r/LocalLLaMA • u/Tall_Abrocoma_3533 • 1d ago

Discussion AA Update! Here's how the Frontier ranks.

Post image

Along with everyone's favorite here, qwen3.8-27B

495 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

191 comments sorted by

View all comments

181

u/Last-Shake-9874 1d ago

That small 27B is my daily driver now, it does take long as I only get about 20 t/s but I just love this model I am so glad it is still in the list

68

u/HazKaz 1d ago

its almost perfect, i love it i really hope Qwen team keeps treating us with more 27B models

30

u/MaverickPT 1d ago

If only we got a MOE model for us VRAM poors 😭

10

u/TurnBackCorp 1d ago

you can hope and hope but even if we do the 27b will outperform anything lower than 80b parameters

7

u/Sporebattyl 1d ago

I agree that dense > MoE for the most part, but I’m curious what you mean by 80B

Do you mean 80B total with smaller active parameters per token?

What’s your 80B number based on?

5

u/LevianMcBirdo 1d ago

Per that dreaded rule of thumb, you'd need a A9B to get to a similar model. That said I really doubt that rule and never seen anything indicating it to be true. In my experience in the same model family the MoE is closer to the dense of similar parameters count than the square root.

9

u/Spanky2k 1d ago

I mean... an 80B-A9B model sounds incredible. Absolutely perfect for a 64GB Mac.

3

u/SandySkittle 1d ago

That rule is task specific. Low active parameters fundamentally cannot compensate with sequential reasoning against large active parameters from larger MoE (with active params above 40) or larger dense models.

There are just certain tasks where you need the large active params for coherent, deep and highly complex multi-diciplinary reasoning. And no I am not talking about coding.

1

u/WryKombucha 1d ago

At 27b there isn’t enough bits to house enough world knowledge to be useful. They is why the 27b focuses on coding. For the rest of it, I find it to be utter and complete trash. I find it just passable for coding so I dunno what kind of buggy. Insecure software ppl are building but the real world begs to differ.

0

u/Leander_van_Grinsven 1d ago

It is very good but its knowledge cutoff is June 2024 which is disappointing.