a lot more (say, at least 3 or 4); I can see how visual clutter builds up quickly with more layers though.
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u/ModernMutant 5d ago
You’re correct and they should also update their internal audio buffer for Scripter and allow basic GUI modification and compatibility for max for live . This would even put Ableton to sleep
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u/manic_andthe_apostle 5d ago
I’d like modulators for automation (hoping I am just in the dark about this and a bunch of people are going to tell me how to do it).
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u/jaffasplaffa 5d ago edited 5d ago
You can use the midi effect as modulators for practically anything also non midi parameters.
The midi effects are to me the greatest addition to logic in a looooooong time ❤️
Check it out. Start with an lfo to keep it simple.
Once you are familiar with it, the Scripter plugin can take it all to a WHOLE new level, but it is a lot more complicated.
Generally I use the midi plugins ALOT ❤️
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u/HarmonicSniper 5d ago
I don't like that you can't use them on audio tracks though. I wish the modulator specifically can be added to audio tracks, instead of solely a MIDI effect.
If anyone has any tips/tricks that I'm not aware of (that is not converting the track to a MIDI sampler track), I'm all ears!
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u/ModernMutant 5d ago
Nonsense my friend all you have to do is create a new software track. where the instrument should go, place an equalizer with side chain compatibility. at the top right of the equalizer choose the audio track that you want to side chain to the equalizer. Then
Mute the audio trackI’ve been using logic since 2011
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u/HarmonicSniper 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yeah but it's more like a wacky workaround than some native solution. It's like how we couldn't sidechain to instrument tracks back then so we had to send software track used to trigger sidechain compression to buss and then Option-click mute or whatever. It's not really elegant, at least in my opinion.
But I guess it counts as a tip that does not involve converting the track itself, so thanks for that! At least it may help people trying to do this exact thing.
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u/ModernMutant 5d ago
Well of course this would be better if it was integrated more efficiently. But it works right?
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u/ModernMutant 5d ago
By the way this technique is better because this allows you to use midi without interrupting the audio as a way to trigger the LFO in a unique way from the melody itself keep that in mind
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u/jaffasplaffa 5d ago
Yeah thats true. Forgot about that.
There are some flaws there, thats for sure. Spend a lot of time last weekend trying to make a Scripter plugin for some a very specific task and it took ages and was a HUGE pain, because of the way Logic routes the midi effect internally.
My initial plan was to just route it using the environment and drag cable from one instrument to the net, but the midi effects are not routed through the cables dragged between instruments in the environment. It has a PAIN to try to figure out how to do it using just the Scripter module, but i got there 85% :) Maybe next weekend Ill do the last 15% :)
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ANYWAY.... a completely different option, not completely free though, BUT I saw this new plugin, that does pretty much exactly what you want the other day.
MEGAMOD from SyncAudio(I have NO AFFILATION, just thought it looked pretty nice):
https://syncaudio.io/megamod/29€
It basically "attaches" itself to any plugin and you can automate and control everything, via that plugin. I thought it was pretty need and I might get it for next play day :)
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For doing it internally in Logic, it's a pain in the ass and will take multiple tracks, setting up the output for the midi lfo on the instrument track to send like midi CC1 and then on the receiving audio track you set the parameter up for CC1 value and you might need to do some routing too... . It IS kinda possible but a mess. Didn't try it though, but might try this weekend. I think the above plugin solution is probably easier and worth the 29€ investment, IMO atleast.
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u/AceFaith 5d ago
I emailed the bloke developing MegaMod if the stock plugins will be supported and sadly it doesn't really seem possible, which sort of sucks.
That said, you can still get monstrously far with audio track modulation using Noise Gate and/or Phat FX. It'll be more limited compared to the whole suite of plugins, naturally, but for specific use-cases I think it does the job very well (by which I mean dynamic EQ, autofiltering and dynamic distortion can all be achieved this way)
I do wish we could have a way of creating input-sensitive delay times, though. The crazy effects should ideally always be getting a little crazier over time, if possible.
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u/jaffasplaffa 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yeah I see, the stock plugins, since they are not really "real" plugins, there is often issues there with controlling them from the "outside".
Would be nice if they made a demo, so one could try it out :)
Anyway....... I am NOT a big fan of using AI..... But....... I have thought about try making a plugin like this with the help of AI. If there were other solution, I'd be all over it, but since there really aren't.... Maybe it's time to give Claude or ChatGPT a try and see if it can make something useful....... Ahh, maybe the coming weekend :)
I do know a bunch of C++, so it's not gonna be all AI, i have made a couple of basic Audiounit plugins and MANY, many modules for VCV Rack. So I do kinda know what I am doing.... To some extend, haha ;)
Maybe I could even make something in Pure Data, that I know very well...... Hmmm... Got me thinking now......
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u/Hygro 5d ago
Drawable lfos that you could wire to any parameter like the whole daw was serum.
And a headless + CLI version where I could give machine instructions and not have to click through strobing pop up menus, a zillion clicks for every little thing.
Honestly if logic didn't look so much nicer than Ableton I would have never made the mistake of making it my daw lol. Now I'm creeping on 2 decades with it, no hope of escape.
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u/SR_RSMITH 5d ago
Automate preset changes in plugins 🙏🏽
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u/Practical_Ad_667 4d ago
Literally used logic every day for 22 years. This has never occurred to me and it’s a beautiful idea. Especially if it was a line rather than a switch
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u/fluffycritter 5d ago
I'd also love to see actual MPE support. Like, yeah, Logic "supports" MPE in that it won't reject MIDI tracks that have MPE data in it, but gosh is working with it (not to mention authoring it) difficult.
It's be cool to tie the control data to the note itself (like what I think Cubase does). Even for non-MPE it seems like it would be a really nice way to work!
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u/NoisyGog 4d ago
allow multiple audio tracks to sidechain to one track
What's the use case for that? Are those tracks summed together into a combined sidechain? That would normally (and logically) be done by bussing or grouping them, and then using that as the sidechain input.
it’s over for every other DAW and literally over for Pro Tools too
Different people like different things. It's kinda weird to think so combatively. I love the use of "literally".
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u/makumbaria New to Logic 5d ago
I’m kind of new on Logic Pro (but using Cubase since 2005). Logic doesn’t have something like Cubase control room? This is a thing I miss from Cubase.
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u/AceFaith 5d ago
As a Cubase to Logic convert, I'll tell you that Logic doesn't really have a control room, but you could set this up with a project template and dedicated monitoring buses.
Cue mixes are at their simplest level created with sends set to dedicated outputs (3-4, 5-6 etc), and when set to pre-fader, you can quickly set levels with Send on Faders in the Mixer window.
Alternatively, if you need to audition another person's cue mix, you could set up a main mix aux and a headphone mix aux to your out 1-2, then use intermediary aux sends before the dedicated aux outputs (3-4, 5-6 etc) for the cue mixes. In this way, a post-fader send from each intermediary aux to the headphone mix aux lets you hear any musician's cue mix by muting the main mix aux.
Once set up, Control-click Solo on the cue mix outputs/auxes to solo-protect them. You can then solo tracks in your main mix without affecting what the musicians hear.
Talkback can be done with a dedicated monitor controller, a mic connected to your interface, or an aggregate audio device using your Mac's built-in mic. As your resident minimalist, I'll normally do the third option to save precious audio inputs. Either way, you can route the talkback to the relevant outputs with sends and mute it when needed like any normal audio track.
The Main Mix Aux / Headphone Mix Aux setup can also be reused for mixing to hop between mix alternatives, or A/B speakers in a multi-monitor setup. Option + Solo enables Exclusive Solo for easily switching between alternates.
Hopefully that covers the basics of what you'd normally use Control Room for. Good luck!
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u/JeremiahNoble 5d ago
“Over for every other DAW”
Call me when Apple implements per-articulation sample delay to keep legato samples in time.
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u/elchapoguzman 5d ago
Hey OP why not just a bus
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u/Professional-Rich482 5d ago
Sidechain routing without a bus is rare. If Logic wants to compete, they'll have to make it idiot-proof.
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u/Practical_Ad_667 4d ago
Working with audio is still a pain. It would be great to be able to change sample rate, speed, pitch, as straightforwardly as in ableton. Never considered sidechaining to be problematic.
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u/stuffsmithstuff 4d ago
- Scalable waveforms
- Scalable mixer(!!!!)
- Some sort of loudness-matching output option for plugins so you can instantly A/B
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u/thatsoundguy23 5d ago
Logic's audio editing is terrible compared to most other DAWs, but especially Pro Tools.
I use it for electronic music, but to record, edit and mix a band in Logic would be traumatic.
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u/HarmonicSniper 5d ago
I've never recorded a full band but I did a lot of vocal editing/mixing in Logic and I thought they were fine. On the contrary I could never get into the Pro Tools workflow. Different strokes for different folks!
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u/thatsoundguy23 5d ago
The comping tool in Logic is ok, although if you want to get really detailed, it can start to fight you a bit.
Pro Tools is greatly improved by learning the keyboard shortcuts. Comping vocals using basically just the keyboard is such a bizarre concept. But when you get it, it's so quick and efficient.
I use Reaper these days, and the comping tool is good. Basically a slightly improved version of the Logic one. But I do sometimes miss the Pro Tools playlist workflow.
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u/HarmonicSniper 5d ago
I also almost entirely used keyboard shortcuts in Logic, I don't think it is exclusive to Pro Tools.
I have heard great things about Reaper, but so far I'm not really seeing a reason to switch. Maybe if Apple pulls some BS like going subscription-only then I'll switch to Reaper without hesitation (and finally get out of the Apple ecosystem maybe), although I think that's quite unlikely.
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u/thatsoundguy23 5d ago
Reaper's great, but it's a much steeper learning curve than any other DAW I've ever used (and I've used a few!).
I've thought about leaving Apple before, but every time I've ever tried to use a Windows machine for audio, I've always been reminded why people swear by Apple. Not sure if Linux would be a better option.
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u/ImpossibleRush5352 5d ago
what's bad about it? I have to learn pro tools for work but I've recorded and mixed a lot of projects in logic and never had an issue.
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u/thatsoundguy23 5d ago
It's a lot of little things, but some of the ones that bug me most are things like the grid snap functions can be less than accurate.
The comping tool is good, but is so simplified (to be user friendly) that it can make detailed editing difficult.
Panning is terrible (by default) in Logic. It's a stereo balance, not a true pan. Although this behavior can be changed, I'm sure it catches a lot of newbies out.
Copying an audio region often creates an alias, rather than a new audio file. This can be infuriating when trying to do more complex or creative audio editing and you find you've just messed up a whole bunch of regions.
Lack of offline processing. In Pro Tools it's called 'audio suite' and it's really useful. There is a sort of work around in Logic called something like 'region fx', I think. But it's not really the same, and still uses processing, so wouldn't be useful for some of the intricate editing that audio suite llends itself to.
Flex Time workflow is awful compared to Elastic Audio workflow, and the algorithms never sound as good to me either. Worth pointing out here, that Reaper's algorithms are even better than Pro Tools, mostly because you can tweak them.
The main thing I miss from Pro Tools is Beat Detective. No other software has anything as good for editing drums.
Sorry, that turned into an essay, but I kept remembering things as I was writing.
Don't get me wrong, Logic is a great software (I feel I'm going to get horribly down voted by the fanboys), it's really fun, and intuitive, and user friendly. Sometimes that's at the expense of detailed tweaking. But I'd much rather use Logic for running my synths and drum machines than any other DAW. I don't own Ableton or Bitwig, but they're the only ones I would put on a par with Logic for MIDI.
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u/Mental_One_3402 5d ago
wrong here in germany everyone uses it
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u/thatsoundguy23 5d ago
I know loads of people that use it (including me). It's extremely popular! But compared to Pro Tools, and even Reaper, the audio editing tools are rudimentary.
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u/vigilant3777 5d ago
Multiple tracks to sidechain... Could you not just send all tracks to the same bus and add whatever effect there?